Author Topic: How the murders were carried out.  (Read 15013 times)

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Offline Tim Invictus

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2012, 09:23:37 AM »
I am waiting for my starlings and swallows too but remember Shona PUGS one swallow does not a summer make! Isn't it nice to not live in a dingy council dump where the only wildlife is just one bitter old crow!

Simon I too don't believe that Nevill was going for the telephone as I too am sure he wouldn't have left Jeremy with his family upstairs ..... I have always thought he chased Jeremy downstairs when JB ran out of bullets. Remember there was also a panic alarm downstairs and Nevill would have pressed that rather than try and make a phonecall .... he never got the chance to do either!




Dolly Peel

  • Guest
Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2012, 10:25:42 AM »
I can confirm that a couple of old Blue Tits have been spotted in Brentwood. They look like they are about to drop!

Offline Claudia

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2012, 01:14:43 PM »
I am waiting for my starlings and swallows too but remember Shona PUGS one swallow does not a summer make! Isn't it nice to not live in a dingy council dump where the only wildlife is just one bitter old crow!

Simon I too don't believe that Nevill was going for the telephone as I too am sure he wouldn't have left Jeremy with his family upstairs ..... I have always thought he chased Jeremy downstairs when JB ran out of bullets. Remember there was also a panic alarm downstairs and Nevill would have pressed that rather than try and make a phonecall .... he never got the chance to do either!

That is most defs a possibility since Jeremy Bamber would have been afraid of Ralph even with three or four bullets in him.  There was an empty shell found halfway down the stairs which could mean someone shooting up the stairs at Ralph as he came out of the bedroom.

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2012, 01:58:51 PM »
I can confirm that a couple of old Blue Tits have been spotted in Brentwood. They look like they are about to drop!

 @)(++(* @)(++(*

Belton and Preece have been stuffed by Hartley! That's gotta hurt!
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2012, 02:42:37 PM »
I can confirm that a couple of old Blue Tits have been spotted in Brentwood. They look like they are about to drop!

 @)(++(* @)(++(*

Belton and Preece have been stuffed by Hartley! That's gotta hurt!

and now Hartley's saying "living victims." Now that's going to wind them all up!
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Myster

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2012, 05:45:16 PM »


For those who missed a 'cheep' read over Easter.  8)-)))

You'd have thought they'd knock the 40p.off.


The postage is a bit too dear for me though.  8(8-))

It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

simong

  • Guest
Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2012, 11:13:26 PM »
Some general thoughts that have come into my mind about the events that happened that night at WHF. Nevill is shot 4 times upstairs which you would assume would knock him to the ground. Getting to his feet and then getting to the kitchen is going to take some time and effort for someone who has four gunshot wounds. Any of Nevill's next four bullet wounds are fatal so we can presume that he wasn't shot again before the struggle in the kitchen. Has anyone considered that the killer did not know where the extra ammunition was for the rifle? Wouldn't Sheila or Jeremy know where the ammunition was and have at least loaded a few rounds before Nevill got downstairs?

Also, and i apologise in advance for going on and on about the twins being shot last, but doesn't the fact that the killer seems to head downstairs for ammunition add credence to the twins being shot last. It would seem odd to shoot the twins, go downstairs, reload, come back up again, shoot June and Nevill, go downstairs again, reload. That is, if you believe the killer went downstairs to reload. I would be interested to hear anyones thoughts on how and why Nevill got downstairs.

Apologies once again for being convoluted, hope you understand the points i am trying to make. I really believe, the killer thought this could all be done with ten rounds.


Offline John

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2012, 03:55:40 PM »
I had to review these details again....   8)><(    but I found out something quite interesting as you do!

Neville was shot 8 times in total. He was shot 4 times in the bedroom and once as he attempted to get downstairs, only one bullet exited his body and was found just inside the bedroom door. He was hit by the three remaining shots as he expired in the kitchen.

June was shot 7 times in total, 3 of the bullets exited and were found on the bed on or near the pillows.

The thing is though, if Nevill had been shot 5 times before he even got downstairs to the kitchen he must have been in an awful state.  Going by the pathologists report, the wounds most likely to have been sustained initially are those to the lip, jaw, left shoulder and left elbow and one more which had to be one of the other 4 head shots.

My question....how did that man ever survive those first initial woundings?  He was a hero!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 03:57:44 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

simong

  • Guest
Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2012, 07:11:34 PM »
Thanks for the reply John. There is no possible way Nevill would be moving anywhere with a 5th bullet wound upstairs. Anyone of his 4 headshots would have killed him instantly. The only explanation i have for the shell case on the stairs, is that it was carried up, from the kitchen on a policeman's shoe. Even that sounds a little far fetched to me. Either the shell casing map is inaccurate or one was moved from the kitchen. The shots to Nevill's head are in pairs in my opinion, not a singular and then three others. The last four shots were in the kitchen, have to be, otherwise someone is dragging him down the stairs, propping him up in a chair and shooting him again 3 times.

You make a good point about Nevill. His fight for life is remarkable and is another extremely sad factor in this massacre. The injuries he suffered from the beating with the rifle are tremendous and you have to read the pathology report several times to ascertain just how bad it was. The linear bruising to his forearms, indicate that Nevill was always on the defensive and phrasing this episode as a struggle is grossly inaccurate, in my opinion. Nevill struggled to survive and was absolutely battered.

A few questions for you John, Did Nevill end up in the chair by coincidence or was he put in the chair? If he was put in the chair, Why?

 

amazon

  • Guest
Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2012, 07:35:42 PM »
Whichever side of the fence you are on, can anyone imagine being assaulted in such a brutal manner by ones own child? and in the knowledge that other members of ones immediately family have been or are about to suffer a similar fate?   8(8-))  As I personally think that it is beyond the realms of all possibilities that it was Sheila who committed the murders, how much worse would that feel if it was your only son, who you had given every opportunity of advantage in life and brought up in a christian household with values.... and you had witnessed him having wiped out two little boys and having shot your wife/his mother in her bed.

It's really too awful to think about Ralph's emotional suffering, albeit that it would have been limited in time. I pray he didn't witness June's shot between the eyes.

I won't even go there with the squeaky clean telephone.....


Offline John

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2012, 07:52:32 PM »
Thanks for the reply John. There is no possible way Nevill would be moving anywhere with a 5th bullet wound upstairs. Anyone of his 4 headshots would have killed him instantly. The only explanation i have for the shell case on the stairs, is that it was carried up, from the kitchen on a policeman's shoe. Even that sounds a little far fetched to me. Either the shell casing map is inaccurate or one was moved from the kitchen. The shots to Nevill's head are in pairs in my opinion, not a singular and then three others. The last four shots were in the kitchen, have to be, otherwise someone is dragging him down the stairs, propping him up in a chair and shooting him again 3 times.

You make a good point about Nevill. His fight for life is remarkable and is another extremely sad factor in this massacre. The injuries he suffered from the beating with the rifle are tremendous and you have to read the pathology report several times to ascertain just how bad it was. The linear bruising to his forearms, indicate that Nevill was always on the defensive and phrasing this episode as a struggle is grossly inaccurate, in my opinion. Nevill struggled to survive and was absolutely battered.

A few questions for you John, Did Nevill end up in the chair by coincidence or was he put in the chair? If he was put in the chair, Why?


That is a very good suggestion Simong and one which certainly fits the known events.  That bullet was probably trod on in the kitchen and taken part way up the stairs.  Nevill must have been conscious in the kitchen otherwise there wouldn't have been the almighty struggle which the pathologist suggested took place.

I don't think we will ever know the circumstances of how he got into the chair but I suspect he collapsed in it.  I can't see any gunman bothering to pick him up and put him in a chair.  The more we hear about the struggle the more I am convinced that Sheila was not capable of such a prolonged and brutal assault..
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2012, 08:07:44 PM »
Whichever side of the fence you are on, can anyone imagine being assaulted in such a brutal manner by ones own child? and in the knowledge that other members of ones immediately family have been or are about to suffer a similar fate?   8(8-))  As I personally think that it is beyond the realms of all possibilities that it was Sheila who committed the murders, how much worse would that feel if it was your only son, who you had given every opportunity of advantage in life and brought up in a Christian household with values.... and you had witnessed him having wiped out two little boys and having shot your wife/his mother in her bed.

It's really too awful to think about Ralph's emotional suffering, albeit that it would have been limited in time. I pray he didn't witness June's shot between the eyes.

I won't even go there with the squeaky clean telephone.....

I will deal with your last point first if I may Amazon.  The squeaky clean telephone was indeed a give away.  If Nevill had used the phone he would have replaced the handset.  If he was under threat of some kind he would have told Jeremy in those very first words that he was alleged to have uttered.

Jeremy says the call was ended.  In order to do that someone would have to have replaced the handset or put their finger on the gravity switch plungers (sorry about the technical term).  So who does Jeremy suggest we blame for that?  Nevill would never in a million years have allowed Sheila to interrupt his call no matter how many guns she may have had.   This for me therefore was a sham, a poorly thought-out invention.

Nevill was extremely cautious of Jeremy but even he had no idea what he was planning for months.  Jeremy played the game in the months prior to the murders extremely well.  He endeared himself to Mrs Wilson and outwardly played the obedient son.  He was not content on the farm however and this was most obvious to Nevill who had to work with him on a daily basis.  As a farmers son I know the bonds that you normally make with your fellow workers but this just didn't seem to happen with Jeremy.  Some on TT blame it on his upbringing, a deep seated resentment maybe at being given up as a child.  Jealousy of his other two siblings who unlike him were wanted?

« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 08:09:47 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline goatboy

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2012, 08:19:23 PM »
I agree-I'm sure Sheila could have fired the rifle and hit the target enough times to seriously hurt someone with ten bullets. But I don't think for a moment she would have been capable of hitting the target so many times and reloading at least twice without damaging her nails or showing evidence of gun oil (or her victims' blood) on her skin and clothes. And that's before you add an almighty struggle with Neville to the mix. The shootings have the hallmarks of having been executed by someone professional who knew what they were doing, not someone in a violent rage. Regardless of what "evidence" the Bamber is innocent camp come up with they simply do not have any logical or coherent arguments about how Sheila could have done all of this.

Offline Tim Invictus

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2012, 11:03:34 PM »
Whichever side of the fence you are on, can anyone imagine being assaulted in such a brutal manner by ones own child? and in the knowledge that other members of ones immediately family have been or are about to suffer a similar fate?   8(8-))  As I personally think that it is beyond the realms of all possibilities that it was Sheila who committed the murders, how much worse would that feel if it was your only son, who you had given every opportunity of advantage in life and brought up in a christian household with values.... and you had witnessed him having wiped out two little boys and having shot your wife/his mother in her bed.

It's really too awful to think about Ralph's emotional suffering, albeit that it would have been limited in time. I pray he didn't witness June's shot between the eyes.

I won't even go there with the squeaky clean telephone.....

Well said Ami .... that's the real tragedy isn't it. What Nevill went through in that life or death struggle with his son is nothing but evil. I so wish I could have been there to batter Bamber beyond recognition as I am sure every decent member of this forum would too!

The same man Nevill that that c*** Tesco accuses of fathering the twins. That same grandmother June who that c*** Tesco accuses of doing some of the murders. And the legions of insults and lies made about Sheila are unrepeatable!

Come on CCRC do as David Boutflour another victim says .... it's time for an end to all this!


Offline Harvey

Re: How the murders were carried out.
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2012, 11:16:19 PM »
Whichever side of the fence you are on, can anyone imagine being assaulted in such a brutal manner by ones own child? and in the knowledge that other members of ones immediately family have been or are about to suffer a similar fate?   8(8-))  As I personally think that it is beyond the realms of all possibilities that it was Sheila who committed the murders, how much worse would that feel if it was your only son, who you had given every opportunity of advantage in life and brought up in a christian household with values.... and you had witnessed him having wiped out two little boys and having shot your wife/his mother in her bed.

It's really too awful to think about Ralph's emotional suffering, albeit that it would have been limited in time. I pray he didn't witness June's shot between the eyes.

I won't even go there with the squeaky clean telephone.....

Well said Ami .... that's the real tragedy isn't it. What Nevill went through in that life or death struggle with his son is nothing but evil. I so wish I could have been there to batter Bamber beyond recognition as I am sure every decent member of this forum would too!

The same man Nevill that that c*** Tesco accuses of fathering the twins. That same grandmother June who that c*** Tesco accuses of doing some of the murders. And the legions of insults and lies made about Sheila are unrepeatable!

Come on CCRC do as David Boutflour another victim says .... it's time for an end to all this!

Not until after the 23rd apparently.