Poll

Peer Reviewed Research suggests that Scent Dogs of all types have a maximunm combined accuracy of about 90%

I Understand and Accept this
3 (50%)
I believe Scent Dogs are more accurate than this
1 (16.7%)
I am not sure
1 (16.7%)
I don't believe Scent Dogs generally are that accurate
1 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: July 24, 2018, 11:14:43 AM

Author Topic: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy  (Read 237576 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brietta

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #465 on: June 22, 2018, 11:36:31 AM »
Not section 6 which was originally highlighted.

Oh ... how did you make that one out?

6        Forensic services costs ........................................... 36
Forensic Canine Search Consultancy......................................................... 36
 - Mr Grime's Status and the Status of his Dogs ........................................ 37
 - Mr Grime's Contract............................................................................... 38
 - Mr Grime's Duties .................................................................................. 39
 - Observations, issues and recommendations ........................................... 41
LGC ... 43
 - Introductory Remarks............................................................................. 43
 - The Initial Search at HDLG ................................................................... 43
 - The Decision to Search inside HDLG .................................................... 44
 - The Excavation of the Building at HDLG and Discovery of JAR/6 ...... 45
 - The Lack of a Forensic Strategy............................................................. 46
 - The Search at Victoria Towers ............................................................... 47
 - Daily Rate versus Hourly Rate ............................................................... 47
 - Invoicing................................................................................................. 48
 - Observations, issues and recommendations ........................................... 49

https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Operation%20Rectangle%20review%20of%20the%20efficient%20and%20effective%20use%20of%20resources%20201005%20BDO%20Alto.pdf
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #466 on: June 22, 2018, 11:45:48 AM »
Perhaps you can point out what that has to do with scent dog accuracy?

Checks and balances, Slarti.

The first paragraph on page 38 notes that Mr Grime worked alone in Jersey, just as he had in Portugal.  Apparently this is not recommended.

https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Operation%20Rectangle%20review%20of%20the%20efficient%20and%20effective%20use%20of%20resources%20201005%20BDO%20Alto.pdf
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #467 on: June 22, 2018, 11:51:56 AM »
Checks and balances, Slarti.

The first paragraph on page 38 notes that Mr Grime worked alone in Jersey, just as he had in Portugal.  Apparently this is not recommended.

https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Operation%20Rectangle%20review%20of%20the%20efficient%20and%20effective%20use%20of%20resources%20201005%20BDO%20Alto.pdf

Apologies, title was costs.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #468 on: June 22, 2018, 11:52:54 AM »

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #469 on: June 22, 2018, 06:02:59 PM »
Not section 6 which was originally highlighted.
From section 6

The fact is that Mr Grime was not, at the time he was deployed in Jersey, an ACPO accredited police dog instructor, despite his claims to be so in statements and other documents submitted during his involvement in Operation Rectangle. Furthermore, the licence for his cadaver dog had expired some seven months prior to his arrival on the Island and the licence for his human blood detection dog expired in March 2008, whilst he was deployed in Jersey and using that dog. According to the ACPO Police Dog Working Group, “Dog and handler teams that, for whatever reason, fail to remain in-licence [are] deemed “not competent” for operational duty until such time as they [have] successfully undergone a re-licensing process”. Mr Grime has advised that his dogs are licensed by a suitably qualified person, although no further details have been provided to us.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #470 on: June 22, 2018, 06:24:11 PM »
licence for his human blood detection dog expired in March 2008.

The McCann case was 2007.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #471 on: June 22, 2018, 07:04:22 PM »
licence for his human blood detection dog expired in March 2008.

The McCann case was 2007.
The cadaver dog license expired some 7 months prior to Grimes arrival on the island in mid Feb 2008.  7 months back from mid Feb is mid July 2007. When were the searches carried out in PdL?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #472 on: June 22, 2018, 07:43:21 PM »
The cadaver dog license expired some 7 months prior to Grimes arrival on the island in mid Feb 2008.  7 months back from mid Feb is mid July 2007. When were the searches carried out in PdL?

Does the dogs nose stop working when it’s license expires?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #473 on: June 22, 2018, 08:34:09 PM »
Does the dogs nose stop working when it’s license expires?
Maybe.  Why do they have licenses which expire otherwise?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #474 on: June 22, 2018, 08:43:41 PM »
Maybe.  Why do they have licenses which expire otherwise?

Keeps someone in a job.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #475 on: June 22, 2018, 08:47:06 PM »
Keeps someone in a job.
That’s the only reason is it?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #476 on: June 22, 2018, 08:52:07 PM »
That’s the only reason is it?

Frequently, it would be interesting to know how many failed the regular recertification.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #477 on: June 22, 2018, 09:03:56 PM »
Frequently, it would be interesting to know how many failed the regular recertification.
So somewhere there’s a guy whose only job is to re-certify cadaver dogs?  LOL.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Online misty

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #478 on: June 23, 2018, 12:51:04 AM »
https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20Operation%20Rectangle%20review%20of%20the%20efficient%20and%20effective%20use%20of%20resources%20201005%20BDO%20Alto.pdf

(Report to the Minister and Accounting
Officer, Home Affairs Department,
States of Jersey
Operation Rectangle
Review of the Efficient and Effective
Use of Resources
May 2010)
snipped
The fact is that Mr Grime was not, at the time he was deployed in
Jersey, an ACPO accredited police dog instructor, despite his
claims to be so in statements and other documents submitted
during his involvement in Operation Rectangle.
Furthermore, the
licence for his cadaver dog had expired some seven months prior
to his arrival on the Island and the licence for his human blood
detection dog expired in March 2008, whilst he was deployed in
Jersey and using that dog. According to the ACPO Police Dog
Working Group, “Dog and handler teams that, for whatever
reason, fail to remain in-licence [are] deemed “not competent” for
operational duty until such time as they [have] successfully
undergone a re-licensing process”. Mr Grime has advised that his
dogs are licensed by a suitably qualified person, although no
further details have been provided to us.

ƒ We are not qualified to comment with any authority on what effect,
if any, Mr Grime’s lack of ACPO accreditation and the fact that his
dogs’ licences had expired, made on operations at Haut de la
Garenne, and this is outside the scope of this Review in any event.
However, we understand that throughout his deployment he
worked alone and in this respect we refer to Chapter 21 of the
ACPO Police Dog Training and Care Manual. This chapter deals
with searches for human remains and at paragraph 17.5 it states,
inter alia, “…consideration should be given to employing an
experienced dog handler to act as observer to advise the handler
on any such indications being given”. We are not aware of any
evidence indicating that Mr Grime benefited from the assistance of
another experienced dog handler during his deployment at Haut de
la Garenne, as recommended by the manual.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Online misty

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #479 on: June 23, 2018, 01:05:07 AM »
Also taken from the same document & imo the most potentially explosive piece of information in the report......


It was not until 25 March 2008, thirty seven days into his
deployment, that a draft written contract was sent via e-mail by Mr
Grime to FSM Coupland. This document (i) omitted the dates of
agreed deployment; (ii) stated that remuneration for the first five
days of the deployment would be £750 per day and £600 per day
thereafter – although a subsequent clause stated that non-UK
mainland daily rates would be negotiated separately; (iii) stated
that the copyright of ‘all data and information provided’ would rest
with the ‘Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police’ (sic);
and
(iv) was never signed either by Mr Grime or by a representative of
the States of Jersey Police.


 The CC of GMP was found dead less than 2 weeks before that email was written ("suicide").
Why would a CC, unconnected to the Jersey case, allegedly want copyright of all the data Grime gathered??