Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!  (Read 24197 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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The bicycle
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2014, 04:07:22 AM »
I like how Jeremy's supporters say that whether Jeremy went by car or bicycle that he would have been seen by someone had he traveled to and from WHF on the night of the murders.

If he went around 2AM and returned around 3AM  who would be looking out their windows let alone on the roads to see him?  What is the chance that during the 6 minutes of travel each way that he would encounter someone at tha thour let alone some stray person driving at that hour would be someone who knows him and would be able to recognize him in the dark?  Whether by car or bike I see the chance of anyone encoutering him and being able to tell police they saw him extremely remote.  So it is not surprising no one saw him. You would think it was midday by the way his supporters claim someone would have to have seen him even if he was on the bike. 

Based on the fact that his mother purchased the bike only 1-2 weeks earlier I would say that is a good indication that he used it during the murders.  Why would his mother buy it then immediately loan it to him?  That makes little sense and why would he borrow it anyway since he had a car?  He seemed pretty lazy that he complained so much about riding a tractor I can't see him using a woman's bicycle for exercise.  Moreover he tried to suggest it was sitting at his place for weeks to try to pretend that it wasn't brought there for use in the murders. So in all likelihood he did use the bike to go to and from the murder scene.   

I can't help but laugh though anytime I read that someone would have to have seen him during the 6 minutes each way.  Based on their claims you would think it was a heavily traveled area and nice and bright out. 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2014, 08:49:14 AM »
He claimed that it was taken to Goldhanger for Julie to use but she denied this.  Setting off on the bicycle meant that the neighbours would not be alerted by the sound of a car. At night he would see any oncoming cars well before they could see him and be able to hide.  There was also a shortcut to the farm past some farm cottages and over a gate, an easy exercise for someone on a bike.

Also, remember that when examined the bike tyres' sidewalls were caked in mud, a classic sign that it had been ridden off road.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline Lindyhop

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2014, 12:08:33 PM »
At night he would see any oncoming cars well before they could see him and be able to hide.

Good point; hadn't thought of that.

Offline Passer-by

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2015, 09:42:09 PM »
Just read this thread and with all due respect few of these 'facts' are factual at all:  they are just as much supposition and theory as anywhere else. 

Offline starryian

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2015, 03:19:55 AM »
What may I ask, isn't factual? or can be taken into consideration in a court of law? The points here are well argued and well-grounded. Bamber is finished. His whole charade of trying to present himself as innocent is long over. The points he brought to his appeals were demolished in their entirety and shown for what they were - nothing more that strained constraints of the evidence or downright lies. I find it staggering how anyone can believe in any means shape or form that this man is innocent.
Starryian..

Offline sika

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2015, 09:14:45 AM »
Great to see starryian back.

Offline Passer-by

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2015, 11:36:18 AM »
Fact No 2                     Nevill Bamber never phoned the police that morning

Nevill Bamber did not telephone anyone on the morning he was murdered.  He couldn't have as the bedroom telephone had earlier been removed to the kitchen and the kitchen telephone hidden under some magazines.  Nevill Bamber was shot three times in his bedroom before he managed to get downstairs only to be beaten and shot several more times.  No blood was ever found on or around the kitchen telephone.

It was son Jeremy Bamber who telephoned the police around 3.30am and set the scene when he told them that his father had phoned him to say that Sheila had a gun and had gone berserk.  Records show that only one telephone call was ever received by Essex Police and that was from Jeremy Bamber.  Not only did Jeremy Bamber not dial 999 for emergency assistance but he took time to telephone his girlfriend in London and tell her that it had kicked off at the farmhouse. Interestingly, the evidence shows that this call t the girlfriend was placed around 3am, some 20 minutes before the call to police.

Well most of this for a start. 

Some people think he didn't phone anyone but they don't know so it is wrong to present this as fact.  The house sounds and looks like it was chock full of clutter and they might well have put a load of it on the phone in the kitchen themselves at some time beforehand, so when the kitchen phone that was actually in use, which I believe was a more practical cordless variety, was taken away for repair (I think the previous day?) after thunderstorm damage, the most 'normal' result is June deciding to move the little-used bedroom phone down to the most-used room in the house to replace it.

You also don't know that Nevill was upstairs when the shooting began, you just suppose he was:  whereas there's a lot of June's blood on  her side of the bed from her initial shots, I understand there's no blood from Nevill in the room at all. Only someone who has made up their mind it was the murderer who moved the telephone would close their mind to the possibility Nevill was elsewhere and was shot through the bedroom doorway whilst rushing to help, then retreated back to the kitchen where he was attacked again.  This would account for the casings, which ejected slightly forward and right, being by the bottom right corner of the bedroom, to the right of the door.

So if Nevill had been in the kitchen - possibly he had been talking to an upset Sheila, possibly he had heard a cow in distress giving birth in the shed next door, possibly he was getting a drink (there could be lots of perfectly normal reasons) it is perfectly possibly he heard the shots in the boys' room above, telephoned for help, heard June scream and dropped the phone to run to help her, leaving the line open.

Of course no blood would be found on the phone then.  Notwithstanding the fact the police proceeded to use it when they arrived so the phone in the crime scene photo is not an accurate recording of how it was left.

So why would he phone Jeremy? Well first of all he was nearest; second he knew all about Sheila's mental health problems unlike anyone else in the area so wouldn't need a lengthy explanation/be incredulous; thirdly at that point he may not have known/believed she would actually kill them all; fourthly, if he didn't also phone the police, it has to born in mind that calling the police would be hugely embassing in his role as a local magistrate and as judged from their war time history and the fact they had been secretive about both June's and Sheila's mental health it might just have been his hope to keep all the dirty laundry out if public view.

The call to the girlfriend:  everyone else changed their statements to retro-fit the time of that call, didn't they?  In 1985 clocks were mostly battery or clockwork powered and their accuracy relied on someone listening to the pips on Radio 4 to set the clock, and then the clock being a good time-keeper.  We are dealing with multiple people, multiple clocks, multiple locations.  Suddenly, with hindsight everyone realises they misremembered the times of the phonecalls:  the policeman got all muddled up between a 2 and a 5, Mugford's housemate keeps her clock 10mins fast (which they know to be true because a month later, after changing her mind they went to her house to check, and Lo and Behold it was 10 minutes fast.  Who'da Thunk It.  Whereas in his statements despite trying to persuade him otherwise JB remains clear he called the police first.

I use words like 'could', 'might', 'possibly', 'perhaps' etc because I cannot state anything as fact. 

Much like everyone else.

Offline Passer-by

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2015, 12:44:09 PM »
Fact No 1         Sheila was not bleeding when the police arrived

Sheila Caffell was NOT bleeding per sé when the police entered the scene of the murders. When her body was found it was photographed in situ several times both before and after being checked out for any signs of life.  In the first photograph taken by a police photographer it is obvious that blood had welled up in her mouth and throat effectively forming a reservoir of blood which had not yet congealed.  After death some of this blood had seeped from her mouth and a nostril and can be seen to have trickled down both sides of her face and congealed.  There is no evidence of continued bleeding from her mouth or from the two gunshot wounds to her throat.



Again, this is supposition not fact.  The pathologist said she could have been killed at any time during the night:  that includes around 7.00am just as much as it precludes it:  again, you cannot state as fact that she was not 'bleeding' when there is red blood coming from her wounds.  It doesn't mean she was alive, but it might indicate she died quite recently:  the pathologist refused to commit so I don't think a personal opinion on the matter should be counted as fact.

The marks on her nightie and the pathologist both indicate her head was slightly elevated at the time of the shot, yet in the photo accompanying this post her head is flat on the floor.  It is my personal opinion that the weight of her head forward may have blocked-off blood flow from the wounds, hence there is a mirror-image bloodstain around each wound.  I believe her head then later either rolled or was moved down to the floor, releasing blood from the wounds and also at that point from her nose and mouth:  this must have been not long prior to the photo being taken, hence  the blood is still wet and red.  The photo was taken a couple of hours after the police entered the house.  So it is a possibility that her head moved/was moved from the slightly elevated position against the bedside table:  however in the elevated position why would blood pool in her mouth?  There's a tube down to her lungs and a tube down to her stomach:  if there had been a long period of time since she was shot there would surely be blood run down into those organs, not welling up in her mouth.  We can tell this is the natural progress the blood wound have made because a large amount of it came out down her nightie.  There is no apparent blood trail for the quantity of blood on the nightshirt to the wounds:  the wounds appear to have a slight stain from her head being down closing the bullet holes, then the very clear to see blood trail which does not go to the stain on the nightie, it curves down to the floor.  We might surmise, therefore, that the nightie was in contact with one of the wounds and soaked in the blood, drawing it away - which would also have prevented much 'pooling'.

If the blood was pooling sufficiently to come out of her nose when the head went back on the floor, it is odd that it didn't didn't come out of her nose and mouth whilst slightly elevated - at the time the nightie stain occurred.  So in my opinion it is possible the wound was fresh enough that it was still bleeding.

Remember that we put someone in the Recovery Position because an unconscious person on their back can choke on fluids running back down their throat.  In the photograph that accompanied the original post, Sheila's nose and mouth are the highest points of her body:  it is strange that hours-old blood should be coming up and out of her body via them.

So the original post is not stating anything more than an opinion - like mine - as to whether or not SC was 'bleeding'.

However it is absolutely NOT a fact that Sheila was photographed before anyone checked for vital signs:  for pitysakes, the police entered after 7.00am and the photographs were taken 2-3 hours later.  She was checked for vital signs when the police entered, OBVIOUSLY.:  you find someone lying covered in blood your reaction is to rush to them and see if they can be saved..  This may have been when her head moved/was moved down into the floor.

It's interesting that by contrast everyone decided Nevill was dead just by looking at him.

But please, the whole point with this case is the severe shortage of 'facts':  it is all supposition and theory.


Offline puglove

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2015, 11:54:22 PM »
Great to see starryian back.

isn't it, though??!!       8@??)(     Legend!!

Bamber's life sounds like that of a battery hen. But at least good people sympathise with battery hens, fight for them, and ensure their release. They don't infight, tell massive porkies, and dick about baking shitty little cakes.     8(8-))
Bamber's hot new team. Mr. Kipling, Miss Piggy, and a fat bloke. It's all looking very hopeful.

Offline puglove

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2015, 12:15:02 AM »
Again, this is supposition not fact.  The pathologist said she could have been killed at any time during the night:  that includes around 7.00am just as much as it precludes it:  again, you cannot state as fact that she was not 'bleeding' when there is red blood coming from her wounds.  It doesn't mean she was alive, but it might indicate she died quite recently:  the pathologist refused to commit so I don't think a personal opinion on the matter should be counted as fact.

The marks on her nightie and the pathologist both indicate her head was slightly elevated at the time of the shot, yet in the photo accompanying this post her head is flat on the floor.  It is my personal opinion that the weight of her head forward may have blocked-off blood flow from the wounds, hence there is a mirror-image bloodstain around each wound.  I believe her head then later either rolled or was moved down to the floor, releasing blood from the wounds and also at that point from her nose and mouth:  this must have been not long prior to the photo being taken, hence  the blood is still wet and red.  The photo was taken a couple of hours after the police entered the house.  So it is a possibility that her head moved/was moved from the slightly elevated position against the bedside table:  however in the elevated position why would blood pool in her mouth?  There's a tube down to her lungs and a tube down to her stomach:  if there had been a long period of time since she was shot there would surely be blood run down into those organs, not welling up in her mouth.  We can tell this is the natural progress the blood wound have made because a large amount of it came out down her nightie.  There is no apparent blood trail for the quantity of blood on the nightshirt to the wounds:  the wounds appear to have a slight stain from her head being down closing the bullet holes, then the very clear to see blood trail which does not go to the stain on the nightie, it curves down to the floor.  We might surmise, therefore, that the nightie was in contact with one of the wounds and soaked in the blood, drawing it away - which would also have prevented much 'pooling'.

If the blood was pooling sufficiently to come out of her nose when the head went back on the floor, it is odd that it didn't didn't come out of her nose and mouth whilst slightly elevated - at the time the nightie stain occurred.  So in my opinion it is possible the wound was fresh enough that it was still bleeding.

Remember that we put someone in the Recovery Position because an unconscious person on their back can choke on fluids running back down their throat.  In the photograph that accompanied the original post, Sheila's nose and mouth are the highest points of her body:  it is strange that hours-old blood should be coming up and out of her body via them.

So the original post is not stating anything more than an opinion - like mine - as to whether or not SC was 'bleeding'.

However it is absolutely NOT a fact that Sheila was photographed before anyone checked for vital signs:  for pitysakes, the police entered after 7.00am and the photographs were taken 2-3 hours later.  She was checked for vital signs when the police entered, OBVIOUSLY.:  you find someone lying covered in blood your reaction is to rush to them and see if they can be saved..  This may have been when her head moved/was moved down into the floor.

It's interesting that by contrast everyone decided Nevill was dead just by looking at him.

But please, the whole point with this case is the severe shortage of 'facts':  it is all supposition and theory.

I could (if I could be arsed) rip all of this to shreds. It's been done to death, and we're all tired of the barrel being scraped.

In 20 years time, if Bamber is still alive, and anyone is still interested, have another go. Bore us all shitless with the phone call that Ralph never made, and Sheila shooting herself and running around the house, barking like a dog, and the magical blood in the silencer. In passing, have a shred of respect for Colin.

And I promise you. Bamber will still be banged up, grey as a badger's arse, grizzling that he didn't do it. But he did. And nothing will change. Ever.
Bamber's hot new team. Mr. Kipling, Miss Piggy, and a fat bloke. It's all looking very hopeful.

Offline puglove

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2015, 12:39:34 AM »
Still waiting for you and me to have a Bamber-off, passer by.

Guess you know when you're whooped.

Toods!!
Bamber's hot new team. Mr. Kipling, Miss Piggy, and a fat bloke. It's all looking very hopeful.

Offline puglove

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2015, 12:56:43 AM »
Still waiting for you and me to have a Bamber-off, passer by.

Guess you know when you're whooped.

Toods!!

passer-by....I can see that you're typing madly with your chimpy opposable thumbs. But I'm off to bed. I'll catch you in the morning. Let me know if it's something relevant.
Bamber's hot new team. Mr. Kipling, Miss Piggy, and a fat bloke. It's all looking very hopeful.

Offline Passer-by

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2015, 01:51:28 AM »
I could (if I could be arsed) rip all of this to shreds. It's been done to death, and we're all tired of the barrel being scraped.

In 20 years time, if Bamber is still alive, and anyone is still interested, have another go. Bore us all shitless with the phone call that Ralph never made, and Sheila shooting herself and running around the house, barking like a dog, and the magical blood in the silencer. In passing, have a shred of respect for Colin.

And I promise you. Bamber will still be banged up, grey as a badger's arse, grizzling that he didn't do it. But he did. And nothing will change. Ever.

When did I say Sheila was barking like a dog?

Offline Passer-by

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2015, 01:52:39 AM »
passer-by....I can see that you're typing madly with your chimpy opposable thumbs. But I'm off to bed. I'll catch you in the morning. Let me know if it's something relevant.

Alas no:  one finger :-P

Offline Passer-by

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Re: Jeremy Bamber - We correct the falsehoods being promoted in the case!
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2015, 12:16:19 PM »
Morning Puglove!  I deduce from your post above that you didn't read mine and your opinion on what I might have said is coloured by what you've heard from the legendary 'blue' forum.

To clarify:  I have expressly said I don't see how Sheila could have moved around the house after shooting herself and I've never said she impersonated a dog - that's so weird I can't understand how you arrived at it?!  I'd say it was likely the dog was barking like a dog:  simple things are simple.  I'm a bit surprised if it was Bamber that he didn't shoot it for being noisy and annoying. 

As I have posted elsewhere I think most of the problem with this case is people reading far more into what happened than is necessary, kicking off with 'no-one can shoot themselves in the head twice therefore it must be murder'.