Why was the window open ?

[debunker]

A little formal?

Mais de rien.

[Eleanor]

A little formal?

Mais de rien.

Shut up.  I like it,  And I use it at every given opportunity.  Which isn't often.

[debunker]

 

After six years I thought I might warrant tu.

"Je t'en prie."

[Eleanor]

After six years I thought I might warrant tu.

"Je t'en prie."

Oh, I'm so sorry.  i didn't know you could say that.  Course you warrant it.  And thanks for telling me.

Je t'en prie.  Je t'en prie,  La la la la la.  Nice, innit.

[sadie]

1)  The window wasn't wide enough to pass Madeleine thru, unless she were held in a standing up type position. 

2)  If that were the case then she was either drugged or screaming her head off ... and she would have been heard .  Also she appeared asleep (or drugged) when carried by Bundleman

3)  We are told there were no fibres, dirt or scratches found around the window frame or sill, so no-one went thru.

4)  The likelyhood of Kates prints being the only ones on the window frame are zero.  Cos the first thing everyone connected to The Mccanns would have done, would have been to grab onto the window frame and lean out as far as they could ... looking left, right and down. 
Everyone would have done that!  Excuse my language, but there was a PJ b**ls-up there. 

Kates prints alone ... what nonsense!  Sounds like some-one is fitting her up.  But then the PJ wouldn't do anything like that, would they?

5)  The window was not really wide enough for a man to get thru and it was reasonably high off the ground from the outside.  With an extremely thin man, it could be done, but the man would have had to have stood or kneeled on the sill ... no marks there!  ... and what a struggle!


I am fairly competent at figure drawing and body proportions. 
Having seen the height of that window sill from outside, I can tell you with confidence that NO MAN could have got into 5A via that window without his crotch being severely damaged.   

Physically, his legs would not have been long enough.  Remember the depth of the sill.  Even if the walls are only a minimal thickness, he will have had to arch his privates over at least a sill of about a foot ...  and at thigh level  ... come on!
Gawd think of the pain he would be in!  LOL! ... and there would be fingerprints everywhere!

So alternatively, he was skinny and stood/kneeled on the sill.  ... But as apparently there were no marks, we can rule that one out.


Nothing human went thru that window.  It is a Red Herring!




Only my opinion, but lots of pointers.  Heri on Myths has another opinion, but there are a lot of BUTS with that  ... again only my opinion.

The FRONT DOOR was used both in and out, almost certainly !

[icabodcrane]

1)  The window wasn't wide enough to pass Madeleine thru, unless she were held in a standing up type position. 

2)  If that were the case then she was either drugged or screaming her head off ... and she would have been heard .  Also she appeared asleep (or drugged) when carried by Bundleman

3)  We are told there were no fibres, dirt or scratches found around the window frame or sill, so no-one went thru.

4)  The likelyhood of Kates prints being the only ones on the window frame are zero.  Cos the first thing everyone connected to The Mccanns would have done, would have been to grab onto the window frame and lean out as far as they could ... looking left, right and down. 
Everyone would have done that!  Excuse my language, but there was a PJ b**ls-up there. 

Kates prints alone ... what nonsense!  Sounds like some-one is fitting her up.  But then the PJ wouldn't do anything like that, would they?

5)  The window was not really wide enough for a man to get thru and it was reasonably high off the ground from the outside.  With an extremely thin man, it could be done, but the man would have had to have stood or kneeled on the sill ... no marks there!  ... and what a struggle!


I am fairly competent at figure drawing and body proportions. 
Having seen the height of that window sill from outside, I can tell you with confidence that NO MAN could have got into 5A via that window without his crotch being severely damaged.   

Physically, his legs would not have been long enough.  Remember the depth of the sill.  Even if the walls are only a minimal thickness, he will have had to arch his privates over at least a sill of about a foot ...  and at thigh level  ... come on!
Gawd think of the pain he would be in!  LOL! ... and there would be fingerprints everywhere!

So alternatively, he was skinny and stood/kneeled on the sill.  ... But as apparently there were no marks, we can rule that one out.


Nothing human went thru that window.  It is a Red Herring!




Only my opinion, but lots of pointers.  Heri on Myths has another opinion, but there are a lot of BUTS with that  ... again only my opinion.

The FRONT DOOR was used both in and out, almost certainly !

Some very interesting points there sadie,  some of which I wasn't aware.  Thankyou

The 'Red Herring'  thing though  (  Kate McCann  suggested that herself,  as I recall  )

How do you mean ?  ...  that an abductor opened the window in order to disguise the fact that he had a duplicate key for the apartment  and wanted to make  it look like  there had been a break-in instead ? 

Why would he need to do that though  ?

I mean the apartment had been left with unlocked patio doors,  which people had been in and out of all night

An abductor with a key wouldn't  need  to make it look like he had broken in  ...  he,  and anyone else,  had free access to that child,  with a key or not

[sadie]

Hi Bod

Thanks for reading.  I know I am long winded ... but I try and get all the facts in.

Madeleine was being carried with her head on bundlemans left arm.  As you correctly observed, had he scooped her up from her bed ..  then she would have had her head on his right arm.  Therefore at least two people were involved in the lifting and removing.

OK, based on that, why was the window open?

---------------------------------------


IMO, the window was open for a number of reasons:

1)  To allow Bundleman to give reassurance and instructions to the lifter

2)  To allow them to pass things (Chloroform/injecting kit) to each other

3)  To help fumes disipate

4) To give allow natural light to pass into the room.  Full moon the night before.!  Better not to use torches or switch lights on; better to use natural light and what little street light coming thru the dense canopy of trees surrounding the North, East and West sides of 5A

5) To present a Red Herring.  If people thought the abductor came in thru the front door then it narrowed the number of possible abductors down.  It also indicated that a key was used.  Therefore someone with attachments to 5A was likely involved

There are about three more reasons that i thought of, but I cannot remember them at present.  Old Age!

_______________

The patio door

I well remember Amaral himself saying that nobody would have gone in via the patio door because the parents were too close ... and anyway if you look at contemporary photographs you will see that it was well lit by a street light immediately across the road from the patio entrance(No tall tree canopy at the rear of the building).

The front door was a gift.  An absolute gift.  Hidden from view and dark as hell.  Going to and fro from their apartments, no-one walked past at all and it couldn't be seen from the road ..  or from he apartments opposite.  The window was not so hidden, anyone walking across that car park could have seen someone there. 

Almost certainly entry and exit were by the Front Door which as i said was completely hidden from the street in all directions ...  East West South and North ... no-one passing by along the road could see the deeply recessed front door.  Also, we are told, the light in the recess was broken ... so extemely dark and a perfect abduction entrance and exit.  You see the tree canopy was massive so little light got on to that car park from the street lights.  Pat Browns pictures were quite honestly disinformation because it wasn't like that in 2007.  That massive lamp on the building appears to have been fitted recently

__________________-----


From Jane Tanners terstimony Bundleman MUST have come from the front of the building.  Gerry and Jez were at the back chatting away, so he would not have exited that way.

It was the front door almost without doubt... both in and out

[icabodcrane]

Sadie

I will take some time to give such a well thought through reply the consideration it deserves

Thankyou

[peter claridge]

It wasn't, it was just the McCann's prefered point of entry for their abductor. that was until they realised that Jane Tanner's alibi providing sighting for Gerry rendered it a red herring!

Abductor enters via the window Kate has clear view of patio doors, abductor enters via patio doors Kate's looking the other way!

[Luz]

Hi Bod

Thanks for reading.  I know I am long winded ... but I try and get all the facts in.

Madeleine was being carried with her head on bundlemans left arm.  As you correctly observed, had he scooped her up from her bed ..  then she would have had her head on his right arm.  Therefore at least two people were involved in the lifting and removing.

OK, based on that, why was the window open?

---------------------------------------


IMO, the window was open for a number of reasons:

1)  To allow Bundleman to give reassurance and instructions to the lifter

2)  To allow them to pass things (Chloroform/injecting kit) to each other

3)  To help fumes disipate

4) To give allow natural light to pass into the room.  Full moon the night before.!  Better not to use torches or switch lights on; better to use natural light and what little street light coming thru the dense canopy of trees surrounding the North, East and West sides of 5A

5) To present a Red Herring.  If people thought the abductor came in thru the front door then it narrowed the number of possible abductors down.  It also indicated that a key was used.  Therefore someone with attachments to 5A was likely involved

There are about three more reasons that i thought of, but I cannot remember them at present.  Old Age!

_______________

The patio door

I well remember Amaral himself saying that nobody would have gone in via the patio door because the parents were too close ... and anyway if you look at contemporary photographs you will see that it was well lit by a street light immediately across the road from the patio entrance(No tall tree canopy at the rear of the building).

The front door was a gift.  An absolute gift.  Hidden from view and dark as hell.  Going to and fro from their apartments, no-one walked past at all and it couldn't be seen from the road ..  or from he apartments opposite.  The window was not so hidden, anyone walking across that car park could have seen someone there. 

Almost certainly entry and exit were by the Front Door which as i said was completely hidden from the street in all directions ...  East West South and North ... no-one passing by along the road could see the deeply recessed front door.  Also, we are told, the light in the recess was broken ... so extemely dark and a perfect abduction entrance and exit.  You see the tree canopy was massive so little light got on to that car park from the street lights.  Pat Browns pictures were quite honestly disinformation because it wasn't like that in 2007.  That massive lamp on the building appears to have been fitted recently

__________________-----


From Jane Tanners terstimony Bundleman MUST have come from the front of the building.  Gerry and Jez were at the back chatting away, so he would not have exited that way.

It was the front door almost without doubt... both in and out

Another novel writer. Very good. Try the BBC, they may take you for a series writer.

That's all bollocks, you have not a shred of evidence to back up that fantasy.
The window was opened because Kate McCann opened it - hers were the only fingerprints there.
There were no fumes but there had been probably some sedation of the kids because Kate kept testing their breathing as far as her friends told the police. And who could have known it but the person who administered it?
No bundleman was foolish enough to walk a kidnapped child into the middle of the village and Tanner's memory must have suffered some blow from some unknown source...
The front door would only open with a key and there were no signs of forced entry.

Your story is just that, a story.

[sadie]

It wasn't, it was just the McCann's prefered point of entry for their abductor. that was until they realised that Jane Tanner's alibi providing sighting for Gerry rendered it a red herring!

Abductor enters via the window Kate has clear view of patio doors, abductor enters via patio doors Kate's looking the other way!

Peter

That is disgusting.

You are saying that the Mccanns arranged it.  No feasible theory at all.  Tbh, you deserve to be sued.

[sadie]

Quote from: sadie on April 06, 2013, 10:13:25 PM

Sadie

Hi Bod

Thanks for reading.  I know I am long winded ... but I try and get all the facts in.

Madeleine was being carried with her head on bundlemans left arm.  As you correctly observed, had he scooped her up from her bed ..  then she would have had her head on his right arm.  Therefore at least two people were involved in the lifting and removing.

OK, based on that, why was the window open?

---------------------------------------


IMO, the window was open for a number of reasons:

1)  To allow Bundleman to give reassurance and instructions to the lifter

2)  To allow them to pass things (Chloroform/injecting kit) to each other

3)  To help fumes disipate

4) To give allow natural light to pass into the room.  Full moon the night before.!  Better not to use torches or switch lights on; better to use natural light and what little street light coming thru the dense canopy of trees surrounding the North, East and West sides of 5A

5) To present a Red Herring.  If people thought the abductor came in thru the front door then it narrowed the number of possible abductors down.  It also indicated that a key was used.  Therefore someone with attachments to 5A was likely involved

There are about three more reasons that i thought of, but I cannot remember them at present.  Old Age!

_______________

The patio door

I well remember Amaral himself saying that nobody would have gone in via the patio door because the parents were too close ... and anyway if you look at contemporary photographs you will see that it was well lit by a street light immediately across the road from the patio entrance(No tall tree canopy at the rear of the building).

The front door was a gift.  An absolute gift.  Hidden from view and dark as hell.  Going to and fro from their apartments, no-one walked past at all and it couldn't be seen from the road ..  or from he apartments opposite.  The window was not so hidden, anyone walking across that car park could have seen someone there. 

Almost certainly entry and exit were by the Front Door which as i said was completely hidden from the street in all directions ...  East West South and North ... no-one passing by along the road could see the deeply recessed front door.  Also, we are told, the light in the recess was broken ... so extemely dark and a perfect abduction entrance and exit.  You see the tree canopy was massive so little light got on to that car park from the street lights.  Pat Browns pictures were quite honestly disinformation because it wasn't like that in 2007.  That massive lamp on the building appears to have been fitted recently

__________________-----


From Jane Tanners terstimony Bundleman MUST have come from the front of the building.  Gerry and Jez were at the back chatting away, so he would not have exited that way.

It was the front door almost without doubt... both in and out

Quote from: Luz on April 06, 2013, 10:40:31 PM

Another novel writer. Very good. Try the BBC, they may take you for a series writer.

That's all bollocks, you have not a shred of evidence to back up that fantasy.
The window was opened because Kate McCann opened it - hers were the only fingerprints there.
There were no fumes but there had been probably some sedation of the kids because Kate kept testing their breathing as far as her friends told the police. And who could have known it but the person who administered it?
No bundleman was foolish enough to walk a kidnapped child into the middle of the village and Tanner's memory must have suffered some blow from some unknown source...
The front door would only open with a key and there were no signs of forced entry.

Your story is just that, a story.

[Edited:  I had doubled up on both my and Luz's posts.  Now corrected]



One thing, Luz, it is logical and a definite possibility.

NOTHING you have given is.  



Just give me the bits that ARE wrong

[C.Edwards]

Oh good grief. We're into fantasy writing here at the moment.  There is NOTHING to back up this frankly rather hysterical conjecture about doors and windows. It was ably demonstrated by the PJ that it was impossible for anyone to have passed through that window. Furthermore a sleeping child could not have been passed through.

Other theories that have been put forward over the years include the window being open to allow an emergency exit in case of discovery - plausible.  That it was opened to allow the abductor to "check outside before exiting" - well, great, but the front door was around the corner from the window out of sight. No way of seeing if someone was there. "Oh hi Mr. McCann, I'm just taking Madeleine for a late night walk, OK?"

It seems reasonable to believe that Gerry McCann and Jez Wilkins were outside the back gate (but which side of the road?) so the patio door couldn't have been used.  The front door was allegedly locked so to believe that was used would mean you have to subscribe to the "spare key" scenario and that doesn't appear online until someone invented it in about 2009. Strange that.  Window can't have been used as there's no physical way and also no forensic evidence.

All in all, it's making an abduction rather implausible to have been achieved by anyone short of Tom Cruise and the Mission Impossible team.

[debunker]

Obviously I was mistaken in who "C.Edwards was. It was a handle used by a fence sitter. This C Edwards is apparently a [ censored word ].

DIrty tricks!

[stephen25000]

Oh good grief. We're into fantasy writing here at the moment.  There is NOTHING to back up this frankly rather hysterical conjecture about doors and windows. It was ably demonstrated by the PJ that it was impossible for anyone to have passed through that window. Furthermore a sleeping child could not have been passed through.

Other theories that have been put forward over the years include the window being open to allow an emergency exit in case of discovery - plausible.  That it was opened to allow the abductor to "check outside before exiting" - well, great, but the front door was around the corner from the window out of sight. No way of seeing if someone was there. "Oh hi Mr. McCann, I'm just taking Madeleine for a late night walk, OK?"

It seems reasonable to believe that Gerry McCann and Jez Wilkins were outside the back gate (but which side of the road?) so the patio door couldn't have been used.  The front door was allegedly locked so to believe that was used would mean you have to subscribe to the "spare key" scenario and that doesn't appear online until someone invented it in about 2009. Strange that.  Window can't have been used as there's no physical way and also no forensic evidence.

All in all, it's making an abduction rather implausible to have been achieved by anyone short of Tom Cruise and the Mission Impossible team.

Well, put C. Edwards.