UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: G-Unit on May 13, 2020, 10:39:04 PM
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On 10th August 1985 Ann Eaton, Basil Cock and Robert and David Boutflour met up at White House Farm.
According to Ann Eaton they all met there at 3pm. [w/s 13/9/85]
According to David Boutflour he went there at 11am to meet Ann, who was already there. He confirmed that Mr Cock arrived in the afternoon. [w/s undated]
According to Robert Boutflour he went to the house with Ann where they met David and Mr Cock. [w/s 16/12/85]
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The next point is why the four people went to White House Farm.
According to David Boutflour they went to tidy up and to 'glean any information we could which would assist us in explaining the tragedy which had occured there'. [w/s 17/12/85]
According to Peter Eaton Ann and David went to the house to get Nevill's guns 'as we didn't like the thought of them being there when the house was empty' [w/s 16/12/85]
According to Ann Eaton they went at the request of Basil Cock. [CAL quotes CAE notes 11/12/94]
According to Cock he went at Ann's request and she told him Jeremy had asked for items of value to be put into safekeeping. [w/s 16/9/85 CAL]
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The next point is why the four people went to White House Farm.
According to David Boutflour they went to tidy up and to 'glean any information we could which would assist us in explaining the tragedy which had occured there'. [w/s 17/12/85]
According to Peter Eaton Ann and David went to the house to get Nevill's guns 'as we didn't like the thought of them being there when the house was empty' [w/s 16/12/85]
According to Ann Eaton they went at the request of Basil Cock. [CAL quotes CAE notes 11/12/94]
According to Cock he went at Ann's request and she told him Jeremy had asked for items of value to be put into safekeeping. [w/s 16/9/85 CAL]
Why cannot all be true? How likely do you believe it to be that they all got together to 'get their story straight' in case it was questioned 35 years later? It's perfectly possible that each gave the reason uppermost to them.
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Why cannot all be true? How likely do you believe it to be that they all got together to 'get their story straight' in case it was questioned 35 years later? It's perfectly possible that each gave the reason uppermost to them.
It's quite clear that they had an agenda which wasn't the one Ann Eaton gave to Basil Cock.
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Other points to note:
- The relatives, including Anthony Pargeter, put much emphasis on the silencer from day 1.
- When DCI Jones and DS Jones met the Eatons at WHF on 9th Aug to hand over the keys and go thru' the newly fitted alarm there's no mention the code was changed 8(0(*
- Despite the fact the relatives removed all valuables and firearms from WHF on 10th Aug why did Peter Eaton and Chris Nevill spend the night outside in CN's campervan ostensibly to safeguard WHF and its contents?
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It's quite clear that they had an agenda which wasn't the one Ann Eaton gave to Basil Cock.
Those agendas are likely to have been linked to the individual characters.
I've never seen David as a colourful character, even less a leader, and perhaps the least likely to have had one. I think he called it as he saw it. Information gleaning.
Peter Eaton was a gun dealer. His first interest would undoubtedly have been guns. Like most enthusiasts, he assumed others -in this case, Ann and David- were on the same mission.
Ann, very much her father's daughter, naturally authoritative, and a born leader, may well have sought to cover -what she believed to be a mutual agenda- by handing responsibility for the meeting to BC, who was actually there at her request. Her 'cover' story may well have been true, but it doesn't mean it was part of her agenda.
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Other points to note
Snip/
- Despite the fact the relatives removed all valuables and firearms from WHF on 10th Aug why did Peter Eaton and Chris Nevill spend the night outside in CN's campervan ostensibly to safeguard WHF and its contents?
It may have been their intention to remove more, but a lot of stuff was left there; perhaps Basil Cock stopped them?
In the event they managed to remove all the guns and related accessories and some jewellery.
They weren't authorised by Jeremy to remove anything, as is clear from his reaction on 30th August. It seems the family had returned some of the items they had taken but Pamela blatantly refused to return June's jewellery. [CAL Kindle p260]
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It may have been their intention to remove more, but a lot of stuff was left there; perhaps Basil Cock stopped them?
In the event they managed to remove all the guns and related accessories and some jewellery.
They weren't authorised by Jeremy to remove anything, as is clear from his reaction on 30th August. It seems the family had returned some of the items they had taken but Pamela blatantly refused to return June's jewellery. [CAL Kindle p260]
But why wouldn't PE and CN stay outside WHF on 9th Aug when the firearms, ammo and valuables were all in situ? Or did they stay on 9th and AE for whatever reason(s) said 10th in her COLP statement? Why according to AE was it the 10th? Why not the 9th or 11th?
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It may have been their intention to remove more, but a lot of stuff was left there; perhaps Basil Cock stopped them?
In the event they managed to remove all the guns and related accessories and some jewellery.
They weren't authorised by Jeremy to remove anything, as is clear from his reaction on 30th August. It seems the family had returned some of the items they had taken but Pamela blatantly refused to return June's jewellery. [CAL Kindle p260]
But, possibly, having put the idea to BC, that it wasn't safe to leave these items in any empty house, he agreed to their removal? Also possible is that Jeremy, having given permission for/agreed, for reasons best known to himself, feigned surprise. My own mother, having had all her jewellery stolen, might still have been in receipt of it, had she, as advised, given it to me for safe keeping. On this, I'm with Pamela, all the way. Family jewellery is only valuable to family. Other than that, it's just money.
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But why wouldn't PE and CN stay outside WHF on 9th Aug when the firearms, ammo and valuables were all in situ? Or did they stay on 9th and AE for whatever reason(s) said 10th in her COLP statement? Why according to AE was it the 10th? Why not the 9th or 11th?
Jeremy asked Ann to arrange security on the 10th/11th - how do you know one or both of them didn't stay there on 11th?
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But why wouldn't PE and CN stay outside WHF on 9th Aug when the firearms, ammo and valuables were all in situ? Or did they stay on 9th and AE for whatever reason(s) said 10th in her COLP statement? Why according to AE was it the 10th? Why not the 9th or 11th?
In Ann's note cards there are references to 'police guarding on 9th' and 'arrange Securicor for Saturday'. I suppose if Securicor weren't available at short notice that could be why.
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In Ann's note cards there are references to 'police guarding on 9th' and 'arrange Securicor for Saturday'. I suppose if Securicor weren't available at short notice that could be why.
I have just said above that Jeremy asked Ann to arrange security for the 10th/11th.
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I have just said above that Jeremy asked Ann to arrange security for the 10th/11th.
Sorry, I was ploughing through those note cards at the time. Did Jeremy say he asked Ann to arrange security? Sorry for asking for confirmation but Ann said he asked her to remove valuables, but I don't think he did, did he?
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Sorry, I was ploughing through those note cards at the time. Did Jeremy say he asked Ann to arrange security? Sorry for asking for confirmation but Ann said he asked her to remove valuables, but I don't think he did, did he?
I doubt you will ever be able to find a cross reference for every comment that was made. Jeremy hasn't questioned the comment. I agree that he wouldn't have asked the Eatons to remove articles from the house but at least Mr Cock was present.
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I doubt you will ever be able to find a cross reference for every comment that was made. Jeremy hasn't questioned the comment. I agree that he wouldn't have asked the Eatons to remove articles from the house but at least Mr Cock was present.
I haven't seen a statement by Mr Cock about that day.
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I haven't seen a statement by Mr Cock about that day.
What you have to remember is that not all of the statements are online, we only have what people have chosen to upload.
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What you have to remember is that not all of the statements are online, we only have what people have chosen to upload.
8((()*/
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To continue, what was found on 10th August, by whom and what actions were taken?
David Boutflour says he found the sound moderator in the cupboard under the stairs and noticed blood, red paint and a scratch on it. He took it to his sister's house and notified the police of his find. [w/s 12/9/85]
In his statement dated 17/12/85 he says his sister notified the police.
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To continue, what was found on 10th August, by whom and what actions were taken?
David Boutflour says he found the sound moderator in the cupboard under the stairs and noticed blood, red paint and a scratch on it. He took it to his sister's house and notified the police of his find. [w/s 12/9/85]
In his statement dated 17/12/85 he says his sister notified the police.
Do you think that information is incriminating? If so, what rating do you give the changes Bamber made in his statements on a scale of one to ten?
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Do you think that information is incriminating? If so, what rating do you give the changes Bamber made in his statements on a scale of one to ten?
I don't think you will get an answer.
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Do you think that information is incriminating? If so, what rating do you give the changes Bamber made in his statements on a scale of one to ten?
I have seen various posters saying he changed his statements but I haven't examined them as yet. I would imagine his memory is no better or worse than those of his relatives. The difference appears to be that his mistakes are seen as significant but theirs aren't.
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I have seen various posters saying he changed his statements but I haven't examined them as yet. I would imagine his memory is no better or worse than those of his relatives. The difference appears to be that his mistakes are seen as significant but theirs aren't.
No, the difference is that the Boutflours didn’t lie and trip up in their statements.
Jeremy tripped up in BOTH his statements made under caution...so he needn’t worry about his memory; it’s all there in black and white 😌
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I have seen various posters saying he changed his statements but I haven't examined them as yet. I would imagine his memory is no better or worse than those of his relatives. The difference appears to be that his mistakes are seen as significant but theirs aren't.
Just to add, Gunit
People NEVER forget the tiniest of details when a major event happens. Jeremy Bamber could NEVER forget every single thing he did not just that night of the murders, but the day before and after too.
He CHOOSES to lie to his sucked-in supporters, and they’re all gullible — or have issues of their own.
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I have seen various posters saying he changed his statements but I haven't examined them as yet. I would imagine his memory is no better or worse than those of his relatives. The difference appears to be that his mistakes are seen as significant but theirs aren't.
You might have expected when DS Jones collected the silencer from the relatives he would have taken statements then and there: who found it and subsequently handled it, the state it was found in etc but no instead he sat around drinking whisky with Peter Eaton.
I will find the statement re the whisky later. Have to go for the daily run now and then my floor/weight exercises 8(>((
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You might have expected when DS Jones collected the silencer from the relatives he would have taken statements then and there: who found it and subsequently handled it, the state it was found in etc but no instead he sat around drinking whisky with Peter Eaton.
Suspect DS Jones suffered some sort of trauma after having had to view the SOC left by Bamber
Can you blame him for having a whiskey
There was nothing normal about Bamber’s behaviour though Holly
Two days after the funerals he’d made a pass at Anji Greaves and had begun talking about marriage with her
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I have seen various posters saying he changed his statements but I haven't examined them as yet. I would imagine his memory is no better or worse than those of his relatives. The difference appears to be that his mistakes are seen as significant but theirs aren't.
I would have thought it quite important to have read the Bamber witness statements prior to reading those of his relatives who are only bit players in the drama while he is the principal. It surprises me that you haven't done that.
I did read as much of what Bamber had to say of any substance, only not bothering with the blog run on his behalf as short acquaintance with it revealed a bit of mind numbing misinformation being shamelessly disseminated from there; and I have certainly built a picture of him from what others have said about him.
I'm not easy with calling witness statements from obviously innocent individuals into question particularly considering the trivia of the substance particularly when considering what Bamber had to say..
I think initially it was a Bamber tactic to attempt to deflect his blame and money grubbing aspirations to the legitimate heirs of Nevill, June, Sheila, and the six year old Daniel and Nicholas's estates after he was found to have ruled himself out of the succession by killing them all.
I don't think it is for us internet detectives to do the work of mass murderer Bamber by interfering in the lives of innocents whose lives have been disrupted enough as a direct result of his despicable rampage.
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You might have expected when DS Jones collected the silencer from the relatives he would have taken statements then and there: who found it and subsequently handled it, the state it was found in etc but no instead he sat around drinking whisky with Peter Eaton.
I will find the statement re the whisky later. Have to go for the daily run now and then my floor/weight exercises 8(>((
I do hope DS Jones had a driver with him.
Isn't it wonderful that despite everything, the exhibit retained its integrity because the family's life's blood was too deep within its innards to be disturbed.
Signifying what an absolute bloodbath there must have been.
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I have seen various posters saying he changed his statements but I haven't examined them as yet. I would imagine his memory is no better or worse than those of his relatives. The difference appears to be that his mistakes are seen as significant but theirs aren't.
I’ll wager you’ll never start a threat to study Jeremy’s statement discrepancies in any depth.
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I have seen various posters saying he changed his statements but I haven't examined them as yet. I would imagine his memory is no better or worse than those of his relatives. The difference appears to be that his mistakes are seen as significant but theirs aren't.
(More excuses), why would he have discrepancies over such an important incident in his life? Look no further than the time he's supposed to have called the police. Perhaps you should examine them as part of your fence sitting stance?
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Suspect DS Jones suffered some sort of trauma after having had to view the SOC left by Bamber
Can you blame him for having a whiskey
There was nothing normal about Bamber’s behaviour though Holly
Two days after the funerals he’d made a pass at Anji Greaves and had begun talking about marriage with her
DS Jones quite possibly had a small glass of whisky as they all discussed the horrifying murders — many police officers back then had a quick small drink during a home visit — but he wasn’t a drunk, he wasn’t over the limit, and he didn’t have a drink problem where he had to “go on the wagon” 8**8:/:
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I would have thought it quite important to have read the Bamber witness statements prior to reading those of his relatives who are only bit players in the drama while he is the principal. It surprises me that you haven't done that.
I did read as much of what Bamber had to say of any substance, only not bothering with the blog run on his behalf as short acquaintance with it revealed a bit of mind numbing misinformation being shamelessly disseminated from there; and I have certainly built a picture of him from what others have said about him.
I'm not easy with calling witness statements from obviously innocent individuals into question particularly considering the trivia of the substance particularly when considering what Bamber had to say..
I think initially it was a Bamber tactic to attempt to deflect his blame and money grubbing aspirations to the legitimate heirs of Nevill, June, Sheila, and the six year old Daniel and Nicholas's estates after he was found to have ruled himself out of the succession by killing them all.
I don't think it is for us internet detectives to do the work of mass murderer Bamber by interfering in the lives of innocents whose lives have been disrupted enough as a direct result of his despicable rampage.
Well said, Brietta! 8@??)(
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(More excuses), why would he have discrepancies over such an important incident in his life? Look no further than the time he's supposed to have called the police. Perhaps you should examine them as part of your fence sitting stance?
Yes, all of Julie’s flatmates said they were awoken by the phone ringing in the early hours; out of the three who heard the phone they said the times ranged from “02.00 something” to 03:12.
Jeremy claimed Nevill phoned him at 03:15
And he didn’t phone the police until 03:26 or 03.36
What does Gunit make of that?
Oh, and I DO have the official document proving that...I’ve just spent an hour of my time trawling through documents to prove scientists discovered Sheila’s blood in the silencer...
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This one proves how few fingerprints of Sheila’s was on the rifle
Considering she was supposed to have fired about 25 bullets; reloaded the rifle; fought fiercely with Nevill as they both grappled with the rifle; was going around the house in a berserk fashion with the rifle in both her hands...how were only two of her fingerprints found on it?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Wrong one 🙄
THIS is the one about the telephone calls...
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Hopefully this will go through...
Great find! 8((()*/
SC ‘right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards
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Bamber’s ‘right forefinger print was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun
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Great find! 8((()*/
SC ring finger
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Bamber’s forefinger
Oh, I’ve found heaps more...evidence of Sheila’s blood in the silencer, the fact no blood was inside the barrel...
It’s taking time and I hate hunting through...but I’ll find it all, for sure 8((()*/
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I would have thought it quite important to have read the Bamber witness statements prior to reading those of his relatives who are only bit players in the drama while he is the principal. It surprises me that you haven't done that.
I did read as much of what Bamber had to say of any substance, only not bothering with the blog run on his behalf as short acquaintance with it revealed a bit of mind numbing misinformation being shamelessly disseminated from there; and I have certainly built a picture of him from what others have said about him.
I'm not easy with calling witness statements from obviously innocent individuals into question particularly considering the trivia of the substance particularly when considering what Bamber had to say..
I think initially it was a Bamber tactic to attempt to deflect his blame and money grubbing aspirations to the legitimate heirs of Nevill, June, Sheila, and the six year old Daniel and Nicholas's estates after he was found to have ruled himself out of the succession by killing them all.
I don't think it is for us internet detectives to do the work of mass murderer Bamber by interfering in the lives of innocents whose lives have been disrupted enough as a direct result of his despicable rampage.
8((()*/
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Oh, I’ve found heaps more...evidence of Sheila’s blood in the silencer, the fact no blood was inside the barrel...
It’s taking time and I hate hunting through...but I’ll find it all, for sure 8((()*/
8((()*/
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This one proves how few fingerprints of Sheila’s was on the rifle
Considering she was supposed to have fired about 25 bullets; reloaded the rifle; fought fiercely with Nevill as they both grappled with the rifle; was going around the house in a berserk fashion with the rifle in both her hands...how were only two of her fingerprints found on it?
One fingerprint from her ring finger
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One fingerprint from her ring finger
Just one?!
He was obviously in a rush to get home, probably to knock up a bacon sandwich.
In fact, he’s so disgusting, I wouldn’t be surprised if he took some bacon and eggs out the fridge in WHF as he left
I read his own fridge was always empty except for milk and booze — he liked to eat out all the time...
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I do hope DS Jones had a driver with him.
Isn't it wonderful that despite everything, the exhibit retained its integrity because the family's life's blood was too deep within its innards to be disturbed.
Signifying what an absolute bloodbath there must have been.
DS Jones drinking on duty with JB's relatives and no he didn't have a driver.
I'll take your other point to the correct thread.
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DS Jones drinking on duty with JB's relatives and no he didn't have a driver.
I'll take your other point to the correct thread.
I doubt he was the first or the last.