UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on June 17, 2020, 12:58:22 AM
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"The police log in the video has the figures 2 (downstairs) and 3 (upstairs). The numerals are clearly visible."
https://youtu.be/_1idaKFwNZs "Jeremy Bamber: CaseQT - Jeremy's Alibi"
IMO the only body that could have been moved easily would have been June Bamber.
There isn't the same amount of conversation about June as there is about Sheila or Nevill. I'm wondering why no one really talks about her as much. She died a pretty horrific death at the hands of someone else but can we be sure she died where she is finally photographed?
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In one of the photos of Sheila there is blood on the door directly behind her head. Did that bullet fragment and exit the head? The body of Sheila can not be moved as the external evidence supports the fact that she died where she was lying.
Are the same factors visible with June Bamber's body?
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=39401;image)
There is nothing about that photo, that proves to me she was shot in that position where she is lying.
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"The police log in the video has the figures 2 (downstairs) and 3 (upstairs). The numerals are clearly visible."
https://youtu.be/_1idaKFwNZs "Jeremy Bamber: CaseQT - Jeremy's Alibi"
IMO the only body that could have been moved easily would have been June Bamber.
There isn't the same amount of conversation about June as there is about Sheila or Nevill. I'm wondering why no one really talks about her as much. She died a pretty horrific death at the hands of someone else but can we be sure she died where she is finally photographed?
You need to read the raid team statements - it's nothing to do with there being two bodies.
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You need to read the raid team statements - it's nothing to do with there being two bodies.
Well where do I find them? (please let me have the URL link.)
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From the photo of June's bed IMO she has got up out of bed herself.
So where did she go?
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=39404;image)
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From this autopsy diagram, June had a total of 7 shots fired at her.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=29684;image)
The one I find most surprising is the bullet fired into her knee. The angle of that made me think it was taken while she was lying in her bed. As if the first shot was to maim rather than to kill.
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In court this was the evidence from the expert witness:
"The finding of the cartridges and nature of the wounds to the deceased 58. In all twenty-five cartridge cases were recovered from the scene and the firearms expert gave evidence of his opinion as to which of these could be associated with each particular victim.
59. Two bullets were recovered from June Bamber's side of the double bed in the main bedroom and were consistent with the shots that had caused the injuries to her right shoulder, chest and forearm.
60. Found in or just outside the bedroom were thirteen cartridge cases. Seven would account for the shots into June Bamber, two for the wounds suffered by Sheila Caffell, leaving four cartridge cases that had been fired at Nevill Bamber. Three further cartridge cases were found in the kitchen, with a further case on the stairs leading up from the kitchen. If one accepts that the four shots to the head which would have immobilised and killed Nevill Bamber were fired in the kitchen where his body was recovered, it would follow that he had received the less serious injuries upstairs in the bedroom and was then able to make his way downstairs where he was subsequently killed.
61. The last eight cartridge cases were recovered in the children's room and accounted for the injuries they suffered.
62. Mr Fletcher also gave evidence of the range at which the shots had been fired. The lower (and not immediately fatal) of the injuries suffered by Sheila Caffell was caused when the muzzle of the gun was within three inches of the throat. The upper injury was a contact shot.
63. Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body. The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely. Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.
64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body." http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
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"43. Mrs Bamber was bare footed and dressed in a nightdress. She had received seven gunshot wounds, of which one to her forehead and one to the right side of the head would have caused death very quickly. She also suffered shots to the right side of the lower part of her neck, the right forearm, two injuries to the right side of the chest and to the right knee. There was a great deal of blood on her body and clothing and from its pattern, it appeared that at some stage of the attack she had been in an upright position."
If the shots to her head would have caused death very quickly they must have been sustained last.
or she appears to have been shot in her bed but also in an upright position.
"147. The precise sequence of the killings was unclear. June Bamber was shot whilst still lying in bed but had managed to get up and walk a few steps before she collapsed and died by the main bedroom door. "
Is that bit true?
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In the thread "The 4 bullet fragments found in the master bedroom" Scipio posts http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7967.msg385946#msg385946
"1) All 4 of the fragments are from different bullets because they represent the bulk of a bullet and thus any 2 together add up to the weight of more than a complete unfired bullet.
2) June suffered 3 exit wounds thus 3 of the 4 pertain to such.
3) Nevill suffered a graze wound, the bullet did not enter thus the 4th fragment pertains to such wound
4) DRH/35A and B were located in June's pillow and line up with the trajectory of exit wounds from her Neck and arm.
She was shot in the neck while seated. The bullet entered her neck, traveled down and exited from her back then entered her pillow. Thus one shot in her pillow is definitely associated with such.
She was shot in the arm and the bullet exited her arm and went behind her into her pillow.
5) That leaves DRH/5 and DRH/9.
The location of DRH/9 was located inside the bed, specifically in the lower portion of the bed on June's side. This suggests it is related to the bullet that exited her leg.
The only way for DRH/5 to relate to her leg wound would be if:
A) the bullet passed through her and after exiting missed the bed, struck the floor to the side of the bed and then deflected to the dressing table
or
B) the bullet passed through her knee and still had tremendous velocity thus was able to enter the bed, to hit the floor under the bed and deflect towards the dressing table.
Both of the above are theoretically possible.
If DRH/5 was from such wound then that means DRH/9 had to be the bullet that grazed Nevill. The bullet would had to have bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced down into the lower part of the bed.
If DRH/9 was the bullet that exited June's leg then DRH/5 bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced into the corner near the dressing table.
June's leg wound passed through skin just it didn't damage bone so the bullet wasn't damaged much. If DRH/9 pertains to such wound the bullet was damaged significantly upon impacting the floor. If DRH/5 pertains to such wound there was minimal damage during impact.
DRH/5 2.42 grams (93.44% of a bullet)
DRH/9 1.67 grams (64.48% of a bullet)"
That is one remarkable detailed post - thanks scipio_usmc
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Without more photos I feel we have not proven that June Bamber was fatally shot in her bedroom.
There is a large section of her nightie that has no blood on it at all which only confirms IMO that she has been repositioned.
Is that section a white flag of some sort, like a flag of surrender? As I look at it it seems she has part of the flag in her hand and it has draped over the bottom part of her nightie.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=39401;image)
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Without more photos I feel we have not proven that June Bamber was fatally shot in her bedroom.
There is a large section of her nightie that has no blood on it at all which only confirms IMO that she has been repositioned.
Is that section a white flag of some sort, like a flag of surrender? As I look at it it seems she has part of the flag in her hand and it has draped over the bottom part of her nightie.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=39401;image)
Can’t see the picture — just a white box.
Are you suggesting June got a white flag from somewhere and held it up to surrender?
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I think if you join the so called Blue forum (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/) you will be able to see the photo. I don't know of other internet sites that have the photo.
Yes, it looks like she is holding a part roll of toilet paper that has unraveled by about 400 mm.
Search Google for the image result was "No other sizes of this image found."
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If the two headshots were what killed her I'd expect more blood on the floor associated with those shots.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=39401;image)
It appears a fact that I can't see any blood on the floor associated with those two headshots. Why is that?
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In the thread "The 4 bullet fragments found in the master bedroom" Scipio posts http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7967.msg385946#msg385946
"1) All 4 of the fragments are from different bullets because they represent the bulk of a bullet and thus any 2 together add up to the weight of more than a complete unfired bullet.
2) June suffered 3 exit wounds thus 3 of the 4 pertain to such.
3) Nevill suffered a graze wound, the bullet did not enter thus the 4th fragment pertains to such wound
4) DRH/35A and B were located in June's pillow and line up with the trajectory of exit wounds from her Neck and arm.
She was shot in the neck while seated. The bullet entered her neck, traveled down and exited from her back then entered her pillow. Thus one shot in her pillow is definitely associated with such.
She was shot in the arm and the bullet exited her arm and went behind her into her pillow.
5) That leaves DRH/5 and DRH/9.
The location of DRH/9 was located inside the bed, specifically in the lower portion of the bed on June's side. This suggests it is related to the bullet that exited her leg.
The only way for DRH/5 to relate to her leg wound would be if:
A) the bullet passed through her and after exiting missed the bed, struck the floor to the side of the bed and then deflected to the dressing table
or
B) the bullet passed through her knee and still had tremendous velocity thus was able to enter the bed, to hit the floor under the bed and deflect towards the dressing table.
Both of the above are theoretically possible.
If DRH/5 was from such wound then that means DRH/9 had to be the bullet that grazed Nevill. The bullet would had to have bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced down into the lower part of the bed.
If DRH/9 was the bullet that exited June's leg then DRH/5 bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced into the corner near the dressing table.
June's leg wound passed through skin just it didn't damage bone so the bullet wasn't damaged much. If DRH/9 pertains to such wound the bullet was damaged significantly upon impacting the floor. If DRH/5 pertains to such wound there was minimal damage during impact.
DRH/5 2.42 grams (93.44% of a bullet)
DRH/9 1.67 grams (64.48% of a bullet)"
That is one remarkable detailed post - thanks scipio_usmc
June sustained 7 entry wounds, 3 exit wounds and a non-penetrating gouge only wound ie 8 bullets were fired at June.
NB sustained 3 entry wounds and 1 graze only wound upstairs. The bullet from the graze only wound was seen radiologically.
The bullets in the main bedroom: DRH5, DRH9 and DRH35 x 2 all pertain to June.
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In the thread "The 4 bullet fragments found in the master bedroom" Scipio posts http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7967.msg385946#msg385946
"1) All 4 of the fragments are from different bullets because they represent the bulk of a bullet and thus any 2 together add up to the weight of more than a complete unfired bullet.
2) June suffered 3 exit wounds thus 3 of the 4 pertain to such.
3) Nevill suffered a graze wound, the bullet did not enter thus the 4th fragment pertains to such wound
4) DRH/35A and B were located in June's pillow and line up with the trajectory of exit wounds from her Neck and arm.
She was shot in the neck while seated. The bullet entered her neck, traveled down and exited from her back then entered her pillow. Thus one shot in her pillow is definitely associated with such.
She was shot in the arm and the bullet exited her arm and went behind her into her pillow.
5) That leaves DRH/5 and DRH/9.
The location of DRH/9 was located inside the bed, specifically in the lower portion of the bed on June's side. This suggests it is related to the bullet that exited her leg.
The only way for DRH/5 to relate to her leg wound would be if:
A) the bullet passed through her and after exiting missed the bed, struck the floor to the side of the bed and then deflected to the dressing table
or
B) the bullet passed through her knee and still had tremendous velocity thus was able to enter the bed, to hit the floor under the bed and deflect towards the dressing table.
Both of the above are theoretically possible.
If DRH/5 was from such wound then that means DRH/9 had to be the bullet that grazed Nevill. The bullet would had to have bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced down into the lower part of the bed.
If DRH/9 was the bullet that exited June's leg then DRH/5 bounced off the closet door or that wall and bounced into the corner near the dressing table.
June's leg wound passed through skin just it didn't damage bone so the bullet wasn't damaged much. If DRH/9 pertains to such wound the bullet was damaged significantly upon impacting the floor. If DRH/5 pertains to such wound there was minimal damage during impact.
DRH/5 2.42 grams (93.44% of a bullet)
DRH/9 1.67 grams (64.48% of a bullet)"
That is one remarkable detailed post - thanks scipio_usmc
That is a lot of bullets..a lot of noise.and are we still thinking a silencer wasn't used?
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That is a lot of bullets..a lot of noise.and are we still thinking a silencer wasn't used?
Does anyone know?
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That is a lot of bullets..a lot of noise.and are we still thinking a silencer wasn't used?
What was the decibel with and without silencer?
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What was the decibel with and without silencer?
They were low velocity .22 bullets so not a lot of noise really.
https://youtu.be/ohD8FT5Fs6c
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"60. Found in or just outside the bedroom were thirteen cartridge cases. Seven would account for the shots into June Bamber, two for the wounds suffered by Sheila Caffell, leaving four cartridge cases that had been fired at Nevill Bamber. Three further cartridge cases were found in the kitchen, with a further case on the stairs leading up from the kitchen. If one accepts that the four shots to the head which would have immobilised and killed Nevill Bamber were fired in the kitchen where his body was recovered, it would follow that he had received the less serious injuries upstairs in the bedroom and was then able to make his way downstairs where he was subsequently killed."
So the Court must have been given evidence that the first 3 shots to Nevill Bamber were received while he was in the main bedroom. So when we look at the floor all covered with blood spots a lot of them may be from Nevill's wounds rather than June even though she is lying on top of them.
There is a pattern here with the first shots fired into June and Nevill that appear to be non-lethal maiming type shots. If these were fired by Sheila, was she really not intending to kill her parents?
But that would still mean the shots into June and Nevill would have to be from the first magazine for it takes a bit of time to reload a magazine, time and two hands from experience.
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So Sheila has a near empty gun and the bullets to reload the magazine are down in the kitchen but so are both her parents, wounded but still on their feet. How is she going to reload the magazine?
Maybe it is at that point she decides to commit suicide, but how many bullets did she have left? One each for the kids and one for herself. That's 10 and that is all there was.
But then who does all the rest? That is the question. But after that, it is a series of lethal shots and a fight.
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Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Farm_murders#June_and_Nevill_Bamber
"The couple gave the children a good home and private education, but June was intensely religious and tried to force her children and grandchildren to adopt the same ideas. She had a poor relationship with Sheila, who felt June disapproved of her, and June's relationship with Jeremy was so troubled that he had apparently stopped speaking to her.[9] Sheila's ex-husband was concerned about the effect June was having on his sons. She made them kneel and pray with her, which upset him and the boys."
Daniel and Nicholas Caffell
....
"A week-long visit to White House Farm had been arranged for the August at the Bambers' request; the plan was that the boys would visit their grandparents with Sheila before going on holiday to Norway with their father. Daniel and Nicholas were reluctant to stay at the farm. They disliked that June made them pray, and in the car on the way asked their father to speak to her about it. In addition Daniel had become a vegetarian and was worried about being forced to eat meat.[15][16] When their father dropped them off at the house on 4 August, it was the last time he saw them. The boys are buried together in Highgate Cemetery. Sheila was cremated, and the urn with her ashes was placed in their coffin.[17]
Sheila Caffell:
.... "In 1974, when she was 17, she discovered she was pregnant by Colin Caffell. The Bambers arranged an abortion. Her relationship with her mother deteriorated significantly that summer, when June found Sheila and Colin sunbathing naked in a field. June reportedly started calling Sheila the "devil's child", which a psychiatrist identified as the trigger for Sheila's paranoid delusions about having been taken over by the devil.[22]
Sheila continued with her secretarial course, then trained as a hairdresser, and briefly found work as a model with the Lucie Clayton agency, which included two months' work in Tokyo.[23] She got pregnant again, and she and Colin married at Chelmsford Register Office in May 1977 when Sheila was 20, but she lost the baby at six months.[24] The Bambers bought the couple a garden flat in Carlingford Road, Hampstead, to help Sheila recuperate.[25] She suffered another miscarriage, then on 22 June 1979, after four months of bed rest in hospital, she gave birth to the twins. At around this time, Colin began an affair, one that led to his leaving Sheila five months after the birth. Sheila became increasingly upset; on one occasion, when Colin left her 21st birthday party with another woman, she required hospital treatment after breaking a window with her fist.[23][26] The couple divorced in May 1982.[12]"
Health
Sheila's mental health continued to decline, with episodes of banging her head against walls.[30] In 1983, her family doctor referred her to Dr. Hugh Ferguson, the psychiatrist who had treated June. Ferguson said she was in an agitated state, paranoid and psychotic. She was admitted to St Andrew's Hospital, a private psychiatric facility in Northampton, where she was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder,[31] although Ferguson said this diagnosis was a mistake, and that in his view she was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia.[32]
Ferguson wrote that Sheila believed the devil had given her the power to project evil onto others, and that she could make her sons have sex and cause violence with her. She called them the "devil's children", the phrase June had used of Sheila, and said she believed she was capable of murdering them or of getting them to kill others. She spoke about suicide, although the court heard that Ferguson did not regard her as a suicide risk. She was discharged in September 1983.[31] He continued treating her as an outpatient with trifluoperazine, an antipsychotic drug.[33] She was re-admitted to St Andrew's in March 1985, five months before the murders, after a psychotic episode in which she believed herself to be in direct communication with God and that certain people, including her boyfriend, were trying to hurt or kill her.[34] She was discharged just under four weeks later, and as an outpatient received a monthly injection of haloperidol, an antipsychotic drug that has a sedative effect.[35] From that point, the twins lived all or most of the time with Colin in Kilburn. According to Bamber, the family discussed placing the boys in daytime foster care over dinner on the night of the murders, with little response from Sheila.[36]
Despite Sheila's erratic mental state, her psychiatrist told the court that the kind of violence necessary to commit the murders was not consistent with his view of her. In particular, he said he did not believe she would have killed her father or children, because her difficult relationship was confined to her mother.[37] Her ex-husband said the same: that, despite her tendency to throw things and sometimes hit him, she had never harmed the children.[38] June Bamber's sister, Pamela Boutflour, testified that Sheila was not a violent person and that she had never known her to use a gun; June's niece, Ann Eaton, told the court that Sheila did not know how to use one.[39] Bamber disputed this, telling police on the night of the shooting, as they stood outside the house, that he and Sheila had gone target shooting together. He acknowledged later that he had not seen her fire a gun as an adult.[40]"
June
June's body and clothing were heavily bloodstained; she was found in her nightdress with bare feet. The police believe she had been sitting up during part of the attack, based on the pattern of blood on her clothing. She was found lying on the floor by the door of the master bedroom. She had been shot seven times. One shot to her forehead, between her eyes, was fired from under one foot away. That and another shot to the right side of her head would both have caused her death quickly, the court heard. There were also shots to the right side of her lower neck, her right forearm, and two injuries on the right side of her chest and right knee
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Summing up my observations again:
"There is a pattern here with the first shots fired into June and Nevill appear to be non-lethal maiming type shots. If these were fired by Sheila was she really not intending to kill her parents.
But that would still mean the shots into June and Nevill would have to be from the first magazine for it takes a bit of time to reload a magazine, time and two hands from experience.
So Sheila has a near-empty gun and the bullets to reload the magazine are down in the kitchen but so are both her parents now, wounded but still on their feet. How is she going to reload the magazine?
Maybe it is at that point she decides to commit suicide, but how many bullets did she have left? One for each of the kids and one for herself. That's 10 and that is all the shell that there was in the magazine.
But then who does all the rest? (25 Bullets fired) That is the question. But after that, it is a series of lethal shots and a fight.
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Summing up my observations again:
"There is a pattern here with the first shots fired into June and Nevill appear to be non-lethal maiming type shots. If these were fired by Sheila was she really not intending to kill her parents.
But that would still mean the shots into June and Nevill would have to be from the first magazine for it takes a bit of time to reload a magazine, time and two hands from experience.
So Sheila has a near-empty gun and the bullets to reload the magazine are down in the kitchen but so are both her parents now, wounded but still on their feet. How is she going to reload the magazine?
Maybe it is at that point she decides to commit suicide, but how many bullets did she have left? One for each of the kids and one for herself. That's 10 and that is all the shell that there was in the magazine.
But then who does all the rest? (25 Bullets fired) That is the question. But after that, it is a series of lethal shots and a fight.
I give up!
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I give up!
I can’t be bothered to even read it...
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I can’t be bothered to even read it...
Well, there you go. Blinded by the truth as they say.
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Well, there you go. Blinded by the truth as they say.
OR!! Perhaps blinded by a refusal to see it?
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OR!! Perhaps blinded by a refusal to see it?
I'll look at whatever anyone gives me. If Caroline has coloured photos shes sitting on let's see them, please.
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Well, there you go. Blinded by the truth as they say.
What?!!
Blinded by the truth?
You haven’t got a CLUE, let alone know what’s true.
You know absolutely nothing about this case; you go on and on and on asking pointless questions that were all answered and established 35 years ago.
Then you come out with THE most ludicrous scenarios you’ve played out inside your head, and expect people to respond!
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What?!!
Blinded by the truth?
You haven’t got a CLUE, let alone know what’s true.
You know absolutely nothing about this case; you go on and on and on asking pointless questions that were all answered and established 35 years ago.
Then you come out with THE most ludicrous scenarios you’ve played out inside your head, and expect people to respond!
Well, nobody is forced to respond.
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Well, nobody is forced to respond.
They don’t need to — he replies to himself.
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It’s a fair reflection Ispy, of where Bambers campaign is at the moment. You have to chuckle really.
So far this year he has seen his former best mate break his 35 year silence to condemn him, his sad campaign team have resigned, he lost in court again over some trifling matter and last but not least an ITV dramatisation that portrayed him pretty spot on and won him no new fans. Still, he must be heartened at the level of discussion on the Internet forums.
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It’s a fair reflection Ispy, of where Bambers campaign is at the moment. You have to chuckle really.
So far this year he has seen his former best mate break his 35 year silence to condemn him, his sad campaign team have resigned, he lost in court again over some trifling matter and last but not least an ITV dramatisation that portrayed him pretty spot on and won him no new fans. Still, he must be heartened at the level of discussion on the Internet forums.
You’re right, Steve, it’s better to laugh, really.
I suppose Jeremy Bamber will do one of his seasonal blogs at Christmas saying how it’s now almost 36 years he’s been cruelly incarcerated, and 2020 has been his annus horribilis out of all of them!
I wonder who he takes his fury and frustration out on inside?
Or maybe he leaves that for his hapless supporters when they tell him they can’t send him money and he rages down the phone to them and spouts how he’s never liked them anyway!😡
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I wonder who he takes his fury and frustration out on inside?
Or maybe he leaves that for his hapless supporters when they tell him they can’t send him money and he rages down the phone to them and spouts how he’s never liked them anyway!😡
He and John Cannan are mates, apparently. Both have protested their innocence for 60+ years between them.
Sadistic murderer-rapist John Cannan is a good guy in comparison, and can look forward to parole one day in the not too distant future.
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He and John Cannan are mates, apparently. Both have protested their innocence for 60+ years between them.
Sadistic murderer-rapist John Cannan is a good guy in comparison, and can look forward to parole one day in the not too distant future.
I know it is hard to talk about June Bamber as there is so little to discuss about her on the internet, but can we get back to the topic of just leave the thread as it is please.
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No more off topic discussion please.
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He and John Cannan are mates, apparently. Both have protested their innocence for 60+ years between them.
Sadistic murderer-rapist John Cannan is a good guy in comparison, and can look forward to parole one day in the not too distant future.
I did do a lengthy reply to you, Steve, which Rob has deleted.
I did mention John Cannan, only because he and Bamber are apparently friends in prison, but Rob put his foot down. 😌
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I did see it, thanks.
I understand the mods want to keep on topic but there’s not much to start a new thread with here. Anecdotes should be acceptable.
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It’s a fair reflection Ispy, of where Bambers campaign is at the moment. You have to chuckle really.
So far this year he has seen his former best mate break his 35 year silence to condemn him, his sad campaign team have resigned, he lost in court again over some trifling matter and last but not least an ITV dramatisation that portrayed him pretty spot on and won him no new fans. Still, he must be heartened at the level of discussion on the Internet forums.
It's all a sideshow Steve to the main event ie new forensic tests/CoA. 8((()*/
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It's all a sideshow Steve to the main event ie new forensic tests/CoA. 8((()*/
Happy daydreams, Holly ☺️
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It's all a sideshow Steve to the main event ie new forensic tests/CoA. 8((()*/
That will mean absolutely b....r all. Here is a quote from a study you might want to read you'll need to buy it though - however, it completes the challenge you set me. Still waiting for you to complete yours 8((()*/
Shots Fired with Silencers A Report on Four Cases and Experimental Testing
Johann Missliwetz, 1 M. D.; Wolfgang Denk, 2 M.D.," and Ingo Wieser 3
"Any assessment beyond doubt would only be possible if the used silencer were recovered for examination"
"The presented case also shows how easily a shot fired with a silencer can be mistaken for a shot fired without silencer when neither weapon nor the silencer are available for examination"
Like I have been telling you, any test would need to be undertaken with the actual murder weapon and silencer and even then you would have to prove that your findings (if they were different) - weren't down to chance and even then it wouldn't prove that on that day in 1985 that the conditions were suitable to allow blood to enter the silencer via drawback. I should also add, that in this study drawback did occur and was evident inside the silencers - which you said was impossible!
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That will mean absolutely b....r all. Here is a quote from a study you might want to read you'll need to buy it though - however, it completes the challenge you set me. Still waiting for you to complete yours 8((()*/
Shots Fired with Silencers A Report on Four Cases and Experimental Testing
Johann Missliwetz, 1 M. D.; Wolfgang Denk, 2 M.D.," and Ingo Wieser 3
"Any assessment beyond doubt would only be possible if the used silencer were recovered for examination"
"The presented case also shows how easily a shot fired with a silencer can be mistaken for a shot fired without silencer when neither weapon nor the silencer are available for examination"
Like I have been telling you, any test would need to be undertaken with the actual murder weapon and silencer and even then you would have to prove that your findings (if they were different) - weren't down to chance and even then it wouldn't prove that on that day in 1985 that the conditions allowed blood to enter the silencer via drawback. I should also add, that in this study drawback did occur and was evident inside the silencers - which you said was impossible!
I thought Holly would have known that considering she’s a ballistic expert having popped into a gun shop and asked to load a cartridge in a rifle 😌