Author Topic: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!  (Read 78699 times)

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Offline Luz

The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« on: October 31, 2013, 09:18:19 AM »
This has been amply discussed, and even though I don't want to disrupt the thread, I hope you understand - I trust you are intelligent enough for that.

If you prefer to believe a convicted child murderer, whose full confession to the PJ was produced in the 13th October in the presence of her lawyer, and weeks later accused she doesn't know how many or who they were, PJs to having tortured her to obtain a confession, on the 14th of October. Only after Aragão Correia imposed himself to substitute her previous lawyer, by visiting her in Odemira prison, did some names rise. Those alleged aggressors were not even in the building at the time she (or Aragão Correia) alleged she was beaten. That's the reason why they were acquitted. The only two persons that were convicted were the ones that were present inside the PJ, and even though a crime could not be proven they were condemned for not reporting it.
In February 2013, it was proven that Leonor had lied about being tortured inside the PJ, and sentenced for having committed perjury.

Leonor Correia was indeed spanked, but inside the prison of Odemira - but as that was his first lawyer (João Grade) thesis, Aragão Correia went to the prison, and even writing the letter from Leonor, made her dismiss her lawyer and accept him instead, and changed it to the PJ, because his mission was to "get Amaral", as he confessed at the end of the first Court trial, to the journalists.

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« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 09:37:20 PM by John »

Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 09:30:59 AM »

This has been amply discussed, and even though I don't want to disrupt the thread, I hope you understand - I trust you are intelligent enough for that.

If you prefer to believe a convicted child murderer, whose full confession to the PJ was produced in the 13th October in the presence of her lawyer, and weeks later accused she doesn't know how many or who they were, PJs to having tortured her to obtain a confession. Only after Aragão Correia imposed himself to substitute her previous lawyer, by visiting her in Odemira prison, did some names rise. Those alleged aggressors were not even in the building at the time she (or Aragão Correia) alleged she was beaten. The reason why they were acquitted. The only two persons that were convicted were the ones that were present inside the PJ, and even though a crime could not be proven they were condemned for not reporting it.
In February 2013, it was proven that Leonor had lied about being tortured inside the PJ, and sentenced for having committed perjury.

Leonor Correia was indeed spanked, but inside the prison of Odemira - but as that was his first lawyer (João Grade) thesis, Aragão Correia went to the prison, and even writing the letter from Leonor, made her dismiss her lawyer and accept him instead, and changed it to the PJ, because his mission was to "get Amaral", as he confessed at the end of the first Court trial, to the journalists.

Well all you have to do Luz is show us the official statements quashing Amaral's conviction - and also maybe explain why Amaral himself has made no such claim. 

IIRC LC was found guilty of mis-identifying her torturers.  The fact that torture took place, as established in a court of law, was never in question - only the correct identification of the torturers - which has still to be established.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Luz

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 09:44:28 AM »
Well all you have to do Luz is show us the official statements quashing Amaral's conviction - and also maybe explain why Amaral himself has made no such claim. 

IIRC LC was found guilty of mis-identifying her torturers.  The fact that torture took place, as established in a court of law, was never in question - only the correct identification of the torturers - which has still to be established.


Inside the jail house. The medical experts identified that her bruises had been produced in different times and later than the date she alleged.

What does it have to do with the PJ?!

Sometimes I wonder if you people are lacking reasoning skills (no insult intended) or just on a mission like good old Aragão.

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 09:46:06 AM »

This has been amply discussed, and even though I don't want to disrupt the thread, I hope you understand - I trust you are intelligent enough for that.

If you prefer to believe a convicted child murderer, whose full confession to the PJ was produced in the 13th October in the presence of her lawyer, and weeks later accused she doesn't know how many or who they were, PJs to having tortured her to obtain a confession, on the 14th of October. Only after Aragão Correia imposed himself to substitute her previous lawyer, by visiting her in Odemira prison, did some names rise. Those alleged aggressors were not even in the building at the time she (or Aragão Correia) alleged she was beaten. That's the reason why they were acquitted. The only two persons that were convicted were the ones that were present inside the PJ, and even though a crime could not be proven they were condemned for not reporting it.
In February 2013, it was proven that Leonor had lied about being tortured inside the PJ, and sentenced for having committed perjury.

Leonor Correia was indeed spanked, but inside the prison of Odemira - but as that was his first lawyer (João Grade) thesis, Aragão Correia went to the prison, and even writing the letter from Leonor, made her dismiss her lawyer and accept him instead, and changed it to the PJ, because his mission was to "get Amaral", as he confessed at the end of the first Court trial, to the journalists.

Leonor Cipriano was not beaten in prison, as was pointed out by The Governor, whose word I choose to believe against yours.
Neither did she confess to murdering her daughter before she was beaten.  Otherwise there would have been no need to beat her.
A Portuguese Court did rule that she was beaten while in PJ Custody.

Or are you saying that she confessed and then The PJ beat her for a bit of fun?

Her Lawyer was certainly not present when she was beaten.  And she was in PJ custody for more than 24 hours.  Having a bit of a chat, were they?
Your persistent denial of these facts just does not make sense.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 09:51:25 AM »
Leonor Cipriano was not beaten in prison, as was pointed out by The Governor, whose word I choose to believe against yours.
Neither did she confess to murdering her daughter before she was beaten.  Otherwise there would have been no need to beat her.
A Portuguese Court did rule that she was beaten while in PJ Custody.

Or are you saying that she confessed and then The PJ beat her for a bit of fun?

Her Lawyer was certainly not present when she was beaten.  And she was in PJ custody for more than 24 hours.  Having a bit of a chat, were they?
Your persistent denial of these facts just does not make sense.

Your defence of an incestuous monster does not make sense.

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 09:55:39 AM »

Because Leonor miss identified her torturers doesn't mean it didn't happen.

It did happen.  And Leonor Cipriano wasn't the only one.  It was common practice when The PJ couldn't get a confession.

Offline stephen25000

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 09:56:01 AM »
Ask Luz.  I was just replying to her post.

PS.  Do you actually read the posts of other people?

Quite frankly I don't have the time to read every post.

I do have other things to do in my life.
The McCanns were solely responsible for their childcare arrangements and there is no one else to blame.

S and S, two more amateurs making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 09:57:00 AM »
Your defence of an incestuous monster does not make sense.

The Incest Claim was thrown out by The Court.  You don't know much, do you.

Offline stephen25000

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 09:57:09 AM »
It did happen.  And Leonor Cipriano wasn't the only one.  It was common practice when The PJ couldn't get a confession.

Can you prove the PJ tortured her ?
The McCanns were solely responsible for their childcare arrangements and there is no one else to blame.

S and S, two more amateurs making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.

Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 09:58:20 AM »

Inside the jail house. The medical experts identified that her bruises had been produced in different times and later than the date she alleged.

What does it have to do with the PJ?!

Sometimes I wonder if you people are lacking reasoning skills (no insult intended) or just on a mission like good old Aragão.

If Amaral has been exonerated and his conviction quashed - then there will be documentary evidence to prove that.  I've never seen it.        If Amaral no longer has a criminal conviction - why isn't he shouting it from the rooftops?  Surely having his 'honour' restored is not something he of all people would want to keep quiet.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 09:59:03 AM »
Can you prove the PJ tortured her ?

The Court found that she was.  How much proof do you need?

lizzibif.

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 10:02:07 AM »
Can you prove the PJ tortured her ?

Can you prove they didn't ?

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 10:21:27 AM »
I find that incomprehensible.  The court did not believe the motive for the crime as claimed by the PJ  = and yet she was still found guilty??

Ah but, that was in the days when The PJ Ruled, okay.  They won't even try to get away with that again.

So some good has come from this.

Offline Jazzy

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2013, 04:29:59 PM »
Why do you keep peddling this nonsense  ?

Joana Cipriano was not  'almost certainly' taken from  Figueira 

She was  murdered  by her mother and uncle who are currently  serving long prison sentences

You may believe that the convictions were unsafe,  but you most certainly do not have evidence that  proves,  or even suggests,  that the little girl was  'abducted'

Yet you persistantly present it as  'fact'  ...  why do you do that  ?

For pretty much the same reasons you do.

Carolina is a fact.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 04:37:57 PM »
For pretty much the same reasons you do.

Carolina is a fact.

And your evidence for this fact is.....???