Author Topic: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?  (Read 101680 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #135 on: January 21, 2017, 08:38:25 AM »
I'm sure theres articles or stories around telling how police have solved a case by working on a timeline. I read something that said it's a key part of any investigation, especially when verified. Make an effort to justify your opinion Alfie.

The statements tell me that this timeline can't be verified because of the lack of witnesses, and I have quoted from them. However expert they are the Met can't verify the timeline due to this lack of witnesses.

None of the witnesses there reported any women leaving the table, for example, although one witness mentioned Kate checking when she didn't. The timeline is an unverified story.
There are numerous witnesses, however just because you take the position of disbelieving them all doesn't mean that the Met shares your view.  Most timelines rely on information from memory and when there is input from a number of sources there are bound to be discrepancies.  The Met use their experience and tools at their disposal to come up with as accurate a timeline as possible.  OK, you don't accept that, your choice.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #136 on: January 21, 2017, 09:01:53 AM »
Of course there is a plausible logical theory for abduction and it's laughable that some posters here are going to such lengths to try and pretend there isn't
Because there isn't absolute proof of abduction doesn't mean it didn't happen
It's odds on the most probable explanation of what happened to maddie
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 09:04:33 AM by davel »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #137 on: January 21, 2017, 09:12:25 AM »
Going back to forensics, I've used this example before, and I think it bears repeating:

From the Portuguese scientific laboratory:

Quote
To: Police Scientific Laboratory
Lisbon

5th June 2007

Subject: Sending of Pyjamas

The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.

The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.

The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.

The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.

With compliments

Signed

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Goncalo Amaral

And the bewildered response of the laboratory:

Quote
1723 to 1725  Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
 Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)

Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS

Your communication: 2007/06/05

Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07

Subject: Information

With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.

PP The Director of the SPL

Armando Santos
(Haed of Sector)
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1724
 also Outros Apensos I, Vol I Page 33
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1724

Amaral repeats:
 
Quote
Letter

To: Scientific Police Laboratory

Date: 5th June 2007

Subject: Sending of Pyjamas

The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007 from P da L.

By means of this note I am sending a set of child's pyjamas to the Scientific Police Laboratory.

The pyjamas are of Marks $ Spencers make and size 2/3 years, 97 cm.

The pyjamas are composed of two pieces, a camisole without buttons and half length sleeves, pink in colour with designs and letters and white trousers with floral motifs (small), on the right leg there is a design (smaller size) that is the same as the design on the camisole.

The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs and presumably texture, as those the girl was wearing at the moment of her disappearance.

The article sent serves for eventual comparison with 'fibres' collected during the competent examinations carried out by staff from the SPL, within this inquiry.

Compliments.

G. Amaral

(Note: there is handwriting over the text which I can't fully make out).
 
07 Processos Vol II Page 1725
 also Outros Apensos I, Vol I Page 34
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1725
 
Handwritten)

Examinations Carried Out

BG - 200708360

8359
8357
7143

CR/L - 200708272

8271
8270
8269
8268
7357
7356
7116

What's to say?

The laboratory gave up.

In the Cipriano case, a fridge said to have been used to store Joana's body was identified but never forensically examined.

Had it, actually, been used to store a body, it would have been teeming with that person's DNA.

In court, photographs of tools, said to have been used to dismember Joana's body were produced. 

The tools themselves, had they actually been used for that purpose, again, would have been teeming with Joana's DNA.

Returning to the Madeleine investigation, Kate was roundly excoriated on-line for washing cuddle-cat.  Cuddle-cat (conceivably) might have yielded forensic clues and certainly should have been taken in the initial Portuguese forensic sweep.  But it never was.  3 months later was too late.

I think it fair to say that the Portuguese approach to forensic work in the aftermath of a crime is not as thorough as the British.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #138 on: January 21, 2017, 10:52:23 AM »
Going back to forensics, I've used this example before, and I think it bears repeating:

From the Portuguese scientific laboratory:

And the bewildered response of the laboratory:

Amaral repeats:
 
What's to say?

The laboratory gave up.

In the Cipriano case, a fridge said to have been used to store Joana's body was identified but never forensically examined.

Had it, actually, been used to store a body, it would have been teeming with that person's DNA.

In court, photographs of tools, said to have been used to dismember Joana's body were produced. 

The tools themselves, had they actually been used for that purpose, again, would have been teeming with Joana's DNA.

Returning to the Madeleine investigation, Kate was roundly excoriated on-line for washing cuddle-cat.  Cuddle-cat (conceivably) might have yielded forensic clues and certainly should have been taken in the initial Portuguese forensic sweep.  But it never was.  3 months later was too late.

I think it fair to say that the Portuguese approach to forensic work in the aftermath of a crime is not as thorough as the British.

Cuddlecat was deemed to have no forensic significance.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Lace

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #139 on: January 21, 2017, 10:58:14 AM »
Going back to forensics, I've used this example before, and I think it bears repeating:

From the Portuguese scientific laboratory:

And the bewildered response of the laboratory:

Amaral repeats:
 
What's to say?

The laboratory gave up.

In the Cipriano case, a fridge said to have been used to store Joana's body was identified but never forensically examined.

Had it, actually, been used to store a body, it would have been teeming with that person's DNA.

In court, photographs of tools, said to have been used to dismember Joana's body were produced. 

The tools themselves, had they actually been used for that purpose, again, would have been teeming with Joana's DNA.

Returning to the Madeleine investigation, Kate was roundly excoriated on-line for washing cuddle-cat.  Cuddle-cat (conceivably) might have yielded forensic clues and certainly should have been taken in the initial Portuguese forensic sweep.  But it never was.  3 months later was too late.

I think it fair to say that the Portuguese approach to forensic work in the aftermath of a crime is not as thorough as the British.

Also the Portuguese forensic department said they should have had Madeleine's bedding [I think they should have had the twins bedding too]   they said they might have found evidence on the bedding.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #140 on: January 21, 2017, 11:17:26 AM »
Also the Portuguese forensic department said they should have had Madeleine's bedding [I think they should have had the twins bedding too]   they said they might have found evidence on the bedding.
Isn't this just due that they had not considered an abduction. 
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Lace

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #141 on: January 21, 2017, 11:23:43 AM »
Isn't this just due that they had not considered an abduction.

If they hadn't considered an abduction why test the bed for sedative?   Why check the window for prints?   Why say
there was no evidence anyone had trodden on the bed?

They messed up the forensics.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #142 on: January 21, 2017, 11:38:46 AM »
If they hadn't considered an abduction why test the bed for sedative?   Why check the window for prints?   Why say
there was no evidence anyone had trodden on the bed?

They messed up the forensics.
We had a thread about the use of sedatives and no one brought up that they tested the bed for sedatives.
The window didn't they only find Kate's prints.
No footprints on the bed - what did that suggest?

None of this proves they even considered an abduction occurred.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 12:01:15 PM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #143 on: January 21, 2017, 11:59:52 AM »
If they hadn't considered an abduction why test the bed for sedative?   Why check the window for prints?   Why say
there was no evidence anyone had trodden on the bed?

They messed up the forensics.

I disagree, the indications were that the window held no forensic significance.  Clearly nobody had climbed through it and entered the bedroom.  That raised the question as to why the shutter was up and the window open.  Maybe Kate McCann in sheer panic opened them to look outside when she found Maddie gone and has a temporary amnesia or transient memory loss. Memory loss resulting from emotional shock or trauma is called psychogenic or dissociative amnesia.  Remember also that consumption of alcohol increases this phenomena. 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 12:12:53 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #144 on: January 21, 2017, 12:14:50 PM »
I disagree, the indications were that the window held no forensic significance.  Clearly nobody had climbed through it and entered the bedroom.  That raised the question as to why the shutter was up and the window open.  Maybe Kate McCann in sheer panic opened them to look outside when she found Maddie gone and has a temporary amnesia or transient memory loss. Memory loss resulting from emotional shock or trauma is called psychogenic or dissociative amnesia.  Remember also that consumption of alcohol increases this phenomena.

But Kate knew it was an abduction because the window and shutters were open.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #145 on: January 21, 2017, 12:15:04 PM »
Cuddlecat was deemed to have no forensic significance.

grime was clear he considered that the dog alerted to cuddle cat....yet it wasnt even tested...bizarre...what a load of BS the alerts were

Offline jassi

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #146 on: January 21, 2017, 12:22:21 PM »
Was this before or after he was washed?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #147 on: January 21, 2017, 01:44:19 PM »
But Kate knew it was an abduction because the window and shutters were open.
exactly

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #148 on: January 21, 2017, 02:28:15 PM »
Of course there is a plausible logical theory for abduction and it's laughable that some posters here are going to such lengths to try and pretend there isn't
Because there isn't absolute proof of abduction doesn't mean it didn't happen
It's odds on the most probable explanation of what happened to maddie

OK show us the maths and full SP then.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline sadie

Re: Is there a plausible, logical theory of abduction?
« Reply #149 on: January 21, 2017, 04:04:07 PM »
grime was clear he considered that the dog alerted to cuddle cat....yet it wasnt even tested...bizarre...what a load of BS the alerts were
and anyone who examies the video will soon realise that Grime was totally wrong on that. 

Eddie did NOT alert to cCat but to the pile of papers/ folders on top of the cupboard
Additionally he had already played with cCat without alerting. 
I can sort of understand Grime not realizing that Eddie was alerting to the ?folders on top of the cupboard
But forgetting that prior to that, Eddie had played with cCat, even tossing him in the air, and not alerting then, was a big BOO BOO

IMHO.