Why was Nevill Bamber in the kitchen?

[G-Unit]

Jeremy had probably already shot June dead at that stage, or so he thought, and as the last four bullets didn’t kill Nevill that rendered Jeremy unarmed.

So that’s THAT theory of yours blown out the water, because if Jeremy had more bullets in the gun he’d have fired even more into Nevill as he raced down the stairs...

You also seem to think Nevill couldn’t have disarmed Sheila, but that too is ridiculous

Nevill was huge in comparison to Sheila, and the gun was so long — which means he’d have easily been able to disarm her by simply heaving it away and out of her grasp

She was as weak as a kitten; found it hard to focus; was unable to even stir coffee without spilling it — and more crucially, had absolutely no experience of using that rifle which Nevill had bought just months previously. In fact, Sheila had no experience of guns at all. So your argument is of no value whatsoever

Although it's known how many times each person was shot it's not known in what order the shots were fired so it's not possible imo to say when the bullets ran out.

I have no theory about who did it so far; I'm exploring possibilities, that's all. I think it's possible that Nevill made one or even two phone calls before he was injured.

By the way for those mentioning door keys; according to CAL's book the front door was barred and the back door was secured with a key in a mortice lock. The door leading out from the scullery was also bolted (with three bolts).

[Caroline]

Although it's known how many times each person was shot it's not known in what order the shots were fired so it's not possible imo to say when the bullets ran out.

I have no theory about who did it so far; I'm exploring possibilities, that's all. I think it's possible that Nevill made one or even two phone calls before he was injured.

By the way for those mentioning door keys; according to CAL's book the front door was barred and the back door was secured with a key in a mortice lock. The door leading out from the scullery was also bolted (with three bolts).

And?

[Holly Goodhead]

It is possible to deduce a number of pointers:

- The magazine holds a max of 10 cartridges plus a bullet in the breach ie total of 11. 

- The pathologist was of the opinion the gsw's sustained by the twins were inflicted in quick succession.  The same applies to the gsw's inflicted to NB's head in the kitchen where any one immobilised him immediately.

- The 6 gsw's sustained by June allowed her to move around  the bed and back before she sustained the two gunshot wounds to the head where either immobilised her immediately.

The only really contentious aspect and/or aspect that can support the defence and undermine the prosecution is NB/perp location when NB sustained his upstairs gsw's.

Did JB enter the main bedroom and inflict the 6 gsw's to June and 4 to NB meaning NB was incapable of purposeful speech thereafter?  Or did NB tel JB from the kitchen with SC going upstairs opening fire on June, NB hearing the shots dropping the phone, running upstairs and sustaining the two facial gunshot wounds on the landing stairs whilst SC was stood just inside the entrance with the barrel extending outside onto the landing?

I believe its the latter supported by all the physical evidence at soc.  I am not interested in what others think NB would or wouldn't have done.  Or what others think SC was or wasn't  capable of.  I'm only interested in the physical evidence and my interpretation of it is that NB sustained the facials shots on the landing whilst SC was firing out from the bedroom.

[Caroline]

It is possible to deduce a number of pointers:

- The magazine holds a max of 10 cartridges plus a bullet in the breach ie total of 11. 

- The pathologist was of the opinion the gsw's sustained by the twins were inflicted in quick succession.  The same applies to the gsw's inflicted to NB's head in the kitchen where any one immobilised him immediately.

- The 6 gsw's sustained by June allowed her to move around  the bed and back before she sustained the two gunshot wounds to the head where either immobilised her immediately.

The only really contentious aspect and/or aspect that can support the defence and undermine the prosecution is NB/perp location when NB sustained his upstairs gsw's.

Did JB enter the main bedroom and inflict the 6 gsw's to June and 4 to NB meaning NB was incapable of purposeful speech thereafter?  Or did NB tel JB from the kitchen with SC going upstairs opening fire on June, NB hearing the shots dropping the phone, running upstairs and sustaining the two facial gunshot wounds on the landing stairs whilst SC was stood just inside the entrance with the barrel extending outside onto the landing?

I believe its the latter supported by all the physical evidence at soc.  I am not interested in what others think NB would or wouldn't have done.  Or what others think SC was or wasn't  capable of.  I'm only interested in the physical evidence and my interpretation of it is that NB sustained the facials shots on the landing whilst SC was firing out from the bedroom.

You're only interested in the physical evidence if it fits with what you want it to mean. You have ignored the dried blood on SC face which proved her head was flat to the floor.

[Holly Goodhead]

Jeremy had probably already shot June dead at that stage, or so he thought, and as the last four bullets didn’t kill Nevill that rendered Jeremy unarmed.

So that’s THAT theory of yours blown out the water, because if Jeremy had more bullets in the gun he’d have fired even more into Nevill as he raced down the stairs...

You also seem to think Nevill couldn’t have disarmed Sheila, but that too is ridiculous

Nevill was huge in comparison to Sheila, and the gun was so long — which means he’d have easily been able to disarm her by simply heaving it away and out of her grasp

She was as weak as a kitten; found it hard to focus; was unable to even stir coffee without spilling it — and more crucially, had absolutely no experience of using that rifle which Nevill had bought just months previously. In fact, Sheila had no experience of guns at all. So your argument is of no value whatsoever

With regard to your claim SC was unable to stir coffee without spilling it I have pointed out previously the high standard of her manicured and polished nails.  I have not seen any evidence that others completed this task for her whether professionals or otherwise.  You said someone in Maida Vale did them and I've asked you who and to provide evidence/cite/source but to date nothing has been forthcoming.

[Holly Goodhead]

You're only interested in the physical evidence if it fits with what you want it to mean. You have ignored the dried blood on SC face which proved her head was flat to the floor.

The blood on SC's face has nothing to do with where NB sustained his facial wounds.

I believe after SC inflicted the second gsw her head fell back and was raised against the bedside cabinet.  Blood then pooled in the back of her throat/mouth and when officers pulled her down by her feet her head fell to the floor and dislodged the blood which leaked from orifices as depicted on soc images.  It also explains:

- Why those first at soc only saw one gsw (and possibly one casing)
- Why the large blood stain on the carpet doesn't follow the blood stain from her armpit

[Angelo222]

The blood on SC's face has nothing to do with where NB sustained his facial wounds.

I believe after SC inflicted the second gsw her head fell back and was raised against the bedside cabinet.  Blood then pooled in the back of her throat/mouth and when officers pulled her down by her feet her head fell to the floor and dislodged the blood which leaked from orifices as depicted on soc images.  It also explains:

- Why those first at soc only saw one gsw (and possibly one casing)
- Why the large blood stain on the carpet doesn't follow the blood stain from her armpit

Could I please shoot you in the throat with a .22 rifle at point blank range Holly and see if you get up?

[Caroline]

With regard to your claim SC was unable to stir coffee without spilling it I have pointed out previously the high standard of her manicured and polished nails. I have not seen any evidence that others completed this task for her whether professionals or otherwise. You said someone in Maida Vale did them and I've asked you who and to provide evidence/cite/source but to date nothing has been forthcoming.

Nor have you seen any evidence that they didn't.

[Caroline]

The blood on SC's face has nothing to do with where NB sustained his facial wounds.

I believe after SC inflicted the second gsw her head fell back and was raised against the bedside cabinet.  Blood then pooled in the back of her throat/mouth and when officers pulled her down by her feet her head fell to the floor and dislodged the blood which leaked from orifices as depicted on soc images.  It also explains:

- Why those first at soc only saw one gsw (and possibly one casing)
- Why the large blood stain on the carpet doesn't follow the blood stain from her armpit

So how does that go with (your star witness) Woodcock describing the blood on her face when he entered the bedroom?

Again, your preferred witness 'Woodcock' reported TWO bullet holes under her chin and he was one of the first to enter the bedroom.

The bloodstain on the carpet is consistent with Bamber moving the body. However, blood tested on the carpet was found to be June's - can't see why they wouldn't have tested the large patch.

[Holly Goodhead]

So how does that go with (your star witness) Woodcock describing the blood on her face when he entered the bedroom?

He states blood was leaking from both sides of her mouth down her cheeks. Which supports the idea blood had pooled in her throat/mouth and when SC was pulled by her feet her head was dislodged from the bedside cabinet falling flat to the floor and blood started to leak:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=251

Again, your preferred witness 'Woodcock' reported TWO bullet holes under her chin and he was one of the first to enter the bedroom.

He was also one of the last to leave too!

The bloodstain on the carpet is consistent with Bamber moving the body. However, blood tested on the carpet was found to be June's - can't see why they wouldn't have tested the large patch.

How is the blood stain consistent with JB moving body?

Two carpet samples were taken for testing from around the areas where SC's and June's feet were found. The large stain under the bible was not tested.

[Caroline]

He states blood was leaking from both sides of her mouth down her cheeks. Which supports the idea blood had pooled in her throat/mouth and when SC was pulled by her feet her head was dislodged from the bedside cabinet falling flat to the floor and blood started to leak:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=251
 

He was also one of the last to leave too!

How is the blood stain consistent with JB moving body?

Two carpet samples were taken for testing from around the areas where SC's and June's feet were found. The large stain under the bible was not tested.

It doesn't matter how much you try and twist this Holly, Woodcock is describing what he saw when he initially saw
Sheila, not when he left. If anyone had pulled her feet at that juncture, it was Bamber but her head couldn't have been raised or the blood would have run down the sides of her chin and there would ne none in her eye socket.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Whichever way you slice it Nevill left the person with the gun in the main bedroom with his wife. You don't know why and neither do I. Perhaps he made to disarm that person and got shot four times in return. Do you think he would have kept on going in the face of that regardless of who was holding the gun? It was the gun stopping him, not the size or sex of the person holding it, surely? He probably did go to find a weapon, but he didn't mamage it.

You’re simply assuming Nevill left the person with the gun in the bedroom with June, which means if he did, then he knew he had no chance of overpowering that person — which completely rules out Sheila...

Thank you for highlighting that possibility.

The more you analyse it the more evident it is that it couldn't possibly have been Sheila with that gun.

It looks very much like after Jeremy shot June in the bed she managed to get up and make her way towards the door to try and help Nevill, who would have been struggling with Jeremy and it was at that point Jeremy shot her between her eyes killing her immediately as she approached the door. He then shot Nevill with the last four bullets he had in the gun as he approached the stairs.

It’s very simple to work out, actually...I don’t know why you have difficulty with it.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Although it's known how many times each person was shot it's not known in what order the shots were fired so it's not possible imo to say when the bullets ran out.

I have no theory about who did it so far; I'm exploring possibilities, that's all. I think it's possible that Nevill made one or even two phone calls before he was injured.

By the way for those mentioning door keys; according to CAL's book the front door was barred and the back door was secured with a key in a mortice lock. The door leading out from the scullery was also bolted (with three bolts).

Well, in that case then, as the front door was barred and the back door secured with a key in the mortice lock; plus the door leading out from the scullery being secured with three big bolts — how did Nevill expect Jeremy to get not house and save them?

Or are you suggesting he shouted to Sheila upstairs saying: “Don't shoot anyone else yet, darling, I need to go and unbolt the doors as Jeremy is coming over in about 20 minutes to disarm you”.

For goodness sake, this was a dire emergency!

Nevill would have no more phoned Jeremy than he would have poured a G&T, lit a cigarette, then calmly sat down to think about the situation while Sheila was going “berserk” upstairs.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

With regard to your claim SC was unable to stir coffee without spilling it I have pointed out previously the high standard of her manicured and polished nails.  I have not seen any evidence that others completed this task for her whether professionals or otherwise.  You said someone in Maida Vale did them and I've asked you who and to provide evidence/cite/source but to date nothing has been forthcoming.

I’d forgotten all about that, Holly...

I have seen the evidence that Sheila used both a manicurist, including a hairdresser — I shall find it

As you rightly say, the high standard of her perfectly manicured & polished nails would be difficult to achieve by anyone, even if they didn’t suffer from shaky/trembling hands. You’re a woman — you must know that, surely?

Nail bars sprung up everywhere in the early 1980’s and almost all fashion conscious women who enjoyed having their hair done; nails done; wearing make-up etc took pride in having long, glamorous fingernails — just as Sheila did. She was very conscious of her looks and liked to look nice, and except for her low times when she lost interest in her appearance, she always made sure her hair and nails looked lovely.

She was a beautiful girl, so why wouldn’t she take pride in her looks?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

The blood on SC's face has nothing to do with where NB sustained his facial wounds.

I believe after SC inflicted the second gsw her head fell back and was raised against the bedside cabinet.  Blood then pooled in the back of her throat/mouth and when officers pulled her down by her feet her head fell to the floor and dislodged the blood which leaked from orifices as depicted on soc images.  It also explains:

- Why those first at soc only saw one gsw (and possibly one casing)
- Why the large blood stain on the carpet doesn't follow the blood stain from her armpit

You seem to forget that Sheila’s arms were too short to reach the trigger — have you forgotten that?

As for suggesting the police pulled her down — why on Earth would they have done that? There was no point. Besides which, police keep victims in situ until photographs are taken. Your theory is completely skewed.

Not only is it skewed, but how could the pool of blood in her throat pour out underneath the Bible?

You’re defying physics now.