Luz

[debunker]

Now you are posting again you still owe the board several references to information that you claimed but never verified.

Disappearing for a few days is no excuse.

Let us start with the Portuguese law on Neglect of Children.

You claimed that intent to harm was not part of the law. Please provide the cite.

I will go back and look at the other hanging questions you have left. Anyone else want to help?

[Luz]

Well, I don't have my books at hand and so I tried to retrieve from the net the article from the Penal Code addressing negligence, I'm not happy with this stance, since it is not what I recall from the books, but here it goes:

Artigo 15º Negligência (Negligence)
Age com negligência quem, por não proceder com o cuidado a que, segundo as circunstâncias, está
obrigado e de que é capaz: (Acts with negligence who, by not acting with the care under the circunstances, is obliged to or is capable of)

a) Representar como possível a realização de um facto que preenche um tipo de crime mas actuar
sem se conformar com essa realização ( To represent as a possible outcome a fact that corresponds to any sort of crime but act without consideration to that kind of concretization) ; ou/ or

b) Não chegar sequer a representar a possibilidade de realização do facto. ( Someone that  doesn't even realize the possibility of the concretization of such fact. )

(http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/population/domesticviolence/portugal.penal.95.pdf

I hope this helps, but as soon as I get my hands back on my tools I'll be more specific.


P.S. I would never apply for a translator position, too hard.

[Joanne]

Why do you think this is a lynch mob style forum? I've had enough of logging on, you attacking people and trying to take over, well have the forum for me but stop bullying people because they have an opinion, they don't have to verify an opinion to you.

[Tim Invictus]

Why do you think this is a lynch mob style forum? I've had enough of logging on, you attacking people and trying to take over, well have the forum for me but stop bullying people because they have an opinion, they don't have to verify an opinion to you.

Well said [Name removed]o ...... every post I see of Debunker's seems to have a bac attitude!

[Luz]

Negligence is a general law in the Penal Code that applies to every instance. There are specific laws for specific crimes, that would be too long to state here.

Since the 80ies and especially in the early 90ies, laws concerning youth and children have been greatly implemented. They go to the point that if you do not report a suspicion of child abuse you are in contempt of law.

Five years ago I had to go go to a Court hearing (?) to give a testimony that one of my students that had witnessed  a case of child abuse had not reported it directly to the police under my recommendation, but to the director of the institution where she was doing her training.

Whenever you breach your basic obligations towards a child, and it includes adequate supervision, the law obliges any witness to report it.

[Angelo222]

Luz.  What does the law in Portugal say about leaving children under the age of 4 alone for periods of time in a holiday apartment while the parents go off socialising?

[Luz]

As I said I do not have the books here and I'm too clumsy to get thinggies from the net.

The question about the McCann eventual negligence having or not intention to harm had to do with the timelines of the sentences. If simple neglect, with "no intention to harm", the sentence goes up to 2 years (if my memory serves me right), and usually it is substituted by suspended sentence and/or eventually work towards the community. If there is a realization of danger (as there was as the McCann said that they left the back door open in case there was a fire - sorry, can't provide a link right now), than the sentence can be 5 to 10 years in prison. 

[Angelo222]

The GNR or the PJ must not have taken the view that there was any neglect and they had all the facts from the outset. 

[Luz]

Luz.  What does the law in Portugal say about leaving children under the age of 4 alone for periods of time in a holiday apartment while the parents go off socialising?

According to the law, leaving children under 12 y.o. unattended or with no means of surveillance is a crime. There has been many cases in Portugal reported in the news, most of which were single mothers with no income to support a day-to-day survival, much less a daycare facility,  but even so, not enough has been reported and sanctioned legally, in my opinion. There are still those that have the power and/or means to do what they will with the children as if objects, and no sanction will ever come upon them.

The McCann are not an exclusive trademark for Rothley, UK, unfortunately there are too many around the world. What makes the McCann especial is the way they used the press and a sect of trolls to try to undermine the public opinion. They are particular because they achieved an incredible manipulation of the Uk Government in order to give them what no other family of a missing child had ever achieved: a REVIEW of a case that they and the UK authorities boycotted from the day one.

But what does it matter what the laws for negligence are in Portugal? The negligence  flare was always a distraction. How could anyone be going back and forth from a restaurant for every 15 min, it takes at least 5 minutes to go from the restaurant to the front door, unless you were training for the marathon...oh sorry, on the latest depositions they said it was every 30 minutes. I am not going over there, that is all in the files (o I have to post every link here?! (get your lovely butt down and suuurch...http://www.mccannfiles.com/)
 
Reiterating, leaving children unattended is a crime. But it is a worse crime to occult or mess up with the evidence of a crime against a child.

[amaraltheofficeboy]

5 minutes

despite there being a very long discussion on here about the distance  >@@(*&)

[debunker]

Well, I don't have my books at hand and so I tried to retrieve from the net the article from the Penal Code addressing negligence, I'm not happy with this stance, since it is not what I recall from the books, but here it goes:

Artigo 15º Negligência (Negligence)
Age com negligência quem, por não proceder com o cuidado a que, segundo as circunstâncias, está
obrigado e de que é capaz: (Acts with negligence who, by not acting with the care under the circunstances, is obliged to or is capable of)

a) Representar como possível a realização de um facto que preenche um tipo de crime mas actuar
sem se conformar com essa realização ( To represent as a possible outcome a fact that corresponds to any sort of crime but act without consideration to that kind of concretization) ; ou/ or

b) Não chegar sequer a representar a possibilidade de realização do facto. ( Someone that  doesn't even realize the possibility of the concretization of such fact. )

(http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/population/domesticviolence/portugal.penal.95.pdf

I hope this helps, but as soon as I get my hands back on my tools I'll be more specific.


P.S. I would never apply for a translator position, too hard.

That is not the law on child neglect- please cite that law.

[debunker]

Luz.  What does the law in Portugal say about leaving children under the age of 4 alone for periods of time in a holiday apartment while the parents go off socialising?

Nothing.

[Luz]

Well, I don't have my books at hand and so I tried to retrieve from the net the article from the Penal Code addressing negligence, I'm not happy with this stance, since it is not what I recall from the books, but here it goes:

Artigo 15º Negligência (Negligence)
Age com negligência quem, por não proceder com o cuidado a que, segundo as circunstâncias, está
obrigado e de que é capaz: (Acts with negligence who, by not acting with the care under the circunstances, is obliged to or is capable of)

a) Representar como possível a realização de um facto que preenche um tipo de crime mas actuar
sem se conformar com essa realização ( To represent as a possible outcome a fact that corresponds to any sort of crime but act without consideration to that kind of concretization) ; ou/ or

b) Não chegar sequer a representar a possibilidade de realização do facto. ( Someone that  doesn't even realize the possibility of the concretization of such fact. )

(http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/population/domesticviolence/portugal.penal.95.pdf

I hope this helps, but as soon as I get my hands back on my tools I'll be more specific.


P.S. I would never apply for a translator position, too hard.

That is not the law on child neglect- please cite that law.

You quote the law, since you are such an expert on portuguese law.

[Luz]

LUZ would appreciate never again being used to start threads in this Forum.

Luz doesn't hold the stardom of Kate McCann and would be very unhappy to - the woman looks like s---, as Galloway put it some years ago - and never lost a child, or a pet, or even a wallet...., the only thing I lost was my mind, to keep feeding your foolish arguments in here.

[Joanne]

Luz-you don't have to justify your presence here, you have done nothing to antagonize anyone, he just wants to be right all the time and have the last word, don't let him put you off posting here, just hit the report button mate.