Author Topic: Leonor Cipriano, her confession and subsequent silence in the killing of her daughter Joana.  (Read 60008 times)

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Offline misty

Had Leonor alone confessed I would have been just a tad sceptical but both of them independently told stories which converged.  To be honest I still am not sure which one of them was the actual killer, certainly they both played a part in Joana's demise.

Don't you even want to consider the 3rd option - that she was sold, as stated in one of the "confessions"? The lack of a body & substantiating forensics indicating foul play supports that scenario far better.
The recent case of toddler Daniel Abreu & the as-yet-unproven accusations of "trafficking to England for  €50000" show the mindset of the Portuguese.

Offline Anna

Why would she confess ,If as some say she had already confessed at some time earlier? Because she hadn’t already confessed? Press reports were all the information available to anyone.
 A lot of lies and extreme pressure to condemn Leonor, through tortured out confessions and from people at the time of press releases and the trial IMO. …Not her lies!.
The other “sold” confession, was thrown out of court and I believe this confession was a ploy to have the sentence reduced.
 I would try anything too, to get out of prison......How about you?
Her family probably didn't want her back for a break or xmas, because they knew that they would be plagued by the media, which is totally understandable after what they had gone through. Leandro's family had suffered substantial losses in their business and had to hire a lawyer  for themselves because of assaults on two of their sons and an employee . The abuse then stopped. I guess they used other methods after that to get the required responses. Only my opinion of course.

Leonor's testimony in the torture trial admitted that she did not recognize the accused. She had told them that at an inquiry years previous. Nothing new and not lies. There was no evidence of a crime and the only confession that I know was accepted, was the video made of Joao, reconstructing the murder. Since the court believed he could not have done it alone, it was taken as a joint confession with him as co author.

In press reports.....Leandro said there was tuna and milk in the house already. ........No receipt was found?
Was Joana sent out, because an aggressive  argument was going on with Joao and herself.......Joao was threatening , even to his own mother

In press reports.....Leandro said that he never had a saw. So why is it reported otherwise?

In press reports.....Leandro said that Leonor couldn't even clean and quarter a chicken......... How could she butcher her child?



23 feb 2008
Case Joana
Judicial Inspectors will even the trial by
Paula Martinheira23 February 2008Comment on

Five agents are accused of torture to Leonor Cipriano, to bring her to confess the death of her daughter. Goncalo Amaral, who is leading the investigation of the case Maddie was composed accused for not having denounced the case; he was also responsible for the investigation of the disappearance of Joana.


The five inspectors of the Judicial Police (PJ) accused of crimes of torture, falsification of documents, false witness and omission of aid about alleged assaults on the Leonor Cipriano, to lead her is to confess the form which she will have murdered her daughter Joana , in September 2004, were pronounced by the judge of instruction Ana Lucia Cross to go to trial. Joao Grid, lawyer of the girl's mother, believes that the decision will influence the revision of the trial process of Leonor.

Already Paul Christopher, one of the accused, believes that behind the pronunciation is a "clear willingness of some people to control the PJ and ending with the same".  In declarations to DN, one inspector says that "there is a certain number of people in Portugal,  already identified, which have even been gleeful of contentment with the news of the trial", thus ensuring that, "to his time, these people will be condemned".  For Paul Christopher, this is "clearly a political process, already that flees strictly judicial sphere".  "The PJ has to be the target of multiple attacks in recent years. For some reason there are several processes of torture taking place against inspectors".

Also Antonio Pragal Colaco, his lawyer and the defendants Leonel Marques, Paulo Marques Good and Antonio Cardoso, all of the Central Directorate for Combating Banditry, said the DN not be "surprised" with the pronunciation for judgment, since "the inspectors are to serve as scapegoats to satisfy claims of some political classes", contended. Arguing that, "if the indictment focuses on obtaining a confession on October 14, 2004, then it must be consistent with itself and release ,Leonor Cipriano".

The fifth accused in this case, by not having denounced the case, is Goncalo Amaral, coordinator until October 2007 the Department of Criminal Investigation (DIC) of Portimao and leader of the research about the disappearance of Maddie. On 14 October 2004, the date on which the MP of Faro believes they have occurred the aggressions to Leonor Cipriano, at premises in PJ (and on the same day that she will have confessed that she killed her daughter and has torn the body), Amaral was responsible for the investigation of the disappearance of  Joana. The DN, his lawyer, Antonio Cabrita, said that the decision of the judge was expected, criticizing the fact that the process has been called by district attorney of Evora MP "too much time".
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.pt%2Fespeciais%2Finterior.aspx%3Fcontent_id%3D1006737%26especial%3DCaso%20Joana%26seccao%3DSOCIEDADE

http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006737&especial=Caso Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Benice

What's the point Carana, they both confessed to the murder.  Talk about flogging a dead horse!

The main reason I don't think the killed Joana is because there is no credible reason that I can think of why - having confessed to murder, they should then  both refuse to say what they did with the body.   If they had already confessed to the major crime, then why not divulge what they did with the body.    It makes no sense for them not to.

IMO the reason they did not say - (even after the most horrendous  torture),  where the body was =  is because they simply didn't know - because Joana had been abducted.    What other reason could there be?






The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mr Gray

What astonishes me with the cipriano case is that the PJ were happy for cipriano to appear in court with a face that looked as though it had been in a car crash...they knew they were above the law and would not face justice. their excuse...she had fallen down the stairs...Although the court accepted she had been beaten in custody it could not be decided who had beaten her...so as they knew...they could beat with impunity
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 02:50:02 PM by Admin »

Offline Wonderfulspam

What astonishes me with the cipriano case is that the PJ were happy for cipriano to appear in court with a face that looked as though it had been in a car crash...they knew they were above the law and would not face justice. their excuse...she had fallen down the stairs...Although the court accepted she had been beaten in custody it could not be decided who had beaten her...so as they knew...they could beat with impunity

And Joana's abductor remains at large, doesn't he, she or they.

The PJ never found that Hacksaw the abductor stole either.

The injustice.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 01:26:26 PM by Wonderfulspam »
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

ferryman

  • Guest
What astonishes me with the cipriano case is that the PJ were happy for cipriano to appear in court with a face that looked as though it had been in a car crash...they knew they were above the law and would not face justice. their excuse...she had fallen down the stairs...Although the court accepted she had been beaten in custody it could not be decided who had beaten her...so as they knew...they could beat with impunity

That is (one of!) the astonishing things about that conviction.

The court was satisfied that Leonor (at least!) had been beaten in police custody, yet still held that the conviction was safe ...

Offline John



João and Leonor Cipriano faced trial for murder and concealing a corpse.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 02:38:21 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

The main reason I don't think the killed Joana is because there is no credible reason that I can think of why - having confessed to murder, they should then  both refuse to say what they did with the body.   If they had already confessed to the major crime, then why not divulge what they did with the body.    It makes no sense for them not to.

IMO the reason they did not say - (even after the most horrendous  torture),  where the body was =  is because they simply didn't know - because Joana had been abducted.    What other reason could there be?

Another thing that bothers me, Benice.   

Amaral and Cristavao made out that the reason Joana was "killed " was because she came home and found them "at it", so as they were brother and sister they had to kill her.

Am I right in saying that the Judge did not believe the story that Joana had come home and found them "at it" ?

So Amaral and Cristavaos theory was an absolute  No-Goer !


FGS why were Leonor and Joao convicted?



NOTHING, NOWT, NO EVIDENCE to convict them on .... ZILCH .... Just tortured out NON EVIDENCE




Now that is a Miscarriage of Justice, if there ever was one

Offline Wonderfulspam

Yes indeed Sadie, if you completely ignore the childs bloodied hand print on the wall & the missing hacksaw, then it's quite obvious not only that the Ciprianos are 100% innocent, but that Joana is a real live findable child.
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline sadie

Yes indeed Sadie, if you completely ignore the childs bloodied hand print on the wall & the missing hacksaw, then it's quite obvious not only that the Ciprianos are 100% innocent, but that Joana is a real live findable child.

Oh, the childs bloody hand print is news to me. 

I understood that there were NO FORENSICS. just blood.

Just blood and the family had a special room where they butchered their pigs.  Now tell me, how does pig blood differ to human blood if NO FORENSICS were tried.



Please would you be so kind as to furnish FORENSIC PROOF thta Joanas bloody hand print was on the wall. 


I am not interested in Amaral or Cristavao "said so".  They are amazingly good at story telling .... Oh and Amaral is a proven liar ... a perjurer twice proven in the Courts of PT.

... And Cristavao is currently, I believe, up on 7 (SEVEN !!) charges of the most awful kind


So please Spammy the FORENSIC PROOF that Joana's bloody hand print was on the wall

Offline Wonderfulspam

Let's, just ignore the circumstantial evidence in the Cipriano case shall we.

Joana is alive and well & out there,  it's just complete coincidence that a bloodied childs handprint was found on a wall & that hacksaw was stolen from the family home at the time of Joana's abduction, innit.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 02:41:41 AM by John »
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Anna

And Joana's abductor remains at large, doesn't he, she or they.

The PJ never found that Hacksaw the abductor stole either.

The injustice.

What saw?

Stepfather of Joan waiting for justice
by José Manuel Oliveira07 May 2005
Comment


"If Leonor is in fact guilty of what it is alleged, then it can rot in prison. Non'll want to know more of her and I told you that sometimes. But if you are innocent, I will continue to support it." This is the reaction of Leandro Silva, stepfather of Joana Cipriano, the child disappeared eight years since the September 12 in the village of Figueira, in Portimão. According to the indictment the Prosecutor (MP), the girl was murdered by her mother, Leonor Cipriano, and uncle John Manuel, who are pretrial detainees for almost eight months. Then the body will have been quartered and released at large.
The Judicial Police maintains a belief about the likely fate of the corpse: one of the existing pig farms in the village of Figueira, where the pigs would eventually devour. Has learned the DN, the attorney MP understood, however, that there was insufficient evidence to support this version. It does not have advanced to the possible location of the body of Joan, or what would be left of it.
The process will take more than 30 pages, but will not charge against ten to Leonor and her brother. The lawyer for the mother of Joana, João de Novais Pacheco has not yet had time to read the indictment and not know whether it will be feasible to request the opening of investigating the case, for that within twenty days.

On the other hand, it was learned that now, after all, the number of defendants subject to the term of identity and residence - in its most suspected of involvement in the concealment of the corpse - was greater than that which the public was coming. The Leandro Silva, his mother, Maria de Lourdes David, Carlos Alberto Silva this, son, and Carlos Pinto, a former mechanic sucateira works in which the adoptive family girl, joined Nelson Cipriano, his sister Anabela Anatolius and Duarte, this husband. However, all were eventually acquitted of the process, which has only two defendants: Leonor and João Cipriano. The opinion of MP and judge of the Court of Portimão, Ana Soares, but diverges as the criminal frame. While the MP says that it was a crime of murder, in which the two siblings may incur a penalty from 12 to 25 years in prison, the judge believes to have been a crime of assault, punishable by 16 months to six years in jail.

Leandro Silva does not see his companion for over a month, but intends to go visit her chain of Beja, next Sunday. For eight months, said he walked "full of problems, with great pressure, the interrogatories PJ", which claims to have been "assaulted several times." "People looked at me suspiciously while getting in some establishment," he added. Now, sit "somewhat relieved" because his name was not included in the indictment.




"But lack clarify much:? After all, where is Joan who is responsible for her disappearance," wonders Leandro, for whom "good or bad, it's turn up." Do not know whether to sue someone, but do not forget some cases:. "An journalist to interview me, insinuated that I would have helped to cut up the body with stuff that do not even have he offered a lollipop to my son, of two years, to force him to say that Joan had been assaulted by the mother or the uncle and had blood on her head. "

http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006701&especial=Caso Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE&page=1


“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

PJ admit there is no evidence against Ciprianos
 17th march 2005

The national director of the Judicial Police (PJ) yesterday admitted that no evidence to support a murder charge against Leonor Cipriano and John Manuel, held under the case of the disappearance of Joana were collected. Faced with the advanced information by DN yesterday, Santos Cabral just said, in summary, that the Judicial "did what was required, while national criminal police", not wanting to rule on "other phases of the process."
"The Judicial Police took a position on 23 September [2004], in which it expressed a conviction of how things had passed," began by saying the national director of the PJ, stressing that "we are talking in terms of police," if excusing the police pronounce whether this conviction whether or not translated in terms of evidence, albeit circumstantial, that allowed so far sustain a charge of aggravated murder, as stated in the 2004 statement "In this case, police made 50 000 kilometers, held in 2100 pleading, mobilized and 40 inspectors conducted 40 laboratory tests ", further added Santos Cabral, without, however, revealing that all these steps have resulted in the collection of evidence about the two suspects in the disappearance of Joana in the village of Figueira in Portimão.

http://www.dn.pt/Inicio/interior.aspx?content_id=612768


Lack of evidence may exonerate mother and uncle of Joana


http://www.dn.pt/Inicio/interior.aspx?content_id=625655
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 09:19:08 PM by Anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Wonderfulspam

The Saw which Leandro Silva testified had gone missing from the Cipriano family home just after Joana disappeared.

That Saw.

I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Anna

The Saw which Leandro Silva testified had gone missing from the Cipriano family home just after Joana disappeared.

That Saw.

He denies ever having "The stuff" to cut someone up with in the article below



''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


:. "An journalist to interview me, insinuated that I would have helped to cut up the body with stuff that do not even have, he offered a lollipop to my son, of two years, to force him to say that Joan had been assaulted by the mother or the uncle and had blood on her head. "

http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006701&especial=Caso Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE&page=1


“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato