Author Topic: Madeleine McCann alive?  (Read 24411 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #150 on: March 11, 2019, 03:33:49 PM »
Does it take me to say that Amaral needed Kate and Gerry to be culpable?  Either, or both, depending on who could have done this alone or together.  And without any help.

Amaral was already in some sort of trouble. Are we supposed to forget that this happened.

To say that Amaral should never have been even remotely involved in the Case of the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann is somewhat disgusting.  How on earth did that happen?  Who allowed this to happen?  The hierarchy knew what was going on, and they still left Amaral in charge.

I will forever remain gobsmacked by their stupidity.

He was PJ coordinator for that area, it was his job.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #151 on: March 11, 2019, 03:35:06 PM »
Amaral knew that Kate and Gerry could not have accomplished the disappearance of the body of their daughter without the help of someone local.  It was that simple.

...or with the help of someone not so local.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Brietta

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #152 on: March 11, 2019, 03:43:04 PM »
He was PJ coordinator for that area, it was his job.
I don't think his skill set was up to it.  Rebelo introduced the relevant specialists to the investigation. The accusations against him ... later proved ... which resulted in him being made an arguido on the 4th of May were of a nature and about a case which would have made it wise to replace him from Madeleine's case.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #153 on: March 11, 2019, 03:45:36 PM »
He was PJ coordinator for that area, it was his job.

Amaral was about to go off on holiday.  Sofia was a bit pissed off at the time.

Amaral volunteered.  Was there no one else?  Just one Coordinator for the whole of The Algarve?  Sheesh,  God help them all.  A man who was already about to be made an Arguido himself.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #154 on: March 11, 2019, 03:48:00 PM »
...or with the help of someone not so local.

Who might that be?  There are times when you kill me,  academically, of course.

Offline Brietta

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #155 on: March 11, 2019, 03:50:07 PM »
Have you forgotten who conveniently pointed the finger at Murat?  Tanner claimed that his gait was the same as the man she claimed to have seen carrying a young child and two others from the tapas group claimed to have seen him outside Ocean Club on the night that Maddie disappeared.  Are you asking us to believe that this wasn't all discussed by the tapas group before it was reported to the police?

Amaral was there when the McCanns were interviewed.

According to Jane's rogatory statement there was no general discussion of her sighting ... which she told the police about as soon as she could when they arrived on the scene.
Why would the tapas group discuss Amaral.  They didn't know him.  They didn't know where he lived.  Jane certainly never ID him.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #156 on: March 11, 2019, 04:36:22 PM »
According to Jane's rogatory statement there was no general discussion of her sighting ... which she told the police about as soon as she could when they arrived on the scene.
Why would the tapas group discuss Amaral.  They didn't know him.  They didn't know where he lived.  Jane certainly never ID him.

In my opinion Jane Tanner never ID'd Robert Murat.

Amaral?  Who killed his dog I don't actually know.  But never have I seen such assumptions from someone who should have known better than to assume.

I remain totally bemused by how Amaral could have one to his conclusions, or even have been allowed to do so.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 07:22:51 PM by John »

Offline misty

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #157 on: March 11, 2019, 04:37:30 PM »
Have you forgotten who conveniently pointed the finger at Murat?  Tanner claimed that his gait was the same as the man she claimed to have seen carrying a young child and two others from the tapas group claimed to have seen him outside Ocean Club on the night that Maddie disappeared.  Are you asking us to believe that this wasn't all discussed by the tapas group before it was reported to the police?

Amaral was there when the McCanns were interviewed.

Why do you think Jane was asked to ID Murat in the first place? He was already under suspicion as detailed in the files "case against Robert Murat...http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm

 
snipped

461 to 462 Letter detailing anonymous denouncement of Robert Murat
TRANSLATED BY ALBYM
02-Processos Volume II pages 461 to 462
02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_461

02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_462
02-Processos Volume II  PJ Record 8th May 2007-
At about 20.00 the police received a phone call from a number that could not be identified, from a person with a female voice speaking in correct Portuguese, who did not want to be identified for reasons of safety. She refers to an individual who abducted Madeleine, who knows how to keep quiet and is quite close to the police. When asked who she was referring to she said it was an individual who resides in Praia da Luz, who has an English mother, who speaks this language very well, who was near the area since the disappearance of the little girl, supposedly with the intention of helping the investigation. She said this man was called Robert and that he used to consult Internet chats of a pretty heavy sexual nature. He would also use Internet for contacts with different acquaintances he had in other countries, especially in the UK. She said most of the mails he sent were encrypted due to the monitoring of the kind of content they possessed. This is why she wanted to alert the authorities about the characteristics of this man, who, in her opinion, could have sexual motives and opportunity, knowing the area perfectly for   committing or collaborating in this type of crime.

957 to 958 External diligence carried out in the OC 2007.05.11
TRANSLATION BY INES

04-Processos Vol IV Pages 957 - 958
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_957
 
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_958
 
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_959
 
External Inquiry Report

Date. 2007-05-11

Place: Ocean Club, P da L.

Responsible Officers: Officers Joao Carlos and Luis Pereira

Description and Result:

Systematically analysed with the elements contained in the investigation that indicate how the action could eventually have occurred, the possibility of placing different valid hypotheses referring to the process of the action was concluded, it being the case that in all the equated scenarios, the direction of the escape route taken by the author (abductor) was questioned.

It should be remembered that Jane Tanner's witness statement confirms having seen and individual carrying a child, who would have left from Block 5 A and turned to the right, walking along Rua Agostinho da Silva and crossing the road at the junction with Rua Direita, where the entrance to the Tapas restaurant is situated, the route used by the parents when checking on the children, in this way placing himself at greater exposure.

In effect, if the action had been planned, the author should have - bearing in mind the physical space - chosen the contrary direction as his escape route, where there was a parking area at a distance of 20 metres, which would have been a discreet way to enable him to leave the scene unnoticed.

Given this reasoning, it was judged appropriate to visit the scene, in order to see the geographical viability of the correct perception of the events, or at least the closest possible approximation regarding their truth.

It was immediately possible to note that the Casa Liliana house, situated in Rua da Ramalhete, P da L, Lagos, owned by Robert Murat, could also de designated as Casa Liliana, situated on Rua Agostinho Silva, or in other words, situated in the same road as Block 5, precisely in the direction taken by the suspicious individual, described in Jane Tanner's witness account.

An image of the site is attached with indications relating to the above description.

Comment by the officer responsible for the inquiry:

Excepting superior opinion, the fact that had not been explained, concerning the abductor's escape route, would be clarified in the case that it were possible to report that the author (abductor) lives or has access to some space next to the site, namely in the direction in which an individual was seen to be leaving.

Signed 

Attached map: 959

960 to 961 Results of informal conversation with Robert Murat 2007.05.11
TRANSLATION BY ALBYM

04-PROCESSO 4 - 960 to 961
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_960
 
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_961
 
Translators note - -
I must make it clear that this officer, while doing his clear professional duty, was, of necessity, couching much of his statement in a very diplomatic manner. Some of his phrasing I have managed to keep word-for-word, whereas other parts I have had to cut directly to the chase because it is simply too tortuous for me to convert word-for-word into English.
As usual my inline explanatory comments are in square brackets.

Processo page 960-961

Service Information document dated 11 May 2007 from Inspector Pedro Varanda relating to an informal conversation with Robert Murat

As you will know, Sir, on this day at 11h30, there appeared before the undersigned and (lady) Inspector Patricia Duarte, a British citizen called Diane Webster, holder of UK passport XXXXXXX, in order to hear her witness statement.

In the course of an informal approach that proceeded that work, it was determined that she was not conversant in Portuguese, written or spoken, and the service of an English-speaking interpreter was therefore called for.

In this function appeared a British citizen, Robert J.Q.E. Murat (duly identified in the files from previous work), official resident of Casa Liliana, Rua Ramalhete, Praia da Luz, Lagos.

The work [the DW interview] being concluded, and during an informal conversation that the undersigned began with that interpreter (as would be characteristic in this type of situation), Robert Murat displayed an unusual curiosity about the investigation that was developing around the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann that occurred on 3 May 2007.

As an example, it will be proper to point out that he has insistently and repeatedly questioned me about the identity of possible suspects, about the strategy outlined by the lead coordinator of the investigation and the work that might possibly have been considered for the coming days.
Before [faced with] such an attitude, that was so unusual and absolutely inappropriate that I immediately became highly suspicious, I always countered [ducked the questions], insistently requesting that person to be aware of the contractual duties pertaining to the role which he has assumed in this investigation, pointing out that it was presently the inquiry phase, and, naturally, covered by judicial secrecy.

The above mentioned suspicions were made even stronger when I realized that Robert Murat was trying, in a persistent and dissimulated manner, to look at the various procedural documents that compose the present enquiry while I was consulting them in preparation for the Dianne Webster interview.

Finally, and in the sense of reiterating the suspicious attitude shown by Robert Murat, I venture still to state that, beyond having manifested an enormous knowledge about the dynamics inherent in the functioning of the "Ocean Club Garden" (in which the events under investigation had taken place) and of the routines followed by the McCann family and their companions during their respective stays in in Praia da Luz, he has tried persistently to influence the conduct of the present investigation, suggesting various analyses the agreement with which [i.e. had they agreed to follow those suggested lines of inquiry] could be intended to impute the consummation of the present illegal act [the missing child] to foreign third parties [i.e. to put the blame on, or to attribute the blame to, outside foreigners].

The above being exposed [laid bare] - and without intending in any way to place in question the competence of the above individual, nor the slightest imputation that that [my suspicions] was what he wanted to be [actually intended to do] - I have to bring the above incidents to your attention, in order for you to determine what may be appropriate.11 May 2007
Inspector
Pedro Varanda

=============================================================

Jane was not asked to take part in the "identification parade" until 13th May 2007.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #158 on: March 11, 2019, 07:17:01 PM »
According to Jane's rogatory statement there was no general discussion of her sighting ... which she told the police about as soon as she could when they arrived on the scene.
Why would the tapas group discuss Amaral.  They didn't know him.  They didn't know where he lived.  Jane certainly never ID him.

Jane Tanner: I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.

LP: 4078    “No”.

Jane Tanner: Reply    “But I just thought it was”.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline John

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #159 on: March 11, 2019, 07:25:04 PM »
Jane Tanner: I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.

LP: 4078    “No”.

Jane Tanner: Reply    “But I just thought it was”.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Classic Jane  $65*

From this I infer she still thought it was him but was scared to admit it.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #160 on: March 11, 2019, 07:54:48 PM »
Classic Jane  $65*

From this I infer she still thought it was him but was scared to admit it.
How many times??!
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Brietta

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #161 on: March 11, 2019, 08:00:55 PM »
Jane Tanner: I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.

LP: 4078    “No”.

Jane Tanner: Reply    “But I just thought it was”.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

If Jane Tanner "just thought it was" why no mention of it in the files?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #162 on: March 11, 2019, 09:08:07 PM »
If Jane Tanner "just thought it was" why no mention of it in the files?

Reading between the lines I have wondered if it could have been a British initiative.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #163 on: March 11, 2019, 09:45:40 PM »
Reading between the lines I have wondered if it could have been a British initiative.
No mention of that in Amaral’s book. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Madeleine McCann alive?
« Reply #164 on: March 11, 2019, 10:20:57 PM »
No mention of that in Amaral’s book.

No mention of it in the files, which there should have been if it was a PJ initiative,
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0