Author Topic: Leonor Cipriano, her confession and subsequent silence in the killing of her daughter Joana.  (Read 22200 times)

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Offline Wonderfulspam

And then what did he do with it?  Or wasn't he telling either?  This would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

Joana is going to turn up alive one day.  Won't that be fun.

Who do you reckon is holding her captive then?

Paedos, gypsies, burglars or black guys?

I reckon Steve has got her.

Offline Montclair

if you look at Portuguese crime cases they seem to get a high level of confessions...it seems that criminals just want to confess to give the pj a nice easy job...in the uk  avery low number of confessions...now why would that be?

How many times does someone have to tell you before it gets into your head that in Portugal only confessions made in court before the judges are valid as evidence. Any other confession made before must be confirmed by the defendent in court and if the defendent remains silent, it's as if there had never been any confession at all. Therefore, it would be of no interest to the police to beat a confession out of a suspect. This safeguard came about after the fascist regime was overthrown in order to protect defendents because under Salazar confessions beaten out of suspects by the PIDE. These confessions were often the only evidence put before the judges and were always accepted as enough to put someone behind bars. Do you understand?

Offline John

And then what did he do with it?  Or wasn't he telling either?  This would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

Joana is going to turn up alive one day.  Won't that be fun.

Disposing of manure in such a small quantity would not have been a problem.  If João was so innocent  why did he take the PJ on such a merry-go-round of sites where he claimed to have put her remains?  Again, these were not the actions of an innocent man.

If Joana was alive she would have most likely been identified by now.   She was old enough to be aware of her surroundings and that would always count against her.  An abductor would have had great difficulty dealing with her transportation over any sort of distance.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Eleanor

Who do you reckon is holding her captive then?

Paedos, gypsies, burglars or black guys?

I reckon Steve has got her.

I would believe anything horrible about Steve.

Offline Eleanor


They were the actions of a man who was afraid of being beaten again.

Offline John

They were the actions of a man who was afraid of being beaten again.

Not him Eleanor.  He was playing a game and the PJ knew it.

ps you didn't answer my question?



You are a senior police officer and have a young girl missing on your patch.  Her mother initially confesses to having bashed her head against a wall killing her and of asking her brother to hide the body.  The woman is then incarcerated in prison and refuses to say where the girl is hidden.  She gets a new lawyer and next thing you know she is denying the murder and refusing to cooperate.  There is a small chance the girl might still be alive or at the very least you have a chance of recovering her remains and giving her a decent funeral, what do you do?

1. Do you accept what the mother now says and abandon the search.

2. Do you apply pressure to the mother in an attempt to save the child?

This was the predicament which Amaral and his men were faced with.  They put their jobs and careers on the line for that little girl...the rest as they say is history.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 04:13:35 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Eleanor

Not him Eleanor.  He was playing a game and the PJ knew it.

ps you didn't answer my question?



You are a senior police officer and have a young girl missing on your patch.  Her mother initially confesses to having bashed her head against a wall killing her and of asking her brother to hide the body.  The woman is then incarcerated in prison and refuses to say where the girl is hidden.  She gets a new lawyer and next thing you know she is denying the murder and refusing to cooperate.  There is a small chance the girl might still be alive or at the very least you have a chance of recovering her remains and giving her a decent funeral, what do you do?

1. Do you accept what the mother now says and abandon the search.

2. Do you apply pressure to the mother in an attempt to save the child?

This was the predicament which Amaral and his men were faced with.  They put their jobs and careers on the line for that little girl...the rest as they say is history.

So The PJ thought that Joana might not have been murdered after all.  So beat her mother half senseless and she will say what ever they want her to say.  What a jolly wheeze.

Do have some sense, John.  They beat up that woman because they enjoyed doing it.  That is the sick truth.

But I'll tell you what.  They won't ever do it again. And they are all suffering the consequences.  Bunch of bloody thugs.  So don't try to sick Duty on me.

Offline davel

Not him Eleanor.  He was playing a game and the PJ knew it.

ps you didn't answer my question?



You are a senior police officer and have a young girl missing on your patch.  Her mother initially confesses to having bashed her head against a wall killing her and of asking her brother to hide the body.  The woman is then incarcerated in prison and refuses to say where the girl is hidden.  She gets a new lawyer and next thing you know she is denying the murder and refusing to cooperate.  There is a small chance the girl might still be alive or at the very least you have a chance of recovering her remains and giving her a decent funeral, what do you do?

1. Do you accept what the mother now says and abandon the search.

2. Do you apply pressure to the mother in an attempt to save the child?

This was the predicament which Amaral and his men were faced with.  They put their jobs and careers on the line for that little girl...the rest as they say is history.

You seem to be getting confused John..where the girl was hidden...I thought you said she was fed to the pigs...what a load of rubbish from a proven liar...amaral

Offline davel

How many times does someone have to tell you before it gets into your head that in Portugal only confessions made in court before the judges are valid as evidence. Any other confession made before must be confirmed by the defendent in court and if the defendent remains silent, it's as if there had never been any confession at all. Therefore, it would be of no interest to the police to beat a confession out of a suspect. This safeguard came about after the fascist regime was overthrown in order to protect defendents because under Salazar confessions beaten out of suspects by the PIDE. These confessions were often the only evidence put before the judges and were always accepted as enough to put someone behind bars. Do you understand?
I understand that you are trying to defend a corrupt system

Offline davel

Beliefs are badly overrated Dave, its evidence (all the evidence) which counts in the final analysis. Loads of rubbish are another issue.

and how much evidence have you seen re cipriano

Offline davel

Beliefs are badly overrated Dave, its evidence (all the evidence) which counts in the final analysis. Loads of rubbish are another issue.

 What I do know john is that there was no forensic evidence...they didnt bother to dna test the blood..didn't want to spoil there stich up did they

Offline Carana

For heavens sake Eleanor, Leonor confessed before the investigating magistrate before her new lawyer persuaded her to fight the case.  Not a finger had been laid on her as up until that moment she had been allowed home.  You really must try and understand the facts.

The only reason Leonor confessed was because just for a moment, she regretted what she had done.

In your opinion.

Leonor had told Leandro that she'd been beaten. He also stated that he and others had been in those early days as well. Beaten or not, psychological pressure and bluff can lead to false confessions, as I'm sure you're aware.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
In your opinion.

Leonor had told Leandro that she'd been beaten. He also stated that he and others had been in those early days as well. Beaten or not, psychological pressure and bluff can lead to false confessions, as I'm sure you're aware.

Violence was a way of life to the savage uncle convicted of murdering his own niece  ...  indeed,  he had already served a prison term for attemped murder  (  for money  )  in which a man was left blinded

This unspeakable  pair are where they belong 


Offline Carana

Violence was a way of life to the savage uncle convicted of murdering his own niece  ...  indeed,  he had already served a prison term for attemped murder  (  for money  )  in which a man was left blinded

This unspeakable  pair are where they belong

If they are indeed guilty, I agree with you that they are where they belong. However, I haven't found anything of substance to indicate that they are. Whatever the uncle got up to in the past isn't a justifiable reason to beat the hell out of people (or even the psychological equivalent) in police interrogations, IMO. Not just from a human rights perspective, but because people can end up making false confessions.

Offline Carana

Now you are making it up Sadie.  Leonor was living at home each night up until her arrest and initial confession.  Had there been any coercion we would have certainly heard about it.

Why ever not, he liked dishing it out.   The PJ knew only too well that there was only one language known to João Cipriano,  the language of violence.

So you approve of violence, then?