Author Topic: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.  (Read 11427 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline John

Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« on: May 20, 2013, 07:50:32 PM »
Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.




http://minnea.blogspot.co.uk/2008/12/portugal-dangerous-place-for-children.html
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2013, 11:53:49 PM »
Oh, John I see you have done a map.  Well done, but that includes other age groups and other criteria



My specification was Pre pubescent child abductions by a Stranger (under 15 years old)

Particularily the Abductees around Lisbon, who are older, would not likely have been done by a paedophile.

Carolina Santos is missing off that map too.  The PJ did not consider that an abduction, despite the fact that she was walked off some considerable distance before being called back by her paerents.

I consider it an abduction ... a short term frustrated one
If you want to know the real facts read :  http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page

Hitler is credited with saying "Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth.
= "Propaganda personified."

Offline John

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2013, 03:01:16 AM »
Yes, I was half-way through doing a new thread for Carolina when I noticed that the abduction was challenged as being a hoax.  Some think that it was simply an attempt by the parents to milk the whole Madeleine thing.



THE parents of a Madeleine McCann lookalike who was the victim of a kidnap bid are to be quizzed by private detectives.
Blue-eyed blonde Carolina Santos, three, was snatched by a Moroccan-looking man four months before Maddie vanished.

The incident happened just 30 minutes’ drive from the McCanns’ holiday flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
Carolina’s parents Abel and Lina offered to help cops two weeks after Maddie, four, disappeared but were never questioned.
Maddie ... snatched to order?

Abel, 40, said yesterday: “We want to see Maddie found as much as anyone.
“She and Carolina are doubles.”

He and Lina, 29, were working in their cafe at Fonte Louzeiros when Carolina vanished last Christmas Day.They spotted her with the stranger 300 yards away. When they caught up he fled.
Lina said: “If we hadn’t come out at that moment I don’t know what would have happened.”
It is feared Maddie may have been snatched to order and taken to Morocco.


What are the members views?

http://rosaleen-thewhistler.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/caroline-santos-snatched-in-portugal.html
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 03:07:09 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2013, 03:06:56 AM »
Yes, I was half-way through doing a new thread for Carolina when I noticed that the abduction was challenged as being a hoax.  Some think that it was simply an attempt by the parents to milk the whole Madeleine thing.

What are the members views?

http://rosaleen-thewhistler.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/caroline-santos-snatched-in-portugal.html

Whatever our members views are,  you  (  and your fellow admin )   must be congratulated for allowing open debate

Well done UK Justice forum 

Offline Luz

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2013, 08:31:48 AM »
Yes, I was half-way through doing a new thread for Carolina when I noticed that the abduction was challenged as being a hoax.  Some think that it was simply an attempt by the parents to milk the whole Madeleine thing.



THE parents of a Madeleine McCann lookalike who was the victim of a kidnap bid are to be quizzed by private detectives.
Blue-eyed blonde Carolina Santos, three, was snatched by a Moroccan-looking man four months before Maddie vanished.

The incident happened just 30 minutes’ drive from the McCanns’ holiday flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
Carolina’s parents Abel and Lina offered to help cops two weeks after Maddie, four, disappeared but were never questioned.
Maddie ... snatched to order?

Abel, 40, said yesterday: “We want to see Maddie found as much as anyone.
“She and Carolina are doubles.”

He and Lina, 29, were working in their cafe at Fonte Louzeiros when Carolina vanished last Christmas Day.They spotted her with the stranger 300 yards away. When they caught up he fled.
Lina said: “If we hadn’t come out at that moment I don’t know what would have happened.”
It is feared Maddie may have been snatched to order and taken to Morocco.


What are the members views?

http://rosaleen-thewhistler.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/caroline-santos-snatched-in-portugal.html

It was an hoax declenched by the McCann hysteria.
I can't access the original Diário de Notícias article, which was reproduced by the Brit media, but a journalist has a blog where he denounced the hoax: http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.pt/2007/12/sun-produces-another-fake-report.html

P.S. I know that café and the parents and child, but since I'm here anonymous my word is worth as much as any other anonymous member.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 08:40:04 AM by Luz »

Offline Luz

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2013, 08:34:57 AM »
Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.




http://minnea.blogspot.co.uk/2008/12/portugal-dangerous-place-for-children.html

By the way, congratulations for the map. I didn't have time to go over it yet, but it's evident that the Algarve is not the region where children tend to be taken away by strangers or parents (parental kidnapping is one of the major reasons for the disappearance of young minors, but those are usually quickly resolved).

Offline sadie

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2013, 09:02:28 AM »
Yes, I was half-way through doing a new thread for Carolina when I noticed that the abduction was challenged as being a hoax.  Some think that it was simply an attempt by the parents to milk the whole Madeleine thing.



THE parents of a Madeleine McCann lookalike who was the victim of a kidnap bid are to be quizzed by private detectives.
Blue-eyed blonde Carolina Santos, three, was snatched by a Moroccan-looking man four months before Maddie vanished.

The incident happened just 30 minutes’ drive from the McCanns’ holiday flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
Carolina’s parents Abel and Lina offered to help cops two weeks after Maddie, four, disappeared but were never questioned.
Maddie ... snatched to order?

Abel, 40, said yesterday: “We want to see Maddie found as much as anyone.
“She and Carolina are doubles.”

He and Lina, 29, were working in their cafe at Fonte Louzeiros when Carolina vanished last Christmas Day.They spotted her with the stranger 300 yards away. When they caught up he fled.
Lina said: “If we hadn’t come out at that moment I don’t know what would have happened.”
It is feared Maddie may have been snatched to order and taken to Morocco.


What are the members views?

http://rosaleen-thewhistler.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/caroline-santos-snatched-in-portugal.html

Pretty little girl.

Don't know why people are saying that it is a hoax  Carolina was walked off over 4 months before the name Madeleine McCann  was ever heard in Portugal.  So that can't have affected Carolinas abduction.  It happened.

It is not important to Madeline's case if it is true that Carolinas parents are now milking the publicity.  After all, the milking took place after Madeline's abduction.  Carolina WAS ABDUCTED earlier.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 01:27:02 PM by John »
If you want to know the real facts read :  http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page

Hitler is credited with saying "Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth.
= "Propaganda personified."

Offline John

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2013, 02:22:16 PM »
I am not sure what to refer to the case of Carolina as?  Technically she was abducted but only for a matter of minutes.   I suppose it is a failed abduction?

It is rather disturbing if this report is real but is being discredited.  This incident occurred on Christmas day 2006 which was over 4 months prior to Madeleine's disappearance on 3rd May 2007.  I even read a claim that it happened after Madeleine's abduction which is really crazy?

If we can get some sort of further clarification on this incident it would be helpful so that we can give the story the prominence it deserves.  One has to always remember that this could well have been another disappeared child but for the quick actions of her parents.  It only takes a minute!!
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 02:28:52 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Puffin

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2013, 04:02:37 PM »
That map is very interesting; note how most of the sights are close to the sea?  Perhaps one should be looking for boats - who is going to notice an extra boat in an area full of them, and on a coastline once as notorious for smugglers etc as the coat of the UK?  Plenty of small coves to lie up in and wait for the right time to move.  No worries about getting contraband of any nature through customs.  And the African coast is not that far away.  Just my opinion and personal thoughts, not a theory.  Puffin
Truth is the property of no individual but is the treasure of all men.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline Benice

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2013, 05:22:46 PM »
That map is very interesting; note how most of the sights are close to the sea?  Perhaps one should be looking for boats - who is going to notice an extra boat in an area full of them, and on a coastline once as notorious for smugglers etc as the coat of the UK?  Plenty of small coves to lie up in and wait for the right time to move.  No worries about getting contraband of any nature through customs.  And the African coast is not that far away.  Just my opinion and personal thoughts, not a theory.  Puffin

I think it's possible that Madeleine was taken away by boat.   Wasn't the man the Smith's saw heading in a direction which points to that possibility?    It could be that after taking Madeleine, the abductor hid in a nearby 'place' waiting for the 'OK' from the boat to take her to it.    That would account for the 'lost' 45 mins.

Do we know if a possible escape route by sea was investigated by the Pj?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 01:27:17 PM by John »
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Puffin

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2013, 05:32:03 PM »
That map is very interesting; note how most of the sights are close to the sea?  Perhaps one should be looking for boats - who is going to notice an extra boat in an area full of them, and on a coastline once as notorious for smugglers etc as the coat of the UK?  Plenty of small coves to lie up in and wait for the right time to move.  No worries about getting contraband of any nature through customs.  And the African coast is not that far away.  Just my opinion and personal thoughts, not a theory.  Puffin

I think it's possible that Madeleine was taken away by boat.   Wasn't the man the Smith's saw heading in a direction which points to that possibility?    It could be that after taking Madeleine, the abductor hid in a nearby 'place' waiting for the 'OK' from the boat to take her to it.    That would account for the 'lost' 45 mins.

Do we know if a possible escape route by sea was investigated by the Pj?
It's just as logical an idea as others put forward.  I don't know if the PJ ever investigated it.  If I was intending to perpetrate a crime such as kidnapping or drug smuggling then I would chose the sea every time.  As has been proven re the Somalian pirates, the ocean is far harder to patrol than the land mass.  Re the man the Smiths saw, I do believe he was headed towards the sea.
Truth is the property of no individual but is the treasure of all men.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline Carana

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2013, 05:47:40 PM »
I read Paulo Reis's blog entry on that... and I don't see any mention of a hoax, just that the Sun was being lazy in reporting an incident on December 5 which had already been reported in Diário de Notícias on May 25.

Leaving aside the Sun and piecing together the bits from DN:


Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007 : “Moroccan man threats” (Secondary headline from a main story about the McCann first TV interview)


Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007: “A 30 years old man, from Morocco, threatened to kidnap the three year old daughter of a woman who rents a coffee-shop at Fonte de Luzeiros, between Silves and São Bartolomeu de Messines.”

Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007 : “The mother told DN that the kidnap threat was made, last Tuesday, by the man “who nobody knows what he does, for a living”, after provoking disturbs at the coffee-shop Falcão, where he was, clearly drunk. 'I will kidnap your daughter', the man told to Lina Carreira who, at the time, was holding his daughter close to her.”


Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007 : “Lina Carreira filed a complaint with GNR from Silves, the next day, and was contacted yesterday by investigators from Polícia Judiciária, to whom she told what happened.”


Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007 : “Talking with local residents, DN found that the man in question is a street seller and a well known trouble maker.”




Offline Carana

Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2013, 05:56:32 PM »
> Sara Sofia Lopes dos Santos disappeared on 01.01.2009.

No details as to what happened. Odd.

ETA Seems to be a parental abduction.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 06:00:51 PM by Carana »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2013, 06:43:46 PM »
I read Paulo Reis's blog entry on that... and I don't see any mention of a hoax, just that the Sun was being lazy in reporting an incident on December 5 which had already been reported in Diário de Notícias on May 25.

Leaving aside the Sun and piecing together the bits from DN:


Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007 : “Moroccan man threats” (Secondary headline from a main story about the McCann first TV interview)


Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007: “A 30 years old man, from Morocco, threatened to kidnap the three year old daughter of a woman who rents a coffee-shop at Fonte de Luzeiros, between Silves and São Bartolomeu de Messines.”

Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007 : “The mother told DN that the kidnap threat was made, last Tuesday, by the man “who nobody knows what he does, for a living”, after provoking disturbs at the coffee-shop Falcão, where he was, clearly drunk. 'I will kidnap your daughter', the man told to Lina Carreira who, at the time, was holding his daughter close to her.”


Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007 : “Lina Carreira filed a complaint with GNR from Silves, the next day, and was contacted yesterday by investigators from Polícia Judiciária, to whom she told what happened.”


Diário de Notícias, May 25, 2007 : “Talking with local residents, DN found that the man in question is a street seller and a well known trouble maker.”
Ach so ! Thanks Carana ! A poor drunk chap.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Map showing distribution of Portugal's missing children.
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2013, 09:15:43 PM »
http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/carolina-santos-hoax-hoax-kate-mccann.html

Metodo 3:Carolina Santos hoax: A hoax Kate McCann chose not to write about in her book.
The Sun for December 5, where two so-called journalists named Neil Syson and Veronica Lorraine wrote a story under the heading of "Hunt for copy-cat snatcher" saying that;
Blue-eyed blonde Carolina Santos, three, was snatched by a Moroccan-looking man four months before Maddie vanished ... Carolina's parents Abel and Lina offered to help cops two weeks after Maddie, four, disappeared but were never questioned. Now they will meet private detectives from Spanish agency Metodo 3, hired by Gerry and Kate McCann, both 39.
You actually have to read on to discover that actually the child wasn't snatched at all, as the parents of the child supposedly intervened before the worst happened, but still our dear friends Metodo 3 are quoted as having said "This could be relevant."

What this story is telling you is how crap the Portuguese police are for not following up this lead, and how busy Metodo 3 are being in tracking down this overlooked piece of evidence.

But hey, look at this piece from the Diário de Notícias of May 25, 2007 (that's six months previously), telling us that;(link can be found through search archives)
A 30 years old man, from Morocco, threatened to kidnap the three year old daughter of a woman who rents a coffee-shop at Fonte de Luzeiros, between Silves and São Bartolomes de Messines." and that the "kidnap threat was made, last Tuesday".
See how there was no actual attempt at kidnapping Carolina Santos, only a threat, and that it all happened after Madeleine was snatched, not four months beforehand.

But, wait there's more. The Diário de Notícias goes on to say that the woman "filed a complaint with GNR from Silves the next day, and was contacted yesterday by investigators from Polícia Judiciária, to whom she told what happened." The newspaper then said that after "Talking with local residents" they "found that the man in question is a street seller and a well known trouble maker."

So far from "never being questioned" the family was questioned by both the GNR and the PJ, and what's more everyone knows who was responsible for causing the trouble in the first place.

This is just a prime example of the sort of crap we have to put up with in the British press thanks to "Team McCann".

There's nothing here for the Metodo boys and girls to "investigate", just a drunk Moroccan street vendor who got into argument with a local cafe owner, and has no connection whatever to the Madeleine case.

Metodo 3  function was to make themselves available to the British press about how the latest PR stunt might be "crucial", or "relevant".
-------------------------------------------------

I can find no other source apart from the Sun and Scottish Herald and refs to Metodo 3 for the Xmas 2006 attempted abduction

------------------------------------------------
Herald Scotland

Bid made to snatch Madeleine look-alike last year

MARTIN WILLIAMS
May 25 2007

Police in Portugal have been told of an attempt to snatch a girl similar to Madeleine McCann just half an hour from Praia da Luz, it emerged last night.

Three-year-old Carolina Santos, who is blonde with blue eyes, was found being led away from the family cafe near the town of Silves by a man last year.

Her parents described yesterday how they had left Carolina playing at the front of the roadside cafe in Fonte de Louseiron, a village around half an hour from Praia da Luz on Christmas Day.

"We were busy working in the kitchen and came out to find out she wasn't there," Abel Santos, 40, said.

"I searched around for her and saw her some way away on the road with a man I took to be Moroccan. We started towards them shouting and Carolina stopped and turned towards us. He disappeared around the bend."

His wife Lina, 28, added: "It was very strange because Carolina is usually very shy and doesn't go with strangers. When I asked her what happened she said he told her that he had another little girl for her to play with. There was no other girl. I was so scared.

"If we hadn't come out at that moment I don't know what would have happened."

They reported the incident to police at the time but say they were told they could not make a formal complaint as no crime had been committed.

A spokesman for the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) said attempted abduction was a crime in Portugal and believed the Guarda Nacional Republicana (GNR) - a separate force - would have filed a report.

Three days ago the couple contacted police again after a Moroccan man threatened to take their daughter during a row at the cafe.

Police said yesterday that they were investigating these incidents, but were not linking them to Madeleine's disappearance, because there were too many dissimilarities.

Meanwhile, signs of frustration began to emerge yesterday at the pace of progress in the hunt for Madeleine.

A source close to the McCann family said that while Madeleine's parents were happy with the "overall thrust" of the investigation, they felt frustrated that concerns they had were not being addressed quickly enough.

Madeleine was abducted on May 3 and despite a huge campaign to make her image known across Europe there has been no news of her whereabouts for three weeks.

As the McCanns prepare to embark on a series of journeys in Europe to boost Madeleine's profile, family members added that the couple were as determined as ever.

The source added: "At every stage throughout this they have been feeding their own questions and concerns back to the investigating authorities through British police and the Portuguese authorities.

"While they remain content with the overall thrust of the investigation they hope their questions and concerns are addressed more quickly."

Portugal's unusual "secret of justice" laws prevent the police releasing information about the investigation publicly and also curtail what they can say even to the family concerned.

The source said: "They fully comprehend the restrictions that the Portuguese legal system places on everyone involved but naturally, as parents who want their little girl back, some of the delays that are occurring are frustrating."

Responding to claims of growing frustration a spokesman for the couple in Portugal said: "At every stage along the way Gerry and Kate have worked with the British and Portuguese police to do everything they can to improve the investigation in ways of taking it forward.

"Gerry and Kate ask on a regular basis what they can do to help the investigation.

"Naturally when it appears that things are moving slowly it can be frustrating - the only thing that would really make them happy is Madeleine's safe return and every parent will understand that."
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 09:20:13 PM by Redblossom »