What is Kevin Craigie guilty of?

[Zed]

Yes, I've read it, it didn't specify what the piece of wood was but it was said it was a similar shape and size to a chair leg.

is kevin cragie trying to get his conviction over turned on a technicality then. is kevin another adrian prout? he was there when this man was murdered. he did nothing to stop his co-defendent from murdering this man and by kevin telling the police when he was interviewed, he kicked the body to see if it moved, it suggests hes guilty and was rightfully found so by a jury.

did kevin cragie manipulate mark fuller? is that why he blamed fuller for everything and tried to play down his part. does anyone think kevin cragie was a lot more involved in all this?

Craigie was 20 at the time while Fuller was only 18 but Fuller appears to be the more aggressive of the two.  It is interesting to note that Fuller served only 10 years for this horrendous murder while Craigie served 13.

Is that all a human life is worth???  10 years??

why would kevin serve longer than mark fuller? that doesnt make any sense.

Because he went oh hunger strike and wouldn't admit his guilt.   Fuller admitted his part from the outset and so was fast tracked to release.

so really then by claiming he is a miscarriage of justice, hes reverted back to his old ways and is once again in denial?

Wrong.Wrong.wrong. Try reading reading reading and more reading before commenting. The hunger strike actually did get a result..they went back to the Courts Appeal. Fuller did not admit from the start he alone was the killer....he said it was kevin craigie. Three years later he confessed to his probation officer. He got out early for co-operating with the nice Policemen who were a tad anxious at the prospect of kevin craigie proving he was not guilty nd thus exposing several nughty Policemen who had told lies and submitted false evidence. Two of them even retired early when the heat was turned up by Dame Barbara Mills who at the time was top dog at the CPS.

[sika]

I don't know why this topic is still up for discussion.  There's nothing to debate, Craigie is guilty, it couldn't be much clearer.  He obviously finds it very difficult to come to terms with what he has done.  His behavior on these forums is quite disturbing to witness.  However,  I do get the impression that he is genuinely remorseful.

[Jason]

I don't know why this topic is still up for discussion.  There's nothing to debate, Craigie is guilty, it couldn't be much clearer.  He obviously finds it very difficult to come to terms with what he has done.  His behavior on these forums is quite disturbing to witness.  However,  I do get the impression that he is genuinely remorseful.

Thanks to the good Lord you are a dying species.

Kevin Craigie is most probably not guilty

When I met him in London he was a genuine and sincere person. You can't mask that persona.

His behaviour on forums ? Kevin Craigie does not do forums. He tried contributing once here then realised it was not what he was misled to believe that it was.

[sika]

I don't know why this topic is still up for discussion.  There's nothing to debate, Craigie is guilty, it couldn't be much clearer.  He obviously finds it very difficult to come to terms with what he has done.  His behavior on these forums is quite disturbing to witness.  However,  I do get the impression that he is genuinely remorseful.

Thanks to the good Lord you are a dying species.

Kevin Craigie is most probably not guilty

When I met him in London he was a genuine and sincere person. You can't mask that persona.

His behaviour on forums ? Kevin Craigie does not do forums. He tried contributing once here then realised it was not what he was misled to believe that it was.

.  What makes you think that you are better placed to judge than the jury, who heard all the evidence?

[puglove]

I don't know why this topic is still up for discussion.  There's nothing to debate, Craigie is guilty, it couldn't be much clearer.  He obviously finds it very difficult to come to terms with what he has done.  His behavior on these forums is quite disturbing to witness.  However,  I do get the impression that he is genuinely remorseful.

Thanks to the good Lord you are a dying species.

Kevin Craigie is most probably not guilty

When I met him in London he was a genuine and sincere person. You can't mask that persona.

His behaviour on forums ? Kevin Craigie does not do forums. He tried contributing once here then realised it was not what he was misled to believe that it was.

From what I recall, Kevin posted on here at great length. He also posted several chapters of his book.

[Jason]

I am not better placed, nor claimed to be. However, having now read ALL the case files my conclusion is that he is not guilty. I also met him in London and months later in Manchester when we went there.Kevin Craigie spent over an hour discussing my brothers case with my wife and I. My brother then took the advice and got new lawyers to represent him.

The Jury? They wanted to acquitt Kevin Craigie and convict only Fuller. The Judge insisted they convict them both or acquitt them both. Then the Judge was minutes away from acquitting them when the Jury came back with a 10/2 verdict. Justice ? erm, not in my book it is not. Did you also know that Kevin Cragie was offered 8 yrs manslaughter if he pleaded guilty ?? This was within days of the trial starting. He refused, as any innocent man would do.

[puglove]

I am not better placed, nor claimed to be. However, having now read ALL the case files my conclusion is that he is not guilty. I also met him in London and months later in Manchester when we went there.Kevin Craigie spent over an hour discussing my brothers case with my wife and I. My brother then took the advice and got new lawyers to represent him.

The Jury? They wanted to acquitt Kevin Craigie and convict only Fuller. The Judge insisted they convict them both or acquitt them both. Then the Judge was minutes away from acquitting them when the Jury came back with a 10/2 verdict. Justice ? erm, not in my book it is not. Did you also know that Kevin Cragie was offered 8 yrs manslaughter if he pleaded guilty ?? This was within days of the trial starting. He refused, as any innocent man would do.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not completely au  fait with this case, but Kevin left a dying man at the scene? And stole his car?

[sika]

I am not better placed, nor claimed to be. However, having now read ALL the case files my conclusion is that he is not guilty. I also met him in London and months later in Manchester when we went there.Kevin Craigie spent over an hour discussing my brothers case with my wife and I. My brother then took the advice and got new lawyers to represent him.

The Jury? They wanted to acquitt Kevin Craigie and convict only Fuller. The Judge insisted they convict them both or acquitt them both. Then the Judge was minutes away from acquitting them when the Jury came back with a 10/2 verdict. Justice ? erm, not in my book it is not. Did you also know that Kevin Cragie was offered 8 yrs manslaughter if he pleaded guilty ?? This was within days of the trial starting. He refused, as any innocent man would do.

Thanks for your reply Jason.  I'm glad that you raised the point about the jury.  Craigie claimed that they were in tears because they wanted to aquit him.  I have so far been unable to find anything that verifies this claim. 

Regarding the manslaughter offer, I wonder if his legal team advised him to accept.  I would bet that they did.

[Jason]

Fuller was waving the murder weapon above his head !! Fuller had already struck Kevin on the wrist. He had no choice but to get in the car, even though he asked Fuller to leave without him. His intention being to raise the alarm as soon as he was physically away from Fuller...which he did.

Dont believe everything the ill informed say

[puglove]

Fuller was waving the murder weapon above his head !! Fuller had already struck Kevin on the wrist. He had no choice but to get in the car, even though he asked Fuller to leave without him. His intention being to raise the alarm as soon as he was physically away from Fuller...which he did.

Dont believe everything the ill informed say

And Kevin told you this?

[sika]

Fuller was waving the murder weapon above his head !! Fuller had already struck Kevin on the wrist. He had no choice but to get in the car, even though he asked Fuller to leave without him. His intention being to raise the alarm as soon as he was physically away from Fuller...which he did.

Dont believe everything the ill informed say

Who's to say that you've not been I'll informed?  That's why I would suggest that the jury were best placed to judge.  They not only hear Craigies defence but also the opposing view.  When talking about the issues regarding the jury, what/who is your source for this information.

[Jason]

Yes Sika the did advise him to accept.

Those solicitors who claimed to have been represeting him fled abroad after there offices were burnt to a crisp. Interpol were searching for them.

There were three crucial statements given by "William Smith" who was hiding from the Police in Scotland on a GBH charge. This Smith lived in the hostel alongside Kevin and Fuller. William Smith made three statements, only stating that they "conspired to rob queers" in the third statement. The Police
used him as a "witness" to back up their "Joint Enterprise"., which never existed. The other two statements vanished, and Kevins OWN legal team prompted him to return those crucial statements several times !!! He did not realise the significance until much later. The charge against William Smith was dropped in return for his services.

[Jason]

It is stated in the CCRC submissions, grounds of appeal, and also letters sent by Kevin Craigie to his M.P, Home Secretary, the Queen and the C.P.S in the early 1990's.
(The Jury asked a second time to acquitt Kevin and convict Fuller. (Kevin Craigie as a consequence HAD NO TRIAL)

[Jason]

Kevin told me this ? No,  It is all in the case papers going back to 1990. All it takes is to focus the mind and a lot of reading and researching to get to the actual truth.

[sika]

Yes Sika the did advise him to accept.

Those solicitors who claimed to have been represeting him fled abroad after there offices were burnt to a crisp. Interpol were searching for them.

There were three crucial statements given by "William Smith" who was hiding from the Police in Scotland on a GBH charge. This Smith lived in the hostel alongside Kevin and Fuller. William Smith made three statements, only stating that they "conspired to rob queers" in the third statement. The Police
used him as a "witness" to back up their "Joint Enterprise"., which never existed. The other two statements vanished, and Kevins OWN legal team prompted him to return those crucial statements several times !!! He did not realise the significance until much later. The charge against William Smith was dropped in return for his services.

I'm not sure how crucial Smith's evidence would have been.  I don't consider that their intentions were particularly relevant.