Author Topic: Child abduction UK  (Read 8071 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2013, 03:28:07 PM »
Name any recent ones Carana?

Not all of these cases hit the headlines. Until relatively recently, such news tended to be in the regional or national media.

Madeleine's case seems to be one of the first ones in recent years that has hit the press even in the furthermost corners of the world. 

- UK - Sarah Payne (2000); the girl in the bathtub (2005); a young boy held by a man people assumed was his father; a 10-year-old boy, luckily found quickly (2011). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-15736607

- Ylenia (Switzerland). Opportunistic predator.

- Mari Luz (Spain). In this case, it seems the abductor had moved to the vicinity, but was avoided by the family due to previous convictions as having abused his own children whilst living elsewhere.

- A young boy (France), who was at an open-air market with his dad, was snatched and abused - thankfully eventually found alive.

- Another recent one about a little girl who was eventually dumped outside a petrol station (not sure which country). 

There are also cases in a grey area. A young teenager seemingly willingly went off with some guy who'd befriended her at a camping ground, but was then sequestrated and raped until the police eventually located her.

I could find quite a few others, but it depends what you call "recent". Quite a few from the 90s seem to have hit the international press in recent years, e.g., Simon Jones (UK), Tara Burke (US), Natascha Kampusch (Austria), Stephanie (Germany). There are potentially lots of others but, in some countries, the press are more respectful of privacy once a child has been found alive.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2013, 03:28:44 PM »
I asked for recent examples but obviously there aren't any.   A quick look at the Missing Persons Charity website indicates that most missing children are aged between 14 and 18.

There are plenty of examples of abduction of under 10's by family or friend such as Thila Rojas, Martin & Dominika Gajdar, April Jones, Shannon Matthews, Aamina Khan, Emanuel and Felipe Diaz etc

The only child missing from my list but still listed by Missing Children in the UK is Madeleine McCann.  It would be disingenuous of me to include her as a family or friend abduction after all at this stage.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2013, 03:31:13 PM »
Sorry but that survey is so out of step as to be laughable.  They even include reports of attempted abduction of teenagers.  Better luck next time Carana.  @)(++(*

An attempted abduction is only one that - thankfully - did not succeed.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2013, 03:31:26 PM »
Not all of these cases hit the headlines. Until relatively recently, such news tended to be in the regional or national media.

Madeleine's case seems to be one of the first ones in recent years that has hit the press even in the furthermost corners of the world. 

- UK - Sarah Payne (2000); the girl in the bathtub (2005); a young boy held by a man people assumed was his father; a 10-year-old boy, luckily found quickly (2011). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-15736607

- Ylenia (Switzerland). Opportunistic predator.

- Mari Luz (Spain). In this case, it seems the abductor had moved to the vicinity, but was avoided by the family due to previous convictions as having abused his own children whilst living elsewhere.

- A young boy (France), who was at an open-air market with his dad, was snatched and abused - thankfully eventually found alive.

- Another recent one about a little girl who was eventually dumped outside a petrol station (not sure which country). 

There are also cases in a grey area. A young teenager seemingly willingly went off with some guy who'd befriended her at a camping ground, but was then sequestrated and raped until the police eventually located her.

I could find quite a few others, but it depends what you call "recent". Quite a few from the 90s seem to have hit the international press in recent years, e.g., Simon Jones (UK), Tara Burke (US), Natascha Kampusch (Austria), Stephanie (Germany). There are potentially lots of others but, in some countries, the press are more respectful of privacy once a child has been found alive.

You started the thread and now when you have lost the argument you revert to UK plus mostly non UK cases?   Says it all.  @)(++(*
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2013, 03:32:50 PM »
You started the thread and now when you have lost the argument you revert to UK plus mostly non UK cases?   Says it all.  @)(++(*

Madeleine didn't disappear in the UK.

I'm not aware of similar published studies in other countries.

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2013, 03:45:11 PM »
I've changed the title to Europe, if that makes you happier. I originally wrote UK because of the study.

I find the Ylenia case relevant to the broader discussion: a 5-year-old kidnapped from Appenzell in Switzerland by an opportunistic predator who lived in Spain. If the swimming-pool attendant hadn't seen her get into his car, her mother would still be under a cloud of suspicion.

Offline sadie

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2013, 04:01:04 PM »
I've changed the title to Europe, if that makes you happier. I originally wrote UK because of the study.

I find the Ylenia case relevant to the broader discussion: a 5-year-old kidnapped from Appenzell in Switzerland by an opportunistic predator who lived in Spain. If the swimming-pool attendant hadn't seen her get into his car, her mother would still be under a cloud of suspicion.
Aw that is so like the Madeleine case.  But in that case seems they took notice orf the witness.

Not like Amaral who ignored all the british wotnesses and most importantly the Golden witness Jane Tanner.
If you want to know the real facts read :  http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page

Hitler is credited with saying "Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth.
= "Propaganda personified."

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2013, 04:14:23 PM »
Aw that is so like the Madeleine case.  But in that case seems they took notice orf the witness.

Not like Amaral who ignored all the british wotnesses and most importantly the Golden witness Jane Tanner.


The Golden witness whose credibility Gerry tried to undermine later in Madeleine Was Here, that Golden witness ?
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent themurderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline sadie

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2013, 04:20:17 PM »

The Golden witness whose credibility Gerry tried to undermine later in Madeleine Was Here, that Golden witness ?

He made a mistake, like any of us may have made when in such a battered state.  His memory failed.

Dont forget thta he had nothing to gain by saying that it was the other side of the road.  Nothing.
If you want to know the real facts read :  http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page

Hitler is credited with saying "Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth.
= "Propaganda personified."

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2013, 04:37:42 PM »
He made a mistake, like any of us may have made when in such a battered state.  His memory failed.

Dont forget thta he had nothing to gain by saying that it was the other side of the road.  Nothing.

He knew that it was almost impossible for Tanner to pass him and Jez and not be seen and making the sighting possible by putting himself on the other side of the road is exactly what he had to gain.

As to him making a mistake, then why not admit that he any be wrong instead of undermining the credibility of his main witness ?
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent themurderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2013, 04:39:39 PM »
Aw that is so like the Madeleine case.  But in that case seems they took notice orf the witness.

Not like Amaral who ignored all the british wotnesses and most importantly the Golden witness Jane Tanner.

It was a very strange case, Sadie.

He buried her in the woods, then shot himself in the head elsewhere after shooting someone else. The only link was that clothes were found near him with her DNA, and her DNA was in the car.

Despite a massive police search, they couldn't find her body.

In the end, it was a student who spent his weekends doing his own searches who eventually found her remains. She'd been buried 1-2 feet and wild animals had dug her up.

There is some correspondence in the files about it.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OTHER_DISAPPEARANCES.htm

It's not entirely clear what follow up there was at the time. The Met went to meet with the Swiss police about it not that long ago.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2013, 06:33:12 PM »
Ylenia Lenhard wasn't abducted when sleeping in her bed but when walking in a street. What killed her was a solvent, (mis)used for its euphoric effects, to induce sleepiness.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2013, 06:51:41 PM »
Ylenia Lenhard wasn't abducted when sleeping in her bed but when walking in a street. What killed her was a solvent, (mis)used for its euphoric effects, to induce sleepiness.

Which demonstrates how hard it would have been for an abductor to have sedated the McCann children, safely, in the time available.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent themurderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Lace

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2013, 07:09:03 PM »
Which demonstrates how hard it would have been for an abductor to have sedated the McCann children, safely, in the time available.

Not if he had done it before.

Offline Lace

Re: Child abduction UK
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2013, 07:09:39 PM »
There was a little girl taken from a tent in her garden wasn't there?   By a stranger.