Author Topic: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?  (Read 51757 times)

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amaraltheofficeboy

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Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #195 on: May 30, 2013, 07:09:00 PM »
they prefer behind closed doors

icabodcrane

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Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #196 on: May 30, 2013, 07:18:00 PM »
Why would they want to speak to Verran at all if they were involved in the disappearance of their daughter, can you speculate on that for us Icabod?

I make no accusations that the McCann were involved in Madeleine's disappearance

I am posing the question  of whether or not the McCanns are as involved and informed by Scotland Yard as has been suggested,  and if they are,  then why the need to use private investigators to interview someone Scotland Yard  will be interviewing themselves


Didn't SY, say they were keeping the McCann's up to date?


I think they did say something like that at some point,  and the McCanns have certainly given the impression that they are kept informed of developments in the review

Just a few days ago, for instance,  Kate's mum, Susan Healy,  said that Kate and Gerry had  kept her in the dark  because Scotland Yard had told them  "not to say anything about the investigation"   ...  which  implies that Scotland Yard have been  giving them operational details of such confidentiality that they must not even speak privately  to their closest relatives about it

Which makes it all the more bizarre that the McCanns would need to independently interview witnesses who have already been questioned by Scotland Yard 

Offline Mrs. B

Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #197 on: May 30, 2013, 07:27:20 PM »
Icabod, they said they would like to interview Verran, presumably to follow up on a previous interview they themselves had conducted.  What is bizarre about that?

Nothing stops them from asking him to do so, once NSY has finished with him, of course. It's up to him whether he agrees or not, but why shouldn't they ask if he'd speak to them again to clarify matters relating to the previous interview?

icabodcrane

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Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #198 on: May 30, 2013, 07:27:42 PM »
Icabod, they said they would like to interview Verran, presumably to follow up on a previous interview they themselves had conducted.  What is bizarre about that?

If they are as closely involved in the Scotland Yard investigation as is claimed  ( to the extent where they are aware of information so sensitive and confidential that Kate is forbidden to even speak to her  mum  about it  ! )  then why would they  need to question Verran themselves  ?  ...   they would know all they need to know by simply asking the Yard what had  transpired when they officially questioed him

Offline Mrs. B

Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #199 on: May 30, 2013, 07:31:14 PM »
Because they can, if they want to. And he can answer their questions, if he wants to. Nothing to with anyone else.

amaraltheofficeboy

  • Guest
Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #200 on: May 30, 2013, 07:44:32 PM »
Icabod, they said they would like to interview Verran, presumably to follow up on a previous interview they themselves had conducted.  What is bizarre about that?

If they are as closely involved in the Scotland Yard investigation as is claimed  ( to the extent where they are aware of information so sensitive and confidential that Kate is forbidden to even speak to her  mum  about it  ! )  then why would they  need to question Verran themselves  ?  ...   they would know all they need to know by simply asking the Yard what had  transpired when they officially questioed him

haven't you realised that asking questions leaves you in a mystery of confusion by now?

but yet you persist in baffling yourself.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #201 on: May 30, 2013, 08:21:59 PM »
How come the Verrans didnt come forward before 2009? To tell of their encounters with Hewlett? In May 2007? They appeared on the scene after the Mccanns PIs Edgar and Cowley were employed. Did they go to any police or to Metodo 3? One might think they were trying to find a patsy. Similarly the anonymous business man who waited two years to come forward to spill the beans about the Victoria Beckham lookalike encounter. And thats not the only two examples of witnesses to all and sundry coming out of the woodwork months and years later once the PIs began work.Gail Cooper, Antonio Cardoso and others too. And as for the latest tripe in the Mirror about the laundry man only coming forward now because of the secrecy of justide, what rot, he alledgedly spoke to the Mirror in Sept 07 when it was still in place, and btw it had expired in July 2008 so he had 5 years to contact them
 @)(++(*


Eta Id also like to know why Jane Tanners photofit sketch took till October to be produced

 


« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 08:24:52 PM by Redblossom »

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #202 on: May 30, 2013, 08:34:38 PM »
Are the bars open already?

Redblossom

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Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #203 on: May 30, 2013, 08:46:15 PM »
Are the bars open already?

No views on my post? never mind,ad hominem pettiness to be expected when you have no answer to odd situations


Offline TTSOFAFM

Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #204 on: May 30, 2013, 08:49:23 PM »



Eta Id also like to know why Jane Tanners photofit sketch took till October to be produced
If you bothered to read the files and Kate McCanns book you would know the answer to that question.. The PJ DID NOT have the software available for Jane Tanner to do a side sketch of the man she saw carrying a child..

From Ms Tanner's Rogatory Interview

Quote
Reply    “You see this is where now I’m really, I don’t even know whether it’s worth doing this, because there’s been so much, since then I’ve had the, when they took me round for the surveillance to look at, and I’m guessing now it’s MURAT they wanted me to look at and, you know, all the other bits and bobs, I really don’t know, but I think I’d prefer just to stick with what I said in my original statement, in terms of the, because even, I mean, this is coming back to the sketch, even when I did the sketch, by that stage, you know, things were, were murky, I needed to that sketch that first night, I mean, they took me in to do the sketch, but they only had, erm, front facing software, so you know, and at that point I said, you know, is there, can I do, because the clothes and everything was the thing was the thing that was the most in my mind then and I can remember saying to the chap I met on the stairs earlier, I think it’s (inaudible), is it?”
4078    “Yeah”.
Reply    “Because he took me in the car back and forth and I can remember saying to him on the way back ‘Look, is there a way I can do a sketch with clothes, you know, do you have software or any way that I can do a sketch of the clothes or a side, a side view’.  And he sort of said ‘No, we don’t have that feasible, you know, feasibility or availability’.  And I said then ‘Can I do that when I go back to the UK’, you know, because at that point it was in my head and it would have been, and they were the bits that I think would have been recognisable to get down on paper.  But at that point it was like ‘Oh no, we can’t do that, we don’t work in that way’.  Which I can understand and, you know, now obviously I think ‘Oh I should have pushed and really pushed’, but at that point you rely on, you don’t, you know, you’re just in such shock and you just think ‘Okay that’s the way things do’, but”.
4078    “Yeah”.
Reply    “But, I mean, I think, so the things that I’m happy, that are still in my head, that still stick in my head is the hair and it was longer, it was sort of longish and, erm, I don’t know how to (inaudible), but each, each, almost the hair was long, the bits of hair were long, so it was long into the neck, you know, sort of in, when people have a number one or whatever at the back and it’s shaved, not shaved up, but, you know, sort of layered up, this was more long into the neck, so sort of long, each, each individual hair was long, erm, and dark, it was sort of quite dark and glossy, that sticks in my head.  And sort of the dark, dark clothes and quite billowy, not billowy clothes, but quite baggy, sort of they seemed, erm, not ill fitting but quite baggy clothes, like not jeans, but trousers sort of not Chinos but not Farrahs either, but sort of baggy’ish sort of ill fitting more than.  And they’re the bits that I remember quite vividly sort of”.
4078    “And what colours?”
Reply    “Dark colours, but again it was, I think it was quite dark, so dark, sort of darkish jacket but then a more, a lighter trouser but a horrible colour, again this is, sort of a yellowy dark browny, horrible, but not, not a nice colour trousers, but then I wonder whether that was the lights making them look, making them look more of a sort of a mustard, it wasn’t mustard because that’s too bright, but it was just like a, as I say they weren’t nice, they weren’t the sort of clothes I’d expect somebody on a MARK WARNER holiday to, they was, I can’t think of the material, I tried to describe this before, but sort of a cottony material but baggy”.
4078    “You know the artist’s impression that you”.
Reply    “Umm”.
4078    “That has been circulated a lot.  How happy are you with that?”
Reply    “Erm, phew, reasonably, but, I mean, it was the best I could do after that time, I mean, it was more, the hair was the one thing on that that I wasn’t completely happy about but we couldn’t get it any better because it was the sort of, I almost think that might have been slightly too long or just, but on the whole I think the actual sort of style and everything was, was fairly right.  I mean, I tried to do that though from my original description that we wrote down, sort of well afterwards (inaudible) we tried to get all our thoughts down and I tried to do it as much as I could from that, because six months on, as I say, there was, I think the problem is there’d been so much put into my head since then, like doing the surveillance and, you know, looking at people on that and things, it was very hard to, to do it”.

And this is from Kate McCann's bestseller

Quote
All the preparatory work was now being put into action. Brian Kennedy arranged for Jane Tanner to see an FBI-accredited forensic sketch artist to try to create an image of the man she saw carrying a child on 3 May.

McCann, Kate (2011-05-12). Madeleine (p. 273). Random House UK. Kindle Edition.

It was Brian Kennedy, who decided to help the McCann family after they returned to the United Kingdom, who arranged for Jane Tanner to see an FBI accredited forensic sketch artist.  It is obvious from the Rogatory Interview that the PJ did not have the software to produce a proper e-fit for circulation.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #205 on: May 30, 2013, 08:49:51 PM »
Icabod, they said they would like to interview Verran, presumably to follow up on a previous interview they themselves had conducted.  What is bizarre about that?

If they are as closely involved in the Scotland Yard investigation as is claimed  ( to the extent where they are aware of information so sensitive and confidential that Kate is forbidden to even speak to her  mum  about it  ! )  then why would they  need to question Verran themselves  ?  ...   they would know all they need to know by simply asking the Yard what had  transpired when they officially questioed him

haven't you realised that asking questions leaves you in a mystery of confusion by now?

but yet you persist in baffling yourself.

In your ideal world, no one would ask any questions about a cold case, anathema to you and others in this particular case, unprecedented, as IF you actually knew the truth and therefore have the right to tell people to shut up

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #206 on: May 30, 2013, 08:57:04 PM »



Eta Id also like to know why Jane Tanners photofit sketch took till October to be produced
If you bothered to read the files and Kate McCanns book you would know the answer to that question.. The PJ DID NOT have the software available for Jane Tanner to do a side sketch of the man she saw carrying a child..

From Ms Tanner's Rogatory Interview

Quote
Reply    “You see this is where now I’m really, I don’t even know whether it’s worth doing this, because there’s been so much, since then I’ve had the, when they took me round for the surveillance to look at, and I’m guessing now it’s MURAT they wanted me to look at and, you know, all the other bits and bobs, I really don’t know, but I think I’d prefer just to stick with what I said in my original statement, in terms of the, because even, I mean, this is coming back to the sketch, even when I did the sketch, by that stage, you know, things were, were murky, I needed to that sketch that first night, I mean, they took me in to do the sketch, but they only had, erm, front facing software, so you know, and at that point I said, you know, is there, can I do, because the clothes and everything was the thing was the thing that was the most in my mind then and I can remember saying to the chap I met on the stairs earlier, I think it’s (inaudible), is it?”
4078    “Yeah”.
Reply    “Because he took me in the car back and forth and I can remember saying to him on the way back ‘Look, is there a way I can do a sketch with clothes, you know, do you have software or any way that I can do a sketch of the clothes or a side, a side view’.  And he sort of said ‘No, we don’t have that feasible, you know, feasibility or availability’.  And I said then ‘Can I do that when I go back to the UK’, you know, because at that point it was in my head and it would have been, and they were the bits that I think would have been recognisable to get down on paper.  But at that point it was like ‘Oh no, we can’t do that, we don’t work in that way’.  Which I can understand and, you know, now obviously I think ‘Oh I should have pushed and really pushed’, but at that point you rely on, you don’t, you know, you’re just in such shock and you just think ‘Okay that’s the way things do’, but”.
4078    “Yeah”.
Reply    “But, I mean, I think, so the things that I’m happy, that are still in my head, that still stick in my head is the hair and it was longer, it was sort of longish and, erm, I don’t know how to (inaudible), but each, each, almost the hair was long, the bits of hair were long, so it was long into the neck, you know, sort of in, when people have a number one or whatever at the back and it’s shaved, not shaved up, but, you know, sort of layered up, this was more long into the neck, so sort of long, each, each individual hair was long, erm, and dark, it was sort of quite dark and glossy, that sticks in my head.  And sort of the dark, dark clothes and quite billowy, not billowy clothes, but quite baggy, sort of they seemed, erm, not ill fitting but quite baggy clothes, like not jeans, but trousers sort of not Chinos but not Farrahs either, but sort of baggy’ish sort of ill fitting more than.  And they’re the bits that I remember quite vividly sort of”.
4078    “And what colours?”
Reply    “Dark colours, but again it was, I think it was quite dark, so dark, sort of darkish jacket but then a more, a lighter trouser but a horrible colour, again this is, sort of a yellowy dark browny, horrible, but not, not a nice colour trousers, but then I wonder whether that was the lights making them look, making them look more of a sort of a mustard, it wasn’t mustard because that’s too bright, but it was just like a, as I say they weren’t nice, they weren’t the sort of clothes I’d expect somebody on a MARK WARNER holiday to, they was, I can’t think of the material, I tried to describe this before, but sort of a cottony material but baggy”.
4078    “You know the artist’s impression that you”.
Reply    “Umm”.
4078    “That has been circulated a lot.  How happy are you with that?”
Reply    “Erm, phew, reasonably, but, I mean, it was the best I could do after that time, I mean, it was more, the hair was the one thing on that that I wasn’t completely happy about but we couldn’t get it any better because it was the sort of, I almost think that might have been slightly too long or just, but on the whole I think the actual sort of style and everything was, was fairly right.  I mean, I tried to do that though from my original description that we wrote down, sort of well afterwards (inaudible) we tried to get all our thoughts down and I tried to do it as much as I could from that, because six months on, as I say, there was, I think the problem is there’d been so much put into my head since then, like doing the surveillance and, you know, looking at people on that and things, it was very hard to, to do it”.

And this is from Kate McCann's bestseller

Quote
All the preparatory work was now being put into action. Brian Kennedy arranged for Jane Tanner to see an FBI-accredited forensic sketch artist to try to create an image of the man she saw carrying a child on 3 May.

McCann, Kate (2011-05-12). Madeleine (p. 273). Random House UK. Kindle Edition.

It was Brian Kennedy, who decided to help the McCann family after they returned to the United Kingdom, who arranged for Jane Tanner to see an FBI accredited forensic sketch artist.  It is obvious from the Rogatory Interview that the PJ did not have the software to produce a proper e-fit for circulation.


Thanks, thats cool then there, but what prevented the Mccanns and their myriad of helpers and advisers doing it off their own backs before then, its not as if they didnt do all manner of appeals, activities, conferences, LP support,and the rest and seeing as they were so convinced that was the man from the beginning.....oh, and if the PJ had no software how did they release a bunch of other efits from other witnesses?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 09:01:04 PM by Redblossom »

Offline TTSOFAFM

Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #207 on: May 30, 2013, 09:09:22 PM »


Thanks, thats cool then there, but what prevented the Mccanns and their myriad of helpers and advisers doing it off their own backs before then, its not as if they didnt do all manner of appeals, activities, conferences and the rest and seeing as they were so convinced that was the man from the beginning.....oh, and if the PJ had no software how did they release a bunch of other efits from other witnesses?
The PJ DID NOT have side facing software available to them and they DID NOT produce a sketch artist.  All the other e-fits produced by the PJ were full frontal, which they did have software for.

As for waiting until their return to the United Kingdom, perhaps the McCann family thought it best not to put themselves into a precarious situation, with regards to possibly breaching judicial secrecy or breaching some rule of the penal code. Hence they waited until they returned to the United Kingdom to get things moving.

But there again, whatever the McCann family do, some people will just nit pick purely because they detest this family.  Unfortunately attacking the McCann family does absolutely nothing in finding a missing child.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #208 on: May 30, 2013, 09:19:49 PM »


Thanks, thats cool then there, but what prevented the Mccanns and their myriad of helpers and advisers doing it off their own backs before then, its not as if they didnt do all manner of appeals, activities, conferences and the rest and seeing as they were so convinced that was the man from the beginning.....oh, and if the PJ had no software how did they release a bunch of other efits from other witnesses?
The PJ DID NOT have side facing software available to them and they DID NOT produce a sketch artist.  All the other e-fits produced by the PJ were full frontal, which they did have software for.

As for waiting until their return to the United Kingdom, perhaps the McCann family thought it best not to put themselves into a precarious situation, with regards to possibly breaching judicial secrecy or breaching some rule of the penal code. Hence they waited until they returned to the United Kingdom to get things moving.

But there again, whatever the McCann family do, some people will just nit pick purely because they detest this family.  Unfortunately attacking the McCann family does absolutely nothing in finding a missing child.

Thanks, I have no idea why in the 21st century a police force might not have or use a sketch artist, anyway the secrecy of justice argument is weak, as it doesnt stop applyng if one moves countries while a case is open

You ARE right that the Mccanns in some situations are damned if they do and damned if they dont, I have no quarrel with that, and there IS alot of nitpicking thats taken place, but it is not always the case, and I find your words misleading, some people might find the couple objectionable or suspect they are economical with the truth, doesnt mean they detest the whole family, dramatic embellishment there IMO

Offline TTSOFAFM

Re: Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?
« Reply #209 on: May 30, 2013, 09:36:11 PM »

Thanks, I have no idea why in the 21st century a police force might not have or use a sketch artist, anyway the secrecy of justice argument is weak, as it doesnt stop applyng if one moves countries while a case is open

When the Lead Co-Ordinator Goncalo Amaral states that there were weaknesses in fingerprinting and it is normal for a small Police Station to be like this and not have specialist investigators to deal with a case like child abduction, it does rather make you believe Jane Tanner's version of events, that they didn't have the proper equipment to issue a proper e-fit.