The Neglect question

[DevilsAdvocate]

This thread has as much bearing on the case of what happened to Madeleine McCann as the question what would have happened had Chamberlain come to a different conclusion in 1938.

I understood this forum was about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Could mods ajudicate please on the relevance of a thread which is wholly speculative and can never under any circumstances bring any light at all to that disappearance?

Why stop at threads Gilet, I have seen far more posts which are wholly speculative and which can never under any circumstance bring any light at all to the disappearance !
Who decides where the line is drawn in the sand ?

[DevilsAdvocate]

Gilet sort your quotes out

ferryman, 14, so totally different, to leaving two two year olds and a three year old isn't it. Chalk and cheese so irrelevant.

Not totally different at all.  Children, all very tired (Kate makes that point) all tucked up in bed sound asleep and being checked on regularly.

Children active and unsupervised at that age, maybe different.

The parallel holds ...

Your argument holds no water Ferryman, there is a chasm a mile wide in the similarities of the situations, a confident 14 year old swimmer, swimming in a sea of no currents and a 3 year old child sleeping in an unlocked apartment, hardly a relevant comparison !

[ferryman]

Gilet sort your quotes out

ferryman, 14, so totally different, to leaving two two year olds and a three year old isn't it. Chalk and cheese so irrelevant.

Not totally different at all.  Children, all very tired (Kate makes that point) all tucked up in bed sound asleep and being checked on regularly.

Children active and unsupervised at that age, maybe different.

The parallel holds ...

Your argument holds no water Ferryman, there is a chasm a mile wide in the similarities of the situations, a confident 14 year old swimmer, swimming in a sea of no currents and a 3 year old child sleeping in an unlocked apartment, hardly a relevant comparison !

Why not? 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Gilet sort your quotes out

ferryman, 14, so totally different, to leaving two two year olds and a three year old isn't it. Chalk and cheese so irrelevant.

Not totally different at all.  Children, all very tired (Kate makes that point) all tucked up in bed sound asleep and being checked on regularly.

Children active and unsupervised at that age, maybe different.

The parallel holds ...

Your argument holds no water Ferryman, there is a chasm a mile wide in the similarities of the situations, a confident 14 year old swimmer, swimming in a sea of no currents and a 3 year old child sleeping in an unlocked apartment, hardly a relevant comparison !

Why not?

Well Feryman it was your original portrayal of a Cypriot vacation (very vividly retold and recounted) that you fondly proffered as a like scenario so maybe you should explain further to the avid readers of your words how you reconcile both situations in a like minded fashion !

[icabodcrane]

This thread has as much bearing on the case of what happened to Madeleine McCann as the question what would have happened had Chamberlain come to a different conclusion in 1938.

I understood this forum was about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Could mods ajudicate please on the relevance of a thread which is wholly speculative and can never under any circumstances bring any light at all to that disappearance?

I should have thought the  relevence is quite clear

None of us  know,  with certainty,  that Madeleine was abducted

As far as we know,  the Portuguese police who believed  the child died as the result of an accident  and an abduction subsequently staged  might  be right  (  it wasn't only Amaral who held that belief )

I have always had difficulty believing the McCanns would go to those extremes in order to cover up what was an accident'  afterall

That's why I posed the question  ...  Had there been a serious  (  or even fatal )  accident whilst the children were left alone,  would the McCanns have faced negligence charges  (  and the prison term that would come with  it )

[ferryman]

Gilet sort your quotes out

ferryman, 14, so totally different, to leaving two two year olds and a three year old isn't it. Chalk and cheese so irrelevant.

Not totally different at all.  Children, all very tired (Kate makes that point) all tucked up in bed sound asleep and being checked on regularly.

Children active and unsupervised at that age, maybe different.

The parallel holds ...

Your argument holds no water Ferryman, there is a chasm a mile wide in the similarities of the situations, a confident 14 year old swimmer, swimming in a sea of no currents and a 3 year old child sleeping in an unlocked apartment, hardly a relevant comparison !

Why not?

Well Feryman it was your original portrayal of a Cypriot vacation (very vividly retold and recounted) that you fondly proffered as a like scenario so maybe you should explain further to the avid readers of your words how you reconcile both situations in a like minded fashion !

You need to equate relative age with relative activity (or lack of it)  3 very tired children tucked up in bed and checked on regularly (all external factors being equal) are very unlikely to come to any sort of predictable harm.

The likelihood of an intruder might be (relatively) high; the odds of an intruder of a mind to snatch a child extremely remote.

[DevilsAdvocate]

This thread has as much bearing on the case of what happened to Madeleine McCann as the question what would have happened had Chamberlain come to a different conclusion in 1938.

I understood this forum was about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Could mods ajudicate please on the relevance of a thread which is wholly speculative and can never under any circumstances bring any light at all to that disappearance?

I should have thought the  relevence is quite clear

None of us  know,  with certainty,  that Madeleine was abducted

As far as we know,  the Portuguese police who believed  the child died as the result of an accident  and an abduction subsequently staged  might  be right  (  it wasn't only Amaral who held that belief )

I have always had difficulty believing the McCanns would go to those extremes in order to cover up what was an accident'  afterall

That's why I posed the question  ...  Had there been a serious  (  or even fatal )  accident whilst the children were left alone,  would the McCanns have faced negligence charges  (  and the prison term that would come with  it )

That is a fair defence of your original OP, in my view it is a question worth debating. To whit, it is by choice of the individual whether one chooses to enter said debate ! If you do, do ! If you don't, don't ! But don't go running to admin crying about the relevance of an OP, simply abstain !

[DevilsAdvocate]

Gilet sort your quotes out

ferryman, 14, so totally different, to leaving two two year olds and a three year old isn't it. Chalk and cheese so irrelevant.

Not totally different at all.  Children, all very tired (Kate makes that point) all tucked up in bed sound asleep and being checked on regularly.

Children active and unsupervised at that age, maybe different.

The parallel holds ...

Your argument holds no water Ferryman, there is a chasm a mile wide in the similarities of the situations, a confident 14 year old swimmer, swimming in a sea of no currents and a 3 year old child sleeping in an unlocked apartment, hardly a relevant comparison !

Why not?

Well Feryman it was your original portrayal of a Cypriot vacation (very vividly retold and recounted) that you fondly proffered as a like scenario so maybe you should explain further to the avid readers of your words how you reconcile both situations in a like minded fashion !

You need to equate relative age with relative activity (or lack of it)  3 very tired children tucked up in bed and checked on regularly (all external factors being equal) are very unlikely to come to any sort of predictable harm.

The likelihood of an intruder might be (relatively) high; the odds of an intruder of a mind to snatch a child extremely remote.

Hi Ferryman, I have been blessed with four children of my own ranging in age from 11 to 5, all my children, without exception, up to the age of at least four regularly woke during the night and claimed their place in our bed, this happened time after time each night as my husband and I trained them to sleep in their own bed.
This night time routine continued year after year and whilst we holidayed abroad and even after our children had long exhausting days.
To try to convincingly compare the sleeping patterns of a 14 year old child to those of children 3 years and younger shows a distinct lack of understanding on your part.

[ferryman]

What you have done is to relate your own experience (of raising children) and claimed it as prescriptive.

It is not.

[DevilsAdvocate]

What you have done is to relate your own experience (of raising children) and claimed it as prescriptive.

It is not.

Ferryman it is descriptive, not prescriptive ! Any parent reading this forum will surely agree that children will wake during the night and seek refuge in their parents bed, it is a natural stage of childhood !

[ferryman]

It is a stage of childhood some children go through and not others.

Kate in her book describes Madeleine as (initially) a poor sleeper, awake and restive at night.

If that had still been true on that PdL holiday, what the McCanns did would, indeed, have been irresponsible.

It wasn't.

[Admin]

Every child is different and ever different child is also different at different ages.  Hope that makes sense.

You cannot compare a 3-year-old with a 14-year-old unless the latter has learning difficulties.   

[DevilsAdvocate]

It is a stage of childhood some children go through and not others.

Kate in her book describes Madeleine as (initially) a poor sleeper, awake and restive at night.

If that had still been true on that PdL holiday, what the McCanns did would, indeed, have been irresponsible.

It wasn't.

So are you suggesting that Madeleine had progressed beyond this stage ? And are you also suggesting that Sean & Amelie had also progressed beyond this stage ?

[DevilsAdvocate]

Every child is different and ever different child is also different at different ages.  Hope that makes sense.

You cannot compare a 3-year-old with a 14-year-old unless the latter has learning difficulties.   

My point exactly admin, and succinctly observed, thank you.

[ferryman]

Every child is different and ever different child is also different at different ages.  Hope that makes sense.

You cannot compare a 3-year-old with a 14-year-old unless the latter has learning difficulties.   

I think you can make a comparison, so long as the balance is the level of activity or inactivity. A 14 year old is more autonomous and safer to be left without supervision in potentially dangerous situations.  Most 14 year olds can cross roads safely; 4 year olds, may be not.

3 year olds or younger, looked in on regularly, should be fairly safe if you size up your children as sound sleepers and especially if you gauge that they are very tired when you put them to bed.