The Neglect question

[icabodcrane]

If I can go back a few posts, icabodcrane mentions the half hour checks.  Yes I agree but that was only the McCanns.  You are forgetting the others who are either checking or passing the apartment regularly.  Any noise would have been heard by them in the stillness of the night.  The McCanns would have taken this all into account before making their decision to leave them in the bedroom.

It never crossed their mind that their apartment was being watched and that an abduction was being planned. 

I have no doubt that this was not an opportunist crime, this abduction was carefully planned to the minute and Jane Tanner nearly thwarted it.

That's a fair point John

'In between' the half hourly  checks the McCanns made,  there may , indeed have been  'audio'  checks made by others who were to'ing and fro'ing

Here's a question though  ...  why was it that  the McCann children were checked frequently by others in the tapas group  (  according to statements )   whilst the McCanns,  on their own checks,  never listened in on any of the other children in reciprocation  ? 

[AnneGuedes]

I wonder why Matthew (or Rachael) didn't go with Kate at 10 or didn't ask her to listen to their window or why Kate didn't propose to do so. May be this happened but was overwhelmed by the discovery that Madeleine was missing.

[puglove]

We are talking about two and a half hours of an evening here, not all bloody night.  Anyone might think that The McCanns had gone off somewhere for hours at a time the way some of you carry on.

Their three children were under the age of four, and had been left in an unsecured apartment

Some people think to leave children of that age  for half hour periods in an unlocked apartment was  cavalier of the McCanns

I agree with them

They were steps away, and checking regularly.  Stop exaggerating..  The abductor could have broken in during the night when they were asleep.  But then no doubt, they would have been accused of being paralytic.  Slight change of script.  They left the kids in the creche all day.  They got drunk every night.  They just waited until the next morning to pretend Madeleine had been abducted.  Blah Blah Blah.

Eleanor

It is often protested here that people  'hound'  the McCanns over their childcare arrangements

We are reminded,  frequently how cruel that is,  when these parents have paid the ultimate price for their folly

I am generally mindful of that truth and do not berate them for something that is done now,  and surely regretted

I answered your post,  not because I wished to be critical of the McCann's choices  (  as foolish and selfish as they were )  but because you chose to defend  that which is indefensible

The McCann's care of their children during those nights in Portugal was not adequate ...  it was not alright ...  if it had been there would be three children asleep in their house in Rothley tonight

You simply do not know this.

PS.  Sorry if I sounded a bit pissed off with it all.  I am.  But not necessarily with you.

Not at all 

I understand how passionately some people feel about this sad case

It's the unkindness, don't you see.  I just don't understand this.  I don't understand why people feel they have a right to castigate two devastated parents when The Law has seen fit not to.
It isn't a question of passion.  I simply don't understand this desire to inflict hurt.
No one is perfect.  No one is always entirely in the right.  Please have some compassion.

And it's equally as painful for parents/grandparents of little children to rail against the McCanns, even though they obviously love their children, because they left those children unattended whilst they ate, drank, chatted. Have some compassion for parents who would never dream of letting their children out of their sight, even for a moment. We don't all feel the need to side-line our children while we jog or play tennis.

I've been asked to chill my beans by Admin, and be nice. But all I see is a holiday revolving around the "grown-ups" and the children are some sort of additional trophies to be tidied away except for photo opportunities. Who in their right minds would leave small children in a room with no adults to care for them? With electric sockets, hot taps, windows, cutlery, etc.?

And earache, bad dreams, poorly tummies, waking up and not knowing where they are...if you feel the need to chat shit with your pals, at least be in earshot of your kids. At least be in a position to get to them if they cry. Don't leave them in a strange room if they might wake up.

Don't leave them alone.

[John]

What you say is spot on Shona.  When we were on holiday with our young-ones we would never leave them alone in an apartment unless for a minute or two.  I personally don't know what the hell they were thinking of to do what they did every single night. 

No wonder they left themselves open to attack. 

[icabodcrane]

What you say is spot on Shona.  When we were on holiday with our young-ones we would never leave them alone in an apartment unless for a minute or two.  I personally don't know what the hell they were thinking of to do what they did every single night. 

No wonder they left themselves open to attack.

Yep

Many was the night I lay on on the bed  'colouring in' till they were ready for kip

...  then into the next room,  TV on low,  doors ajar,  and a bottle of wine and late night supper for us

[debunker]

I too would never have done it.

But I accept that different people have different standards; it only becomes my concern if they are breaking the law or I feel that the law should be changed.

You see, I am mature enough to realise that my views on the correctness of their behaviour is of no import- its f all to do with me.

If only others could also take an adult view.

[puglove]

What you say is spot on Shona.  When we were on holiday with our young-ones we would never leave them alone in an apartment unless for a minute or two.  I personally don't know what the hell they were thinking of to do what they did every single night. 

No wonder they left themselves open to attack.

And they suffer, every single moment of every single day. I'm not a [ censored word ], or a flamer, or a pictchforker, or any of that crap. But, maybe, they should have counted their blessings,.

[icabodcrane]

I too would never have done it.

But I accept that different people have different standards; it only becomes my concern if they are breaking the law or I feel that the law should be changed.

You see, I am mature enough to realise that my views on the correctness of their behaviour is of no import- its f all to do with me.

If only others could also take an adult view.

Well ,  congratulations on being more mature than the rest of us

 

[AnneGuedes]

I was always amazed they managed to get their 3 kids asleep at the same time. I never achieved this !

[puglove]

What you say is spot on Shona.  When we were on holiday with our young-ones we would never leave them alone in an apartment unless for a minute or two.  I personally don't know what the hell they were thinking of to do what they did every single night. 

No wonder they left themselves open to attack.

And they suffer, every single moment of every single day. I'm not a [ censored word ], or a flamer, or a pictchforker, or any of that crap. But, maybe, they should have counted their blessings,.

Three small, much wanted, ivf children, left alone in a shitty apartment, with road frontage, while their parents  showed off and talked crap. Explain???

[icabodcrane]

What you say is spot on Shona.  When we were on holiday with our young-ones we would never leave them alone in an apartment unless for a minute or two.  I personally don't know what the hell they were thinking of to do what they did every single night. 

No wonder they left themselves open to attack.

And they suffer, every single moment of every single day. I'm not a [ censored word ], or a flamer, or a pictchforker, or any of that crap. But, maybe, they should have counted their blessings,.

Don't question yourself for your wonderful outlook shona ...  or offer any excuse for it ... please

If everyone took your view,  we'd  be  doing just fine  ...   

[John]

It's hard to explain unless you simply put it down to poor parenting.   

[debunker]

It's hard to explain unless you simply put it down to poor parenting.   

IN your opinion. Other opinions are available.

What they did was not criminal. Just that a lot of people disagree with it.

[AnneGuedes]

No, it was not, I agree. Nevertheless I was always amazed Madeleine's parents didn't hear the alarm bell on the 3rd in the morning.