Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail

[John]

@dewanifacts

Your item #40 under the heading 'Claims proven beyond reasonable doubt to be TRUE'.

Shrien Dewani did not mention the helicopter trip or the missing R10,000 in his police statements following the murder. This omission may have allowed Tongo to evade suspicion in the early stages of the police investigation and was interpreted by some as a deliberate attempt to throw police off the scent. SAPS themselves declared that such information would have changed the course of the investigation which would have focused on the driver, Tongo, sooner. It is therefore reasonable to consider whether omitting the information was a conscious decision as opposed to merely an oversight in the aftermath of a particularly traumatic event. Since any attempts by Shrien Dewani’s representatives to make further statements, or to be interviewed by SAPS, were refused, and he was not compelled to answer questions in court, Dewani has never been questioned formally on the topic or granted the opportunity to offer an explanation. In retrospect, since the totality of evidence renders the ‘hitman’ version a non-starter, it is likely that any conscious decision by Shrien Dewani to omit the information was most likely related to personal embarrassment and shame at being duped into carrying an attractive amount of money for a bogus helicopter trip. A ruse which ultimately cost Anni her life.

In the last paragraph you have entered into a speculation which is inappropriate.

[Passer-by]

I haven't read the entire thread yet but did go to your post.  I will admit I was shocked when I realised that 10,000 Rand was only worth around 500 quid; is life really so cheap in SA?

Yup.  And £500 is a f*** of a lot of money to millions of people living in between the airport and the V&A.

Though personally I think there will have been a bigger arrangement with someone higher up the food chain prior to arrival as well.  I don't think it was an accident he bumped into Tongo at the airport.

It would be interesting to know whether he had any meetings when he flew in via Joburg (which used enjoy the title 'Murder Capital of The World'.

[John]

Yup.  And £500 is a f*** of a lot of money to millions of people living in between the airport and the V&A.

Though personally I think there will have been a bigger arrangement with someone higher up the food chain prior to arrival as well.  I don't think it was an accident he bumped into Tongo at the airport.

It would be interesting to know whether he had any meetings when he flew in via Joburg (which used enjoy the title 'Murder Capital of The World'.

From the Trial Report, this stands out...

24.2.8
Mr. Mbolombo testified that while he and Mr. Tongo were driving towards Mr. Mbolombo’s work, Mr. Tongo received a phone call and then said, “here is the gentleman that we are talking about, the man who wants his wife to be killed”. Mr. Tongo then spoke on the phone and all Mr. Mbolombo heard Mr. Tongo saying is, “I’m coming, I’m coming”. Mr. Tongo thereupon put the phone down and said that the gentleman does not trust him. Mr. Tongo then informed him that he had to go and take the accused to change his dollars into rands so that he can pay the killers. He added that the accused did not want to go to a “legitimate” place where the dollars are being changed for rands because he, the accused, did not want to be charged for tax. Mr. Tongo also informed Mr. Mbolombo that the couple was from overseas and that it is not the first time that the accused had done “this”, that he has been in South Africa before, done “this” before, and he wants to do it again, but it should appear to be a fake hijacking. Upon arrival at the Protea Hotel, Mr. Tongo said to Mr. Mbolombo that he had to rush to Khayelitsha to meet with Mr. Qwabe.

Was any of this followed up on?

[Passer-by]

I might also add that when life is tough it largely comprises of 'did we all eat today':  we had real problems because of people's concept of time when it came to planning. Most could about stretch to last week and next week.  I had one lady who would express something happened 'a long LONG time ago!  Even before my mother's mother's mother's mother!' - further examination would reveal it would be something like 1982.

I knew someone else who had a loyal family retainer, their parents had worked for his parents, they were great employers, gave the retainer everything he could need for:  a pretty cottage, free food produced on the farm, paid for their children's education, employed other members of the family etc. One day the long floral curtains in the living room vanished overnight:  a most curious crime!?  Lo and behold, a couple of weeks later, the retainer's wife, daughter and sister-in-law were all seen wearing dresses in fabric identical to the curtains.  They went to have a chat and found the cottage had curtains in the fabric as well.  The loyal retainer broke down and confessed:  his wife had coveted those curtains for years and went on and on at him until he nicked them for her.  If they find they can abuse your trust and get away with it, it happens again - and again until it's seriously taking the piss.  The retainer had to go.  Weren't really thinking of the consequences, or the future, were they?

And that is a major problem down there:  very little thought to the future or the consequences. And some poor sucker at the bottom of the pile takes the punishment for the savvier ones who used them.

I think you also need to get your head around the idea of what the world looks like to someone who has had no education and grew up with no electricity, no television etc and no books.  The world is a surprisingly simple place.

[Passer-by]

From the Trial Report, this stands out...

24.2.8
Mr. Mbolombo testified that while he and Mr. Tongo were driving towards Mr. Mbolombo’s work, Mr. Tongo received a phone call and then said, “here is the gentleman that we are talking about, the man who wants his wife to be killed”. Mr. Tongo then spoke on the phone and all Mr. Mbolombo heard Mr. Tongo saying is, “I’m coming, I’m coming”. Mr. Tongo thereupon put the phone down and said that the gentleman does not trust him. Mr. Tongo then informed him that he had to go and take the accused to change his dollars into rands so that he can pay the killers. He added that the accused did not want to go to a “legitimate” place where the dollars are being changed for rands because he, the accused, did not want to be charged for tax. Mr. Tongo also informed Mr. Mbolombo that the couple was from overseas and that it is not the first time that the accused had done “this”, that he has been in South Africa before, done “this” before, and he wants to do it again, but it should appear to be a fake hijacking. Upon arrival at the Protea Hotel, Mr. Tongo said to Mr. Mbolombo that he had to rush to Khayelitsha to meet with Mr. Qwabe.

Was any of this followed up on?

I posted something about this higher up - many South Africans leapt upon it at the time because it was another unusual crime.  The widow flew to Cape Town to comfort Dewani.  It was over on the Eastern Cape - another hijack where the car was left, one bulletin wound and no signs of a robbery.  Dewani knew the guy and apparently boasted about arranging it though I don't know who to.

It is worth noting that the largest Indian Community in the world outside of India is in South Africa.  It may call itself The Rainbow Nation, but each tribe keeps to itself.  I haven't been down recently, but I would have regarded it as highly unusual to see a mix-raced couple for example even in 2010.  Each ethnic group kept largely to itself, lived in communities, conducted business etc. The Indian community was highly sophisticated and well educated.  If it had been an Indian taxi driver in Cape Town I would have gone with Dewanifacts idea of him kidding Dewani into letting him be the tourguide no problem at all, likewise if it had been someone Cape Coloured.

[dewanifacts]

A question which the trial Judge raised and which you might have considered.  Why would Tongo and Mbolombo put their necks in a noose for a mere £250 (Tongo's fee)?   Did Mbolombo get anything in the end?

The R10000 was a sweetener not the main payoff. Put that aside and the incentive for Tongo, Mbolombo and the other conspirators was a nice haul of cash and valuables. The same incentive as many other robberies in a country  where over 100,000 aggravated robberies take place each year, and the police barely bat an eyelid. Their necks were not in a noose. If it had been a simple robbery that went to plan then the chances of being caught were next to nothing.

Nicely dressed tourists made easy pickings especially when their taxi driver was in on the operation. Turned out they were right. The Dewanis were robbed of R80,000 worth of cash and valuables and the criminals only left the R250,000 engagement ring because of the panic that ensued when robbery turned into murder.

Makes the alleged R15,000 hitman fee seem rather ridiculous, does it not?

As for what the judge said. Its not quite as you suggest. She indicated that she did not believe that they would agree to a murder plot for the sum of R15000.  This is indicated in paragraph 24.4 of the judgement which I have pasted below. This paragraph also makes it clear that Passer-by's comments are totally out of touch with the reality of the players in this case. These were not illiterate slum dwellers. Tongo was more than capable of gaining the trust of his clients by impressing them with his knowledge and charm. I'd suggest that the judge was in a better position to make this call than Passer-by who presumably was not in the court room and is simply sprouting generalisations and trying to imply that her local knowledge trumps real evidence. 

24.4.4 These men are not typical of the criminal elements which one encounters. Each one of them impressed me as intelligent and bright, but, calculated. They may have been amateurs in arranging a hit on a person’s life, but I do not believe that any one of them would be so stupid as to take part in this crime for just a few thousand rand. On Mr. Tongo’s own saying he was earning between R30 000,00 and R40 000,00 per month. Mr. Mbolombo had a job, and Mr. Qwabe was formally employed until April 2010, and thereafter assisted his mother in her business.

[Passer-by]

The R10000 was a sweetener not the main payoff. Put that aside and the incentive for Tongo, Mbolombo and the other conspirators was a nice haul of cash and valuables. The same incentive as many other robberies in a country  where over 100,000 aggravated robberies take place each year, and the police barely bat an eyelid.

Nicely dressed tourists made easy pickings especially when their taxi driver was in on the operation. Turned out they were right. The Dewanis were robbed of R80,000 worth of cash and valuables and the criminals only left the R250,000 engagement ring because of the panic that ensued when robbery turned into murder.

Makes the alleged R15,000 hitman fee seem rather ridiculous, does it not?

As for what the judge said. Its not quite as you suggest. She indicated that she did not believe that they would agree to a murder plot for the sum of R15000.  This is indicated in paragraph 24.4 of the judgement which I have pasted below. This paragraph also makes it clear that Passer-by's comments are totally out of touch with the reality of the players in this case. These were not illiterate slum dwellers. Tongo was more than capable of gaining the trust of his clients by impressing them with his knowledge and charm. I'd suggest that the judge was in a better position to make this call than Passer-by who presumably was not in the court room and is simply sprouting generalisations and trying to imply that her local knowledge trumps real evidence. 

24.4.4 These men are not typical of the criminal elements which one encounters. Each one of them impressed me as intelligent and bright, but, calculated. They may have been amateurs in arranging a hit on a person’s life, but I do not believe that any one of them would be so stupid as to take part in this crime for just a few thousand rand. On Mr. Tongo’s own saying he was earning between R30 000,00 and R40 000,00 per month. Mr. Mbolombo had a job, and Mr. Qwabe was formally employed until April 2010, and thereafter assisted his mother in her business.

"These men were not typical of the criminal elements which one encounters".  So how many criminal elements have you encountered then Dewanifacts?  I'm assuming you weren't in the Court Room either when each one struck you as bright and articulate?  How do you know what is 'amateur' when it comes to arranging a hit in a person's life?  Previously you slammed these people as liars, but now you're saying their word that they had no need to kill her is all we need to believe them.

Pretty much all black people who live in South Africa are what you call 'slum dwellers':  the actual term is 'Township'.  The girl who cleaned your hotel room, the waiter at your table, even the bank clerk who changed your currency, will all have gone home to a Township.  Some Townships are better than others and perhaps the houses are 2-room bungalows, and the Government has done a great job of getting electricity to these and Portaloo toilets on street corners of even the worst.  You are in the tiny minority in the world who lives a life of an incredible privilege.

I understood Tongo came from Khayelitsha was actually an illegal squatter camp in the 1980s and is renowned for being one of the poorest areas of the Western Cape.  I've already posted photos of it.

Please furnish your proof of where he in fact came from and if at all possible video footage of the trial so we can judge for ourselves how he speaks.

[dewanifacts]

I very clearly stated that I was posting a paragraph from the judgement. They are a senior judge's words, not my own. I daresay she has encountered quite a few criminal elements in her long career as a respected member of the Cape Town judiciary. 

[dewanifacts]

He's proved he's a slippery liar, not naive.  This naive man was paying to be racially abused by a gay prostitute whilst coming up with excuses why he wouldn't sleep with his lovely wife, remember:  he was deliberately duplicitous.  He deliberately planned a very expensive wedding - an expense born by Anni's family - to keep his parents happy even though he knew he was gay. 

What does any of this have to do with his naivety? Are you suggesting that gay people cannot be naive? People who use prostitutes cannot be naive?  Duplicitous people cannot be naive?

[Admin]

I have already warned that posts which enter the realms of speculation and which are potentially defamatory will be removed.  No more please.

Admin

[Passer-by]

How did we even get stuck up this Gumtree?  Ah yes that's right, Dewanifacts:  you hypothesised that Tongo might have offered to be Dewani's tourguide and you imagined that he could have dreamed-up something as fantastical as getting the helicopter to land in Table Mountain.  You theorise that this could be why Dewani allegedly paid him for a helicopter trip because in your opinion he us naive.

And yet it's got utterly tiresome how ever time I expand with more background to show why your hypotheses don't have the ring of truth you counter by telling me to stick to facts.

[Passer-by]

What does any of this have to do with his naivety? Are you suggesting that gay people cannot be naive? People who use prostitutes cannot be naive?  Duplicitous people cannot be naive?

Stick to the facts then:  prove to us he is naive.  I think that shows he is scheming. 

Sorry admin:  he has admitted he is gay and what the prostitue did has been openly reported in the press.  Being a gay man and marrying a heterosexual woman is relevant as it shows he is willing to deceive even the people closest to him and it requires a lot of pretence and facade, which are not the hallmarks of someone who is naive.

[dewanifacts]

Not so fast. Lets go back to your comments quoted below. Do you maintain that the judge wasn't in a qualified position to make these observations?

"These men were not typical of the criminal elements which one encounters".  So how many criminal elements have you encountered then Dewanifacts?  I'm assuming you weren't in the Court Room either when each one struck you as bright and articulate?  How do you know what is 'amateur' when it comes to arranging a hit in a person's life?  Previously you slammed these people as liars, but now you're saying their word that they had no need to kill her is all we need to believe them.

Pretty much all black people who live in South Africa are what you call 'slum dwellers':  the actual term is 'Township'.  The girl who cleaned your hotel room, the waiter at your table, even the bank clerk who changed your currency, will all have gone home to a Township.  Some Townships are better than others and perhaps the houses are 2-room bungalows, and the Government has done a great job of getting electricity to these and Portaloo toilets on street corners of even the worst.  You are in the tiny minority in the world who lives a life of an incredible privilege.

I understood Tongo came from Khayelitsha was actually an illegal squatter camp in the 1980s and is renowned for being one of the poorest areas of the Western Cape.  I've already posted photos of it.

Please furnish your proof of where he in fact came from and if at all possible video footage of the trial so we can judge for ourselves how he speaks.

[Passer-by]

Back to the helicopter:  there is no rational explanation for giving the Taxi driver the money for the helicopter.   Though it is possible, it is utterly improbable.

None of us was there, so obviously none of us can state what could have taken place.  I've just given you a lot of background and personal experience to illustrate why in my opinion it's not only untrue but utterly implausible. There is no way of ever knowing what it was for because there is no audio recording and no written contract.  So it is all pure speculation.

I have to say, my sympathies lie with Tongo:  I know his type - he's had an utterly bum deal in life, his education will have been sacrificed for the Greater Good and then when apartheid ended everyone just merrily got with life and that generation was left hung out to dry.  He is, I believe, Xhosa - they aren't local to the Cape (hardly anybody is) but they pitched up about last and it's likely his family were rural poor who came to Cape Town to earn more money then discovered they hadn't any skills to sell.  He already had 5 kids to feed, he had somehow got himself a car, and I dare say was struggling to keep his head above water and desperate for cash:  he was probably told all he had to do was collect a foreigner from the airport and take them to a Township and he wouldn't be involved in the hit.  And then Lo and Behold, he's in jail, his car is wrecked with the girl shot in it he's taken the rap for all the big fish.

Who's to say if you or I had been born in his shoes we'd have done any better?

[dewanifacts]

How did we even get stuck up this Gumtree?  Ah yes that's right, Dewanifacts:  you hypothesised that Tongo might have offered to be Dewani's tourguide and you imagined that he could have dreamed-up something as fantastical as getting the helicopter to land in Table Mountain.  You theorise that this could be why Dewani allegedly paid him for a helicopter trip because in your opinion he us naive.

And yet it's got utterly tiresome how ever time I expand with more background to show why your hypotheses don't have the ring of truth you counter by telling me to stick to facts.

No hypothesising my friend. It is all sourced and backed with evidence.

Tongo testified to the tour guide part. Its all there in the judgement.

An independant journalist (Dan Newling) quoted Dewani as telling him about the impossible helicopter ride.

May I ask you a straight up question? I'd prefer if you don't embellish your answer with any of your local expertise.

Have you ever read the Dewani Judgement?  Its filled with factual information on this case. Factual information that contradicts a very large percentage of the "information" that you post on this forum.

Here is the link - http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAWCHC/2014/188.html