Author Topic: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment  (Read 8490 times)

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Offline John

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2013, 08:30:09 PM »
Here is yet another piece of the puzzle.  Correio da Manhã contacted Leonor directly at 00.30am on the 21st September and accused her of her daughters disappearance to which she replied..."For God's sake, I did not do that to a my daughter".

So she was at home on Tues 21st September.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/mae-nega-e-persiste-na-tese-de-rapto

« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 09:08:40 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2013, 08:40:17 PM »
Here is yet another piece of the puzzle.  Correio da Manhã contacted Leonor directly at 12.30pm on the 21st September and accused her of her daughters disappearance to which she replied..."For God's sake, I did not do that to a my daughter".

So she was at home on the 21st September.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/mae-nega-e-persiste-na-tese-de-rapto

MÃE NEGA E PERSISTE NA TESE DE RAPTO

“Por amor de Deus, não fazia isso a uma filha minha”, foi a reacção de Leonor Cipriano, a mãe da menina desaparecida no dia 12, quando contactada telefonicamente pelo CM, pouco depois das 00h30 de hoje.

    21 de Setembro 2004, 01h37
 

Por:José Carlos Eusébio, Portimão


In your opinion, at what time and on which date did this journo ring her?

Offline John

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2013, 08:58:20 PM »
Sorry, that should be 00.30hrs.

Here is another snippet from Tuesday 21 September.

Despite these developments , Leonor Cipriano has not been arrested and last night she was seen in Figueira, where she resides.

Apesar destes desenvolvimentos, Leonor Cipriano não terá sido detida e, ontem à noite, foi vista em Figueira, onde reside.



http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/joana-vendida-para-a-alemanha

« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 09:00:16 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2013, 09:13:40 PM »
So we know she was home on the morning of Thursday 23rd September but was later that day arrested and taken by the PJ to Faro.



From a report dated Fri 24 September.

After spending Wednesday under the authority of the inspectors, Leonor eventually return home that night, while in the custody of a police officer who slept in a parked car on her doorstep. Allegedly under police protection to avoid being the target of popular fury, already suspected of the involvement in the disappearance of her daughter, the woman was yesterday again taken to the PJ in Faro, which turned out to be the end. Without this confession and brother arrested yesterday morning after trying to escape when he felt the police siege tighten, PJ is now trying to find the corpse of Joana, they envisage new searches today around the village where family lived for about a year.

Depois de passar a quarta-feira sob a alçada dos inspectores, Leonor acabaria por voltar a casa nessa noite, embora sob a custódia de numa agente policial que dormiu uma viatura estacionada à sua porta. Alegadamente sob protecção policial para evitar ser alvo da fúria dos populares, face ao seu já suspeito envolvimento no desaparecimento da filha, a mulher foi ontem novamente conduzida à PJ de Faro, que acabou por detê-la. Sem uma confissão desta e do irmão, detido ontem de madrugada depois de ter tentado evadir-se quando sentiu apertar-se o cerco policial, a PJ tenta agora localizar o cadáver de Joana, estando previstas para hoje novas buscas nos arredores da aldeia onde a família reside há cerca de um ano.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/provas-deixadas-no-local-do-crime
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 09:31:44 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2013, 09:18:14 PM »
Thank you, thats what I read from the other article......dated 25th, talked about court on 24th and how previous to the court dayhad been in custody.....

Eta meant the article in the OP
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 09:20:46 PM by Redblossom »

Offline Anna

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2013, 12:54:06 PM »
Thank you, thats what I read from the other article......dated 25th, talked about court on 24th and how previous to the court dayhad been in custody.....

Eta meant the article in the OP

This is how I see it
20th practically the whole day at PJ while house search. 21st spoken to CM by phone at 12.30 am then she  went to PJ . 22nd with PJ except for about 1.6 hours for home search then back and kept for safety/security 23rd time? arrested 24th early morning in court



http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/judiciaria-suspeita-de-alta-violencia
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline John

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2013, 06:36:32 PM »
I am pleased to say that I have at last identified the Cipriano former home and the route which little Joana had to take to Celia's Cafe to get the shopping.  I have also identified the Multisport where the fair took place.  I will start a new thread shortly with all the pictures.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 06:43:29 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Anna

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2013, 07:00:14 PM »
I am pleased to say that I have at last identified the Cipriano former home and the route which little Joana had to take to Celia's Cafe to get the shopping.  I have also identified the Multisport where the fair took place.  I will start a new thread shortly with all the pictures.

That's great John. I can't wait to see them. Did you manage to work out where the church is, as it was on her way home from Celia caf'e
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2013, 11:29:53 AM »
This is how I see it
20th practically the whole day at PJ while house search. 21st spoken to CM by phone at 12.30 am then she  went to PJ . 22nd with PJ except for about 1.6 hours for home search then back and kept for safety/security 23rd time? arrested 24th early morning in court



http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/judiciaria-suspeita-de-alta-violencia

From what I can work out:

18 Sept - Questioned by Portimão PJ.
So far, from the article about CdaM phoning her after midnight on 21 Sept, she denied the allegations put to her (which weren't actually mentioned, but came from a "judicial source"), and said that she hadn't heard anything more from the PJ since being questioned on Saturday (which would have been 18 Sept).
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/mae-nega-e-persiste-na-tese-de-rapto

That interview was seemingly with the Portimão PJ (before the Faro boys took over).

Four days later, the case of the missing 8 year old girl is transferred to the PJ in Portimão. Another four days later, it is transferred to the PJ Directory in Faro. The inspectors had no idea they now had in their hands one of the most complex cases ever confronted.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-without-trace-of-joana.html

(The number of days isn't always consistent depending on the articles, but often seems to be calculated as being from 13 Sept (when the official report was filed, not the night of her disappearance.)


Gonçalo Amaral: "You can tell that the house had been cleaned, that area where the blood was found had been cleaned. It had been cleaned with petroleum purchased by Leonor on the day she left the Portimão police station.


From a link which I've temporarily lost, there was a reference to the receipt for the petrol/paraffin whatever it was apparently dated 18 Sept.

21 Sept - Faro PJ took over
As detenções de Leonor Cipriano e do irmão, João, foram feitas na quinta-feira passada pelos inspectores da Secção Regional de Combate ao Banditismo da PJ de Faro, que assumiram as investigações do caso no dia 21, oito dias após o desaparecimento.



If I've understood this, from the interview with Leandro, he seemed to find the Portimão PJ Ok, but that the Faro lot had a different approach: punching / hitting them first, then interrogating them:


L.S. – Acho que os homens da Judiciária de Portimão não eram agressivos. Sabiam conversar connosco e tentavam, pelo menos, descobrir alguma coisa. Enquanto isso, os de Faro logo no primeiro dia que nos vieram buscar, foi logo para nos bater quando lá chegámos. Primeiro era porrada, depois é que faziam as perguntas. Acho que se a PJ de Portimão tivesse continuado com a investigação, se calhar tinham sacado alguma coisa de algum lado.

(...)
A.P. – Qual foi o momento mais difícil?
L.S. – Devem ter sido os castigos que levei na Judiciária, onde me chamaram tudo e mais alguma coisa. E fui agredido sempre que lá me levaram. Mas com as porradas aguento bem. Cá fora, o pior foi a gente passar na rua e ouvir as pessoas a insultar-nos. Cada um diz aquilo que quer e a gente não pode responder. Até evitei ir a certos cafés. Mas hoje, já entro em todos. Já não ouço nada. Agora, toda a gente me cumprimenta e fala bem tanto na Figueira, como na Mexilhoeira-Grande, onde vivo. Mas mesmo quando vou a Portimão ou outros sítios, não sinto qualquer problema.



She may well have gone home at night once the heavy-duty interrogations started, which would tend to make me think that she wasn't subject to sleep deprivation torture at the time (which is a point I've been wondering about), even if she may not have had much sleep even at home.

However, if Leandro is telling the truth, I wouldn't exclude physical intimidation, nor even letting her go home to ponder the prospect of admitting to a lesser charge, as opposed to a potential murder charge, and bluffing both Leonor and João that they had accused each other... and trying to get confessions that way.

Such tactics may not be illegal, but they don't seem to have been backed up by any tangible forensic evidence to support it.

Was a lawyer present during the entire interrogation period for both Leonor and João? If not, there is no way of knowing what actually preceded these confessions.

 



Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2013, 12:00:25 PM »
I forgot to add that the earliest date that I've found about a PJ team examining the house was 22 Sept.

Forensics search the house, locate and collect traces of blood (but not yet from the fridge, seemingly).

On the other hand, the actions that are part of the reconstitution act are compatible with the blood traces that were collected in the living room (it should be noted that the reconstitution takes place in the living room), as a result of the search and apprehension act that was carried out on the 22th of September 2004 (cfr. pages 173 and 233 and following), which mentions that traces were collected on the floor, near the entrance door, inside and outside, near the interior electrical switch on the right hand side of the entrance door, near the entrance on the left hand side of the sofa, on a pair of trainers belonging to MM * Silva that were located between the sofas, on a mop (handle) and its bucket.

Por outro lado, os actos que constam do auto de reconstituição são compatíveis com os vestígios hemáticos recolhidos na sala (repare-se que a reconstituição tem lugar na sala), como resulta do auto de busca e apreensão efectuado em 22.9.2004 (cfr. fls. 173 e 233 ss), onde consta que foram recolhidos vestígios no chão, junto à porta de entrada, exterior e interiormente, junto ao interruptor eléctrico interior à direita da porta de entrada, junto à entrada do lado esquerdo do sofá, num par de ténis de MM Silva que se encontrava entre os sofás, numa esfregona (haste) e respectivo balde. Estes vestígios, segundo perícias efectuadas, são de sangue humano e de sangue humano e animal (cfr. fls. 235), e embora fossem insuficientes para averiguar a quem pertencem através do ADN (fls. 1780 ss), são reveladores de que naquela sala aconteceu algo terrível, algo que deu origem a que houvesse sangue humano no chão e nas paredes, que foram limpos com uma esfregona e balde, sendo que o sangue que estava na esfregona se encontrava na haste, revelador que quem utilizou a esfregona tinha por sua vez as mãos sujas de sangue. Assim, os vestígios recolhidos na sala vêm reforçar a fiabilidade da reconstituição.


* ETA: I've taken out the translator's reference to MM as being Leandro as that doesn't seem to be accurate.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 12:05:04 PM by Carana »

Offline John

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2013, 09:37:01 AM »
Clearly when she came up against the examining magistrate on the 24 September 2004, her confession was not as a result of having been beaten up as some have consistently suggested.  She was detained while brother João was released, albeit only for two days.

I wonder was the release of João a tactic by the PJ to see where he went?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2013, 10:24:08 AM »
Clearly when she came up against the examining magistrate on the 24 September 2004, her confession was not as a result of having been beaten up as some have consistently suggested.  She was detained while brother João was released, albeit only for two days.

I wonder was the release of João a tactic by the PJ to see where he went?

The articles seem conflicting at the moment. Was she detained in custody as of 21 Sept while João was released and taken in again the next day, to see where he went? Possible. If she was allowed home after her interrogation at the end of 21 Sept... how long for?

I am not pushing the idea that Leonor was beaten up at the time of that confession, although I certainly wouldn't exclude rough-handling (Leandro's interview two years later says that he and others were, so - if what he says is true - why would she have been treated more delicately?). I wouldn't exclude the idea of allowing her to go home to see her children and ponder accepting a lesser plea so that Leandro could continue to bring up the kids. *

These interrogation sessions don't seem to have been recorded via audio / video, so perhaps we will never know.

There's something else that bothers me... but I'm trying to find the extracts in question.

* Eta: perhaps even trying to find Joana if they truly didn't know what had happened to her.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 10:36:18 AM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2013, 12:25:45 PM »
When was the first time that the PJ inspected the house? On 22 Sept, before.. after?

According to other links that I've posted the PJ Faro team only took over on 21 Sept and inspected the house on 22 Sept.

Would this seem to be correct or not?

Offline Carana

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2013, 05:00:23 PM »
I don't think we'll get anywhere on working out the interrogation techniques used back in September. They could have been served coffee and cakes every hour or have been punched / intimidated into possibly false confessions.

Leandro has stated that he and others were beaten when they were taken into Faro station. He also said that João didn't seem to be behaving normally when he had to go for this reconstruction, and Leonor was beaten black and blue at a later date.

Aside from the "confessions", what else supports what is alleged to have happened?

Offline ferryman

Re: Leonor Cipriano - The arrest and arraignment
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2014, 04:04:53 PM »
The law has since changed - arguido statements are now admissible, which was not the case back then. I think John's argument is that the torture occured after her preliminary "admission" to a lesser charge. My argument is that the circumstances leading up to even that preliminary one aren't clear (deprivation of sleep, or any threat that could affect her family is a form of torture, for example). Her various (pro bono) lawyers had assumed that the case would be dismissied... but they were wrong.

Interesting.

I wasn't aware of that.

And yes, I'm fully with you that interrogators capable of inflicting actual torture are equally capable of preceding torture with threats and menaces that leave no physical marks, but do the "job" of intimidating their recipients into saying things the aggressors want to hear ...