Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog  (Read 47094 times)

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jackiepreece

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #135 on: February 17, 2013, 06:41:06 PM »
Quote



for example it is rumoured that a school teacher informed the Police that the only things JB had been good at whilst a pupil at Greshams had been shooting and lying !


Come on Dillon another rumour!!!

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #136 on: February 17, 2013, 06:47:24 PM »
Andy I think you are wrong about no interest in the case because MWT believes JB to be innocent and I don't think he is finished work on the case yet but would probably do a much longer in depth documentary next time

I think he wants to get to the bottom of some of the mysteries in the case.  He spent hours and days reading up on the case but I don't think he had enough time to complete the job the way he wanted.
He worked on the Saville case for months

He is also looking at the case through a police officers eyes

Offline Andrea

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #137 on: February 17, 2013, 07:14:49 PM »
MWT is one person jack. After the doc that was shown i didnt see any headlines in the papers the next morning screaming for the case to be reffered, i havent seen a rise in people interested in the case.
There is a handful of people think he's innocent, thats it. He's guilty, theres no getting away from that. Even Mike knows Sheila didnt kill herself and that her body was stage managed, he just thinks the police are responsible.

Dont forget, Bamber isnt going anywhere, he has all the time in the world to pester the CCRC, and claim innocence, he's got nothing left to lose, or nothing else to do!

Dillon

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #138 on: February 17, 2013, 07:49:11 PM »
I thought that MWT's documentary was relatively balanced and did not come over as that supportive of JB's cause . Does MWT REALLY beleive JB is innocent ? As an ex Police Officer who has studied the evidence and apparently quite a sensible sort of guy it is hard to understand how he could beleive that Sheila was responsible . He makes his living out of things like these documentaries rather then being some sort of crusader for justice.

Anyway just to be irritating and speculative , on the subject of involvement of a third person and to feed the conspiracy theorists, how about the possibility that  JB 's close mate, BC, who seemed to appearconveniently  so soon after the murders might not have had such a water tight alibi as I beleive some sources reckon that he had several passports . Also does anyone know anything about the circumstances of his brother's death and was it straightfoward. I have long felt that the mysterious BC knows a lot about what really happened .

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #139 on: February 17, 2013, 07:55:22 PM »

He spent hours and days reading up on the case but I don't think he had enough time to complete the job the way he wanted.

******************************

He is also looking at the case through a police officers eyes

MWT didn't make such a good job of the last documentary... he couldn't even get the proper barrel length right.

So why then put out a rushed documentary and dodgy, unfinished firearms tests costing thousands, or more likely tens of thousands when a man's freedom depended on them?   I don't think members of the CCRC who saw it and examined the two measly quarter pages from the U.S. were too impressed.

*****************************************************

And so is Mick Gradwell... "I feel from looking at the overall circumstances of the case that it is a safe conviction and that Jeremy Bamber in a cold blooded, calculated way killed his family, and I think the evidence does point that way quite significantly".

It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Andrea

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #140 on: February 17, 2013, 08:00:44 PM »
Mick gradwell was also an ex cop wasnt he?

Offline Myster

It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #142 on: February 17, 2013, 08:15:49 PM »
I doubt any documents withheld would prove definitively what happened that night or cast doubt on the conviction.

Also people on the blue forum do put forth the allegation that Nevill in his position as magistrate had made enemies by putting people in prison to support the possibility of a third party involved. Let's be clear that magistrates do have the power to put people in prison, but the maximum jail sentence they can give is 6 months. They can in extreme circumstances give two 6 month sentences to be served consecutively. However, in almost all cases with good behaviour etc a criminal will only serve 3 months of a six month sentence. Any more serious case will always be referred by the magistrate to Crown Court. I don't believe for a second that anyone would bear such a grudge against a magistrate for sending someone down for 3 months that they would be willing to murder 2 six year old boys. And why would they then look to show Sheila had done it  yet at the same time try to frame Jeremy? Makes no sense. It was either Sheila or Jeremy.

Exactly goatboy.  It takes a certain kind of a sick son of a bitch psycho to kill someone else's children in cold blood.  This is probably why people find it difficult to believe that such a nice looking lad as Jeremy was 27 years ago could do such a terrible deed.  I found it hard to believe and I have studied the case so I can understand why the uninformed are sometimes sceptical.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

jackiepreece

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #143 on: February 17, 2013, 08:18:31 PM »
Interesting points Dillon re the third party/bc

See there is still lots to discuss about the case

jackiepreece

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #144 on: February 17, 2013, 08:22:28 PM »
See the quotes from one of the leading experts in their field re Jeremy's history/character


Pathologist's Views
Dr Vanezis, the pathologist who examined the bodies had not detailed a time of death for any of the deceased in his report. He provided the police with statements written long after the post mortem, the first during September and others during November 1985 and May 1986 when he used his notes and scene photographs to assist him.

The Dickinson review then requested that he write an additional report post trial and the extracts below are taken from this report which appears to be much more candid and in favour of the Defence than his pre-trial statements.
Regarding his initial examinations he stated: 
“Sheila had suffered two gunshot wounds. I was a little concerned with this but in my experience, bearing in mind the low velocity of the weapon, whilst unusual, suicide with two shots does occur. I have experienced four or five in the past. In order to consider this a possibility, however, I must have been impressed by the information given to me as to position of the weapon, length of barrel and the ability of Sheila to reach the trigger. I had been told it was a semi-automatic weapon.  The result of my P.M. examination of Sheila was 'death due to gunshot wounds'. My examination did not reveal anything to contradict the suicide theory and I must say, although I could not from my examination, confirm murder or suicide”
The post mortem’s continued the following day and Dr Peter Vanezis further states: 
“Having discussed the number of shots involved (24) I was told the magazine could hold at least eight cartridges. Sheila was a farmer's daughter and would have been used to firearms. I drew no serious consequence from the number of shots fired.”                                                     
When DS Stan Jones later asked him some time later what he thought about it being a murder/suicide he wrote: 
“Whilst respecting his views there was nothing impressive about what he said and certainly I cannot recall anything of evidential substance to the effect that Sheila could not have done it.” 
Dr Vanezis continues: 
“I then discussed the two possibilities : If it wasn't Sheila it had to be Jeremy. We went over the information and I expressed the views that Jeremy would have to be a nutter to have done what had occurred, in that he must have had such a warped state of mind to engineer it in the manner in which it was presented. This was almost too incredible to believe. Additionally, in order to stage manage Sheila she would probably need to be under the influence of drugs. I said that I would ascertain the results of the drug analysis with regard to that point before completing my report.” 
The drug analysis came back negative, apart from the tests showing a reduced dose of Haloperidol a treatment for Schizophrenia, and a trace of Cannabis taken some four days earlier, Sheila had not been sedated. In support of Dr Vanezis views, Jeremy Bamber had no history violence, has never had any mental illness, and does not have any psychopathic traits in 27 different assessments. Sheila Caffell on the other hand, was delusional, volatile, suicidal and “could use physical aggression directed to property, herself or others” As detailed by her Psychologist, her boyfriend and other witnesses who gave police statements.
It is unclear why the views expressed by the pathologist shifted in this report which seems to suggest that he was later influenced by the information provided by police. He also described one of the bullet's in Sheila Caffell's body as "Fragmented" but Malcolm Fletcher the Ballistics expert for the prosecution describes it as whole which is how it was presented at trial. Read more about Sheila's X-Ray's and the fragmented bullet here. Dr Vanezis also stated that SOCO officers took hand swabs from both Sheila Caffell and Nevill Bamber but none of the SOCO officers admitted to taking swabs from Nevill. Later the hand swabs taken from Sheila Caffell were rejected by the lab, when they returned they bore a different exhibit reference number and only very low levels of lead were detected suggesting that Sheila had possibly handled the weapon but not fired it. This became key prosecution evidence. Why were the exhibit reference numbers for the swabs altered and what became of the hand swabs from Nevill Bamber which were never allocated an exhibit reference? Many of the key exhibits had altered reference numbers including the sound moderator and hacksaw blade.
Recent testimony from forensic ballistics expert Philip Boyes proves that gunshot reside which would have discharged onto Sheila Caffell's hands when she fired the gun was easily and simply wiped away on cloth or clothing without any need for washing. This meant that Sheila had very low levels of lead when her hands were tested.  The low levels of lead on Sheila's hands  is not a valid part of the prosecution's case and never was.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #145 on: February 17, 2013, 08:40:26 PM »
The thing is Goatboy you used the words 'you doubt' regarding PII in the Bamber case but none of us know what's really withheld.
Time and time the criminal justice system is let down by 'someone' playing god and deciding what gets withheld.
It's time this problem is highlighted to stop further MOJ case.
In the Bamber case everything possible needs to be released to stop speculation about this case once and for all.

Jackie, can I ask you what possible difference would anything held under PII make to what we already know?  It's not as if it could ever change the way sheila was found is it?  It matters little about PII in my opinion as nothing will ever change the sequence of events as we know them to be.

There is no mystery about this Jackie.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #146 on: February 17, 2013, 09:22:02 PM »
See the quotes from one of the leading experts in their field re Jeremy's history/character


Pathologist's Views
Dr Vanezis, the pathologist who examined the bodies had not detailed a time of death for any of the deceased in his report. He provided the police with statements written long after the post mortem, the first during September and others during November 1985 and May 1986 when he used his notes and scene photographs to assist him.

The Dickinson review then requested that he write an additional report post trial and the extracts below are taken from this report which appears to be much more candid and in favour of the Defence than his pre-trial statements.
Regarding his initial examinations he stated: 
?Sheila had suffered two gunshot wounds. I was a little concerned with this but in my experience, bearing in mind the low velocity of the weapon, whilst unusual, suicide with two shots does occur. I have experienced four or five in the past. In order to consider this a possibility, however, I must have been impressed by the information given to me as to position of the weapon, length of barrel and the ability of Sheila to reach the trigger. I had been told it was a semi-automatic weapon.  The result of my P.M. examination of Sheila was 'death due to gunshot wounds'. My examination did not reveal anything to contradict the suicide theory and I must say, although I could not from my examination, confirm murder or suicide?
The post mortem?s continued the following day and Dr Peter Vanezis further states: 
?Having discussed the number of shots involved (24) I was told the magazine could hold at least eight cartridges. Sheila was a farmer's daughter and would have been used to firearms. I drew no serious consequence from the number of shots fired.?                                                     
When DS Stan Jones later asked him some time later what he thought about it being a murder/suicide he wrote: 
?Whilst respecting his views there was nothing impressive about what he said and certainly I cannot recall anything of evidential substance to the effect that Sheila could not have done it.? 
Dr Vanezis continues: 
?I then discussed the two possibilities : If it wasn't Sheila it had to be Jeremy. We went over the information and I expressed the views that Jeremy would have to be a nutter to have done what had occurred, in that he must have had such a warped state of mind to engineer it in the manner in which it was presented. This was almost too incredible to believe. Additionally, in order to stage manage Sheila she would probably need to be under the influence of drugs. I said that I would ascertain the results of the drug analysis with regard to that point before completing my report.? 
The drug analysis came back negative, apart from the tests showing a reduced dose of Haloperidol a treatment for Schizophrenia, and a trace of Cannabis taken some four days earlier, Sheila had not been sedated. In support of Dr Vanezis views, Jeremy Bamber had no history violence, has never had any mental illness, and does not have any psychopathic traits in 27 different assessments. Sheila Caffell on the other hand, was delusional, volatile, suicidal and ?could use physical aggression directed to property, herself or others? As detailed by her Psychologist, her boyfriend and other witnesses who gave police statements.
It is unclear why the views expressed by the pathologist shifted in this report which seems to suggest that he was later influenced by the information provided by police. He also described one of the bullet's in Sheila Caffell's body as "Fragmented" but Malcolm Fletcher the Ballistics expert for the prosecution describes it as whole which is how it was presented at trial. Read more about Sheila's X-Ray's and the fragmented bullet here. Dr Vanezis also stated that SOCO officers took hand swabs from both Sheila Caffell and Nevill Bamber but none of the SOCO officers admitted to taking swabs from Nevill. Later the hand swabs taken from Sheila Caffell were rejected by the lab, when they returned they bore a different exhibit reference number and only very low levels of lead were detected suggesting that Sheila had possibly handled the weapon but not fired it. This became key prosecution evidence. Why were the exhibit reference numbers for the swabs altered and what became of the hand swabs from Nevill Bamber which were never allocated an exhibit reference? Many of the key exhibits had altered reference numbers including the sound moderator and hacksaw blade.
Recent testimony from forensic ballistics expert Philip Boyes proves that gunshot reside which would have discharged onto Sheila Caffell's hands when she fired the gun was easily and simply wiped away on cloth or clothing without any need for washing. This meant that Sheila had very low levels of lead when her hands were tested.  The low levels of lead on Sheila's hands  is not a valid part of the prosecution's case and never was.

Any female in a nightie who fires a rifle 25 times and kills 4 people at close range and has a fight with a strong man over 6ft tall would have signs of this on them or their clothing. Sheila did not. Several police officers testified as to the cleanliness of sheila's hands and feet which really surprised them given the circumstances.

Dr Vanezis was shocked and VERY ANGRY when after conducting the autopsy he later saw the original photos of Sheila with "hardly a hair out of place".  No blood smear on her neck and no blood on her fingertips.  This was completely different to the state in which she was presented to him at the morgue.  We have all seen the morgue photos with blood staining all over her neck and face.  This happened after she was put into the body bag and while her remains were being removed for autopsy.  Had we not seen the original photos of Sheila lying where she fell we might also have been pointed in the wrong direction.

I agree that Dr Vanezis originally could not rule out suicide but when he saw the original photos he knew immediately that she could never have shot herself twice and ended up as she did.

Nice try Jackie but just not good enough.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #147 on: February 17, 2013, 09:48:17 PM »
I thought that MWT's documentary was relatively balanced and did not come over as that supportive of JB's cause . Does MWT REALLY beleive JB is innocent ? As an ex Police Officer who has studied the evidence and apparently quite a sensible sort of guy it is hard to understand how he could beleive that Sheila was responsible . He makes his living out of things like these documentaries rather then being some sort of crusader for justice.

Anyway just to be irritating and speculative , on the subject of involvement of a third person and to feed the conspiracy theorists, how about the possibility that  JB 's close mate, BC, who seemed to appearconveniently  so soon after the murders might not have had such a water tight alibi as I beleive some sources reckon that he had several passports . Also does anyone know anything about the circumstances of his brother's death and was it straightfoward. I have long felt that the mysterious BC knows a lot about what really happened .

First off, Mark Williams-Thomas is a tit.  Sorry Jackie but he is.   @)(++(*

He said in the documentary that the family were killed with a shotgun, what a bloody stupid thing to say.

I agree with what you are saying about Collins.  His convenient alibi so far away is very suspicious.  He was well checked out by the police though after Robert Boutflour set a private detective on him.  There is much that has never been revealed about Brett but only Jeremy Bamber knows what it is.  I have a feeling that he has changed his name after returning to New Zealand because he has effectively disappeared or is dead.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline goatboy

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #148 on: February 17, 2013, 10:18:56 PM »
Thought MWT's documentary was rather poor. A shotgun FFS? For someone who specialises in investigating abuse of children he seems rather keen to give airtime to a convicted child killer. I thought the purpose of the doc was to advance Bamber's case to appeal, however it ended up balanced and don't forget it was Mick Gradwell and David Boutflour who had the last words.

Offline Sandy

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The Campaigner Blog
« Reply #149 on: February 17, 2013, 10:23:55 PM »
Thought MWT's documentary was rather poor. A shotgun FFS? For someone who specialises in investigating abuse of children he seems rather keen to give airtime to a convicted child killer. I thought the purpose of the doc was to advance Bamber's case to appeal, however it ended up balanced and don't forget it was Mick Gradwell and David Boutflour who had the last words.

MWT earns money from these TV shows...work the rest out for yourselves.  8(0(*  8**8:/: