Author Topic: Brexit has well and truly begun!  (Read 284459 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #705 on: January 27, 2019, 06:12:45 PM »
Channel 4 News
‏Verified account @Channel4News

"A second referendum is not the preferred option for the Labour Party."

Len McCluskey says that with the Remain campaign "having lost", "coming out of the European Union is not the end of the world, providing you conclude an agreement that protects jobs".

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1089573237816733697


I give up on the lot of them...
Did he give us any clues on what sort of an agreement would protect jobs?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #706 on: January 27, 2019, 06:22:13 PM »
Did he give us any clues on what sort of an agreement would protect jobs?

No idea, TBH.

There's this, if it helps.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-len-mccluskey-blasts-theresa-13901089
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 06:24:59 PM by Carana »

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #707 on: January 27, 2019, 06:33:08 PM »
No idea, TBH.

There's this, if it helps.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-len-mccluskey-blasts-theresa-13901089
It’s all very well these smartarses criticising May and claiming they could do a better job, but has even one of them shed any light whatsoever on what they would have gone for in a negotiation with the EU or how they would have come out of such negotiations with anything approaching a better deal?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #708 on: January 27, 2019, 06:48:37 PM »
It’s all very well these smartarses criticising May and claiming they could do a better job, but has even one of them shed any light whatsoever on what they would have gone for in a negotiation with the EU or how they would have come out of such negotiations with anything approaching a better deal?

I found Ivan Rogers latest talk really interesting (and it's scathing about everyone, if that's any consolation for all camps).

No one seems to be interested.:(

Anyway, one of his points was (IIRC) that no one actually did have a viable alternative plan, but that most of the opposition (from either Labour or the right-wing of the Conservative party) was content to simply pick fault with the plan of the day.


Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #709 on: January 27, 2019, 08:16:45 PM »

Offline Venturi Swirl

"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #711 on: January 28, 2019, 06:04:00 AM »

Brexiters never had a real exit plan. No wonder they avoided the issue
Nick Cohen
Sat 26 Jan 2019 18.30 GMT

...After the prize was awarded to a political fantasy, Cummings gave fair warning of what was coming next. Writing in 2015, he admitted that the campaign would offer no exit plan: hard Brexit, soft Brexit or any Brexit in between. “There is much to be gained from swerving the whole issue,” he explained. Opponents of the EU “have been divided for years”. In any case, “the sheer complexity of leaving would involve endless questions of detail that cannot be answered”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/26/brexiters-never-had-a-real-exit-plan-no-wonder-they-avoided-the-issue?CMP=share_btn_tw

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #712 on: January 28, 2019, 06:21:02 AM »
Vicky Ford took the time to go through Lilley's "30 Myths".

https://twitter.com/vickyford/status/1088401489259884545

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #713 on: January 28, 2019, 07:40:11 AM »
Guy Verhofstadt
‏Verified account @guyverhofstadt

The time to agree an orderly withdrawal & deliver certainty is fast running out. Next week, the @Europarl_EN will start the process of ratifying the withdrawal agreement.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1089469964908666880





Offline Eleanor

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #714 on: January 28, 2019, 08:12:14 AM »

As I said, Britain gave away it's rights, and now they can't have some of them back.

I didn't vote in the original Referendum because I was uneasy about what I thought we weren't being told, but we were all so much more naive in those days.  But I doubt it was ever intended to be just a Common Market.

Now, after the last two years of absolute chaos, I have no idea of what Britain should do.

Sorry, not much help I know.

Offline Brietta

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #715 on: January 28, 2019, 10:09:21 AM »
Vicky Ford took the time to go through Lilley's "30 Myths".

https://twitter.com/vickyford/status/1088401489259884545

I think the huge issue ... which was given little consideration initially ... is the Irish border and the opportunity it may give to idiots who in the past had a propensity for blowing people up and who became quite good at it.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #716 on: January 28, 2019, 11:57:28 AM »
I think the huge issue ... which was given little consideration initially ... is the Irish border and the opportunity it may give to idiots who in the past had a propensity for blowing people up and who became quite good at it.

Probably because no-one expected the result they got. I was reading about the 1975 referendum where the question was whether to stay in or leave. Leaving then was supported by the left, on the whole. Tony Benn led the Leave campaign and it was supported by the SNP and the DUP. How times change.

There were idiots on both sides in the Troubles who blew people up. Some may have used the border to escape justice, others didn't. I don't understand how a strict border would lead to a rise in sectarian violence. In any case such a border is illegal under international law.
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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #717 on: January 28, 2019, 01:16:48 PM »
Probably because no-one expected the result they got. I was reading about the 1975 referendum where the question was whether to stay in or leave. Leaving then was supported by the left, on the whole. Tony Benn led the Leave campaign and it was supported by the SNP and the DUP. How times change.

There were idiots on both sides in the Troubles who blew people up. Some may have used the border to escape justice, others didn't. I don't understand how a strict border would lead to a rise in sectarian violence. In any case such a border is illegal under international law.

What type of border is illegal under international law?

Offline Sunny

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #718 on: January 28, 2019, 01:31:54 PM »
Probably because no-one expected the result they got. I was reading about the 1975 referendum where the question was whether to stay in or leave. Leaving then was supported by the left, on the whole. Tony Benn led the Leave campaign and it was supported by the SNP and the DUP. How times change.

There were idiots on both sides in the Troubles who blew people up. Some may have used the border to escape justice, others didn't. I don't understand how a strict border would lead to a rise in sectarian violence. In any case such a border is illegal under international law.

I heard on the radio that Jeremy Corbyn voted to leave in 1975 and has consistently voted against EU membership ever since.  I imagine he is in a bit of a bind at present. Go with his heart or try to gain power.  He so far is trying to gain power, which is all our political classes seem to care about IMO.
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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #719 on: January 28, 2019, 01:49:09 PM »
As I said, Britain gave away it's rights, and now they can't have some of them back.

I didn't vote in the original Referendum because I was uneasy about what I thought we weren't being told, but we were all so much more naive in those days.  But I doubt it was ever intended to be just a Common Market.

Now, after the last two years of absolute chaos, I have no idea of what Britain should do.

Sorry, not much help I know.

I read something early this morning, but have since lost the link, about how the Irish referendum on abortion was conducted. IIRC, people were apparently given all the information they needed to make an informed decision, before it took place.

Whether that's true or not, I don't see how any referendum is fair if people don't have all the information in advance.

For that reason, I disagree with the argument of "we already had a referendum, and a majority chose to leave".

No one, not even the government, knew what it would entail. And although a Select Committee inquiry found that dodgy tactics were used by the Leave campaign (Cambridge Analytica...), few seem to be questioning whether targeted groups of people were influenced by messages mostly based on lies.

The marketing techniques used on FB, etc., are as insidious as tabloid headlines that penetrate the subconscious, whether you read the article or not. The 21st century equivalent of subliminal advertising.