Should White House farmhouse have been demolished?

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm sure most would consider WHF a 'house of horror'.  Others properties with similar histories have been demolished eg former homes of the Wests, Huntley, Bridger, and Dunblane gym to name but a few.  In this case a relative, AE, appeared only too happy to move in lock, stock and barrel pre trial and remains to this day.  And even had her 8 year old daughter helping to re-make the twins' beds 5 days after the tragedy.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3168.0;attach=3118

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/04/april-jones-mark-bridger-house-demolition


17

[Myster]

I'm sure most would consider WHF a 'house of horror'.  Others properties with similar histories have been demolished eg former homes of the Wests, Huntley, Bridger, and Dunblane gym to name but a few.  In this case a relative, AE, appeared only too happy to move in lock, stock and barrel pre trial and remains to this day.  And even had her 8 year old daughter helping to re-make the twins' beds 5 days after the tragedy.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3168.0;attach=3118

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/04/april-jones-mark-bridger-house-demolition

Some are not as squeamish as you, Holly. For obvious reasons Jeremy Bamber had no intention of living there after the massacre he'd perpetrated, so why deny the rest of the family the opportunity. There are many houses where several people have been murdered by a family member which haven't been demolished. Even loner Dennis Nilsen's old butcher's shop hasn't, so why destroy a perfectly serviceable and attractive Grade II listed farmhouse. Spirits don't necessarily disappear even if the house does.

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-353190-white-house-farmhouse-tolleshunt-d-arcy-#.VVbwPMnf1ys

[Holly Goodhead]

Some are not as squeamish as you, Holly. For obvious reasons Jeremy Bamber had no intention of living there after the massacre he'd perpetrated, so why deny the rest of the family the opportunity. There are many houses where several people have been murdered by a family member which haven't been demolished. Even loner Dennis Nilsen's old butcher's shop hasn't, so why destroy a perfectly serviceable and attractive Grade II listed farmhouse. Spirits don't necessarily disappear even if the house does.

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-353190-white-house-farmhouse-tolleshunt-d-arcy-#.VVbwPMnf1ys

I wouldn't describe myself as "squeamish".  I would not want to live in a property where 5 members of my family, albeit extended family, died in gruesome circumstances regardless of any practical implications and whether or not the property was listed.  I would find it too upsetting and a constant reminder.  I think most will share my sentiments.

The property didn't receive its listed status until 1987.  And even if had been listed at the time this could have been overcome enabling demolition.  I am sure the trustees of WHF would have been amenable to the wishes of the surviving relatives. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Taken as a whole I do not find WHF particularly attractive.  I've visited numerous farms and most have long sweeping drives to the farmhouse and sit on undulating pasture land.  WHF sits off Pages Lane which is a dirt track and is surrounded by flat ploughed fields.  The rear of the property is quite ugly with exposed red bricks looking out on a hodgepodge of out buildings.  I agree with the author who inscribed on the wardrobe door in Sheila's room "I hate this place".

As far as I can see the surviving relatives were not dependent on WHF for their livelihood or future prosperity.  The fact a relative chose to set up home there is imo unfathomable.  Especially set against the family's claim that JB's behaviour post murders was inappropriate and in some way indicative that he was responsible.

The former home of Nilsen apparently sold for 100k less than market value during 2013.  A developer purchased it hoping to turn a 100k profit.  However according to Rightmove the agent removed the property and its up for auction at 240k with a note:

"Buyers are asked to research the history of this property".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568523/Former-house-horrors-killing-ground-serial-killer-Dennis-Nilsen-sale-100-000-profit-despite-grim-history.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-27858261.html

In some US states a law exists relating to 'Stigmatised Properties'.  I think agents in the UK have a legal duty to make potential buyers aware of anything that might affect the resale value eg the site of murders/suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmatized_property

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/duty-to-disclose-selling-stigmatized-property.html

In the case of the Bain family home in New Zealand the house was burned to the ground two weeks after the murders:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10857352

In the case of the DeFeo family home in US the house was left standing and has a long ghoulish history and continues to be the subject of box office hit movies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213078/Amityville-horror-house-market-owners-drop-asking-price-1-35m-955k.html

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1935897/

AE made meticulous notes about the smallest of detail.  She makes no reference of taking delivery of new beds/mattresses so I assume the beds she remade in the twins' room, with the help of her 8 year old daughter, 5 days post tragedy were in fact the beds the twins were shot and killed in?  Who exactly did she think would want to sleep in them?  I understand her children suffered nightmares living there so perhaps they slept in the twins' beds?   And folk talk of JB being cold, callous and exhibiting the traits of a psychopath  &%+((£

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3168.0;attach=3118

[Myster]

  I agree with the author who inscribed on the wardrobe door in Sheila's room "I hate this place".

As far as I can see the surviving relatives were not dependent on WHF for their livelihood or future prosperity. The fact a relative chose to set up home there is imo unfathomable.  Especially set against the family's claim that JB's behaviour post murders was inappropriate and in some way indicative that he was responsible.

AE made meticulous notes about the smallest of detail.  She makes no reference of taking delivery of new beds/mattresses so I assume the beds she remade in the twins' room, with the help of her 8 year old daughter, 5 days post tragedy were in fact the beds the twins were shot and killed in?  Who exactly did she think would want to sleep in them?  I understand her children suffered nightmares living there so perhaps they slept in the twins' beds?   And folk talk of JB being cold, callous and exhibiting the traits of a psychopath  &%+((£

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3168.0;attach=3118

You're like that female ferret gnawing away at Whiteley's finger.      Shona!!!... give me a hand to remove prickly Holly! 

If you're brought up in a farming family, wanting to continue the tradition is hard to shake off, hence the Eatons' desire to take on WHF.  The surviving relatives had no wish to see it demolished. A similar takeover happened to the farm opposite me in the 1970's, when a farmer living half a mile away purchased it for his two sons, one of whom still lives there today.

Who do you think the author of "I HATE THIS PLACE" was?

Colin had an idea that it was Sheila's work... not because she thought the WHF was ugly, but like Jeremy she hankered after the high life in London in preference to the isolation a farm miles from anywhere would provide. When he visited, the twins' beds had been moved out and replaced by Sheila's old one (ISOTRE, 119).

I suppose this apocryphal story about AE's children suffering nightmares emanates from blue?

[Holly Goodhead]

You're like that female ferret gnawing away at Whiteley's finger.      Shona!!!... give me a hand to remove prickly Holly! 

If you're brought up in a farming family, wanting to continue the tradition is hard to shake off, hence the Eatons' desire to take on WHF.  The surviving relatives had no wish to see it demolished. A similar takeover happened to the farm opposite me in the 1970's, when a farmer living half a mile away purchased it for his two sons, one of whom still lives there today.

Who do you think the author of "I HATE THIS PLACE" was?

Colin had an idea that it was Sheila's work... not because she thought the WHF was ugly, but like Jeremy she hankered after the high life in London in preference to the isolation a farm miles from anywhere would provide. When he visited, the twins' beds had been moved out and replaced by Sheila's old one (ISOTRE, 119).

I suppose this apocryphal story about AE's children suffering nightmares emanates from blue?

http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf

"Ann Eaton moved into the farm not long after the murders and still lives there with her family. Bamber told me he thought she was a “sick puppy” for doing that. Eaton would not talk to me for this article — indeed, after I wrote her a polite letter I received a “warning” call from an Essex police detective superintendent asking me to leave her alone, which I did — but David Boutflour was generous and spoke to me at length. It is clear he doesn’t understand his sister’s actions either. How could she? Boutflour told me he knew Ann’s children had suffered nightmares. As well you might. Bamber said she was “as cold as ice”."

[John]

I don't think it should have been demolished since it can only be seen by someone who has business there.  Apart from a couple of farm cottages and a bungalow there are no near neighbours so the question of causing trauma or upset to anyone doesn't really arise.

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't think it should have been demolished since it can only be seen by someone who has business there.  Apart from a couple of farm cottages and a bungalow there are no near neighbours so the question of causing trauma or upset to anyone doesn't really arise.

The fact it doesn't appear to have ever caused AE any trauma or upset is IMO quite remarkable.  According to DB (see post above) he doesn't understand his sister's actions ie setting up home at WHF shortly after the tragedy.  It appears her children suffered nightmares as a result of living at WHF.

[John]

The fact it doesn't appear to have ever caused AE any trauma or upset is IMO quite remarkable.  According to DB (see post above) he doesn't understand his sister's actions ie setting up home at WHF shortly after the tragedy.  It appears her children suffered nightmares as a result of living at WHF.

Ann might have felt closer to her aunt and uncle by living in their former home.  Had it been strangers who had been murdered in the property it would have been a different matter imo.

[Holly Goodhead]

Ann might have felt closer to her aunt and uncle by living in their former home.  Had it been strangers who had been murdered in the property it would have been a different matter imo.

Had JB moved into WHF to be "closer" to his family I can just imagine the criticism that would have been levelled against him!

There's no evidence AE was particularly close to any member of the Bamber family incl her Aunt June.

"I will say that during the early and teenage years of my life I did not visit my Aunt June and Uncle Nevill and their adopted children very often.  My parents, my brother and I visited White House Farm at Christmas time to exchange presents and occasionally for Sunday lunch".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2143

"I left school aged 16 years and worked for a course at the Mid Essex Technical Collage and School of Art in Chelmsford.  I moved in with some friends only returning home to Wix at weekends.  I didn't see Sheila or Jeremy very often during this period of my life and only saw my Aunt June Bamber and Uncle Nevill Bamber at White House Farm on infrequent occasions".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2145

[John]

Demolishing the farmhouse was never on the cards.

Had a member of the family not taken over the lease of the farm it would have been rented to someone else. Ann and Peter undoubtedly saw it as honouring their murdered kins memory and in any event it made perfect sense to take over the lease when it was left to Peter to sort out the mess left behind by Jeremy Bamber.

Seems as far as Jeremy Bamber was concerned, jollys to Amsterdam and the south of France with Brett Collins were more important than bringing in the harvest...nuff said!

[Holly Goodhead]

Demolishing the farmhouse was never on the cards.

Had a member of the family not taken over the lease of the farm it would have been rented to someone else. Ann and Peter undoubtedly saw it as honouring their murdered kins memory and in any event it made perfect sense to take over the lease when it was left to Peter to sort out the mess left behind by Jeremy Bamber.

According to BW PE was the one that created a mess and financial wrongdoing over the takeover and running of WHF:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1045.msg29871#msg29871

Seems as far as Jeremy Bamber was concerned, jollys to Amsterdam and the south of France with Brett Collins were more important than bringing in the harvest...nuff said!

JB did cancel a planned hol with JM as he was unable to take time off work:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1130

[John]

According to BW PE was the one that created a mess and financial wrongdoing over the takeover and running of WHF:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1045.msg29871#msg29871

JB did cancel a planned hol with JM as he was unable to take time off work:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1130

Yes, Barbara had a lot of criticism for Peter and accused him of effectively feathering his own nest.

This holiday with Julie which was cancelled, when was this Holly?

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes, Barbara had a lot of criticism for Peter and accused him of effectively feathering his own nest.

This holiday with Julie which was cancelled, when was this Holly?

The planned holiday with JM was apparently JB's 21st birthday present to JM.  Her 21st was on 24th August 1985 but I'm not sure if they intended to be away for her actual birthday or not:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1130

I think there's some other info about this somewhere so I'll have a look.

[John]

The planned holiday with JM was apparently JB's 21st birthday present to JM.  Her 21st was on 24th August 1985 but I'm not sure if they intended to be away for her actual birthday or not:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1130

I think there's some other info about this somewhere so I'll have a look.

Thanks for that reminder Holly, no doubt going on holiday with Julie was the last thing on his mind given the circumstances.

[IndigoJ]

I'm sure most would consider WHF a 'house of horror'.  Others properties with similar histories have been demolished eg former homes of the Wests, Huntley, Bridger, and Dunblane gym to name but a few.  In this case a relative, AE, appeared only too happy to move in lock, stock and barrel pre trial and remains to this day.  And even had her 8 year old daughter helping to re-make the twins' beds 5 days after the tragedy.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3168.0;attach=3118

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/04/april-jones-mark-bridger-house-demolition


11

I agree, I found that very odd and the fact in her statement she asked JB why he didn't want to live there! she also was there a lot after the tragedy like she had her sights on it from the get go , and i also found it off that she asked about having June's engagement ring so soon after the murders.