McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights

[jassi]

Allow a week to sort things out. I can't see how a full reconstruction of the events could be re-enacted in just one night.

I quite agree.
There would need to be multiple re-runs, as various people would say say " no that doesn't work, it must have been a few minutes earlier/later". Eventually, with a lot of tweaking, it might just all work - or maybe not

All my own opinion, of course.

[Mr Gray]

I think its clear there are quite a lot of areas where the MCCanns may well have legitimite grounds to appeal to the ECHR and its not hust the simple face saving exercise some think it is

[Carana]

Could they all agree to do a reconstruction now and put it behind them?

What for? The PJ have clearly said they aren't suspects. And haven't been for 10 years.

[G-Unit]

I think its clear there are quite a lot of areas where the MCCanns may well have legitimite grounds to appeal to the ECHR and its not hust the simple face saving exercise some think it is

Clear to you, perhaps. Could you please point out these various areas and legitimate grounds?

[Mr Gray]

Clear to you, perhaps. Could you please point out these various areas and legitimate grounds?

Defamation and presumption of innocence.

[Mr Gray]

Clear to you, perhaps. Could you please point out these various areas and legitimate grounds?

something else you dont seem to have an answer for.......the case was archived under article 271/1.....yet was reopened.....how is that possible given your understanding

[Mr Gray]

This is a very important point and has not yet been explained...G-unit says the case could not be opened...Carana says it could...as it actually was i would appreciate G-unit's explanation

[carlymichelle]

ahha   bit of tension around here today posters do not have to   explain anything to  anyone imo

[Robittybob1]

perhaps you are not following the debate...this is a very important point and has not yet been explained...gunit says the case could not be opened...carana says it could...as it actually was i would appreciate gunits explanation

Well why don't you research it and explain it in full rather than just saying the same thing over and over again.

[Mr Gray]

Well why don't you research it and explain it in full rather than just saying the same thing over and over again.

I have asked gunit a question....if you can answer it fine then do...otherwise let gunit speak for herself. This question has not been answered...once again you are derailing threads...

[G-Unit]

something else you dont seem to have an answer for.......the case was archived under article 271/1.....yet was reopened.....how is that possible given your understanding

I seem to have more answers than you do my friend.

The McCann's lawyers seemed to have a problem with the reviewing and reopening of the investigation too. They appear to be arguing that only brand new information which wasn't in the existing files could be used to reopen the investigation. Not only that, the new information had to invalidate the grounds invoked by the Public Ministry in the filing order.

As I understand it, the grounds invoked (277/1) were that sufficient evidence had been gathered to show  "that the arguido did not practice it in any way"

So what new information did the PJ discover or receive which changed that? I suppose only time will tell.

Article 277 - Archiving of the investigation

1 - The Public Ministry shall, by dispatch, close the investigation, as soon as it has gathered sufficient evidence that the crime was not confirmed, that the arguido did not practice it in any way or that the procedure is legally inadmissible

Article 279 - Reopening of the investigation

1. Once the period referred to in the previous article has expired, the investigation may be reopened only if new evidence appears to invalidate the grounds invoked by the Public Ministry in the filing order.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

According to the Policia Judiciaria they conducted a review of the material gathered by the archived investigation;

That reanalysis task, which took place during the last two and a half years, helped identify new evidence
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id466.htm

According to the McCann's lawyers;

the invalidation of the grounds invoked by the Public Ministry's office in the filing order, made under the provisions of article 277-1 of the CPP, can only be based on new facts or elements of evidence unknown by the Public Ministry at the investigation’s time (11) and that, therefore, could not be presented and produced in order to be assessed and pondered in the decision.

However, inside the factual matter established as proved in the minutes, there is no fact capable of constituting ground for the review or reopening of the investigation
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

[Alice Purjorick]

ahha   bit of tension around here today posters do not have to   explain anything to  anyone imo

The gentleman has yet to respond to this in post #1473
"Precisely how do you believe the McCann's right to a presumption of innocence has been denied or infringed?"

[Mr Gray]

I seem to have more answers than you do my friend.

The McCann's lawyers seemed to have a problem with the reviewing and reopening of the investigation too. They appear to be arguing that only brand new information which wasn't in the existing files could be used to reopen the investigation. Not only that, the new information had to invalidate the grounds invoked by the Public Ministry in the filing order.

As I understand it, the grounds invoked (277/1) were that sufficient evidence had been gathered to show  "that the arguido did not practice it in any way"

So what new information did the PJ discover or receive which changed that? I suppose only time will tell.

Article 277 - Archiving of the investigation

1 - The Public Ministry shall, by dispatch, close the investigation, as soon as it has gathered sufficient evidence that the crime was not confirmed, that the arguido did not practice it in any way or that the procedure is legally inadmissible

Article 279 - Reopening of the investigation

1. Once the period referred to in the previous article has expired, the investigation may be reopened only if new evidence appears to invalidate the grounds invoked by the Public Ministry in the filing order.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

According to the Policia Judiciaria they conducted a review of the material gathered by the archived investigation;

That reanalysis task, which took place during the last two and a half years, helped identify new evidence
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id466.htm

According to the McCann's lawyers;

the invalidation of the grounds invoked by the Public Ministry's office in the filing order, made under the provisions of article 277-1 of the CPP, can only be based on new facts or elements of evidence unknown by the Public Ministry at the investigation’s time (11) and that, therefore, could not be presented and produced in order to be assessed and pondered in the decision.

However, inside the factual matter established as proved in the minutes, there is no fact capable of constituting ground for the review or reopening of the investigation
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

But the investigation was re opened...can you explain how it was possible as it was archived under 277/1

[Brietta]

I seem to have more answers than you do my friend.

The McCann's lawyers seemed to have a problem with the reviewing and reopening of the investigation too. They appear to be arguing that only brand new information which wasn't in the existing files could be used to reopen the investigation. Not only that, the new information had to invalidate the grounds invoked by the Public Ministry in the filing order.

As I understand it, the grounds invoked (277/1) were that sufficient evidence had been gathered to show  "that the arguido did not practice it in any way"

So what new information did the PJ discover or receive which changed that? I suppose only time will tell.

Article 277 - Archiving of the investigation

1 - The Public Ministry shall, by dispatch, close the investigation, as soon as it has gathered sufficient evidence that the crime was not confirmed, that the arguido did not practice it in any way or that the procedure is legally inadmissible

Article 279 - Reopening of the investigation

1. Once the period referred to in the previous article has expired, the investigation may be reopened only if new evidence appears to invalidate the grounds invoked by the Public Ministry in the filing order.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

According to the Policia Judiciaria they conducted a review of the material gathered by the archived investigation;

That reanalysis task, which took place during the last two and a half years, helped identify new evidence
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id466.htm

According to the McCann's lawyers;

the invalidation of the grounds invoked by the Public Ministry's office in the filing order, made under the provisions of article 277-1 of the CPP, can only be based on new facts or elements of evidence unknown by the Public Ministry at the investigation’s time (11) and that, therefore, could not be presented and produced in order to be assessed and pondered in the decision.

However, inside the factual matter established as proved in the minutes, there is no fact capable of constituting ground for the review or reopening of the investigation
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

  ... and yet ... the fact remains that the Portuguese authorities reopened Madeleine's case in 2013.

[Mr Gray]

The gentleman has yet to respond to this in post #1473
"Precisely how do you believe the McCann's right to a presumption of innocence has been denied or infringed?"

we have already been through all this and disagree so I dont see the point in going through it again...