Author Topic: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.  (Read 8072 times)

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Offline John

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« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 01:09:35 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Anna

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2014, 02:38:20 PM »
I have corrected the links in Anna's post.

If you click on the link below and scroll down the page you will see an entire list of articles on the Joana case.

www.translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.dn.pt/especiais/especial.aspx%3Fespecial%3DCaso%2520Joana%26seccao%3DSOCIEDADE&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddi%25C3%25A1rio%2Bde%2Bnot%25C3%25ADcias%2Bcaso%2Bjoana%26client%3Dms-opera-mobile%26channel%3Dnew

Thank you, John
 I don't know why the original links no longer work.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
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Offline John

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2014, 03:29:09 PM »
Thank you, John
 I don't know why the original links no longer work.

I find that too sometimes so always best to post the actual article with photo if relevant and include the link at the bottom for validity and legal reasons.

If the article link is subsequently removed at least we still have the content.  The Sunday Times climb down being the classic example!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 03:31:27 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2014, 12:24:27 AM »
Is that list the best you can come up with Sadie to counter what João and Leonor Cipriano have already stated in evidence at all the trials?   Not one claim of stranger abduction from the moment they were arrested - does that not tell you something?
It has been mentioned John, but I dont think that it was termed Stranger Abduction at the time.

Quite honestly with
- tortured out evidence,
evidence from the witness (also tortured ou) later rescinded
- The characters of the two Officers in charge being so suspect .... one is a known criminal and the other is awaiting trial on seven quite gangsterish charges
- No proper forensic evidence
- Lies about the happiness of Joana
- lies about the way she was looked after
- The writing of books by the inspectors on one or both missing youngsters - mega money making !
- The lies put about before being made Arguidos and the trial =  pure propaganda designed to poison the minds of the public and the jurers /judges against The Ciprianos and The Mccanns
- The original Lawyer having drugs ? planted on him? 
- Then he was let off ? to persuade The Ciprianos NOT to speak in their own defence ?

..... Jeez !  maybe I am wrong but the whole lot stinks and the trial WAS NOT safe in any way.

Surely you can see that?
The whole thing smells of corruption and fixing up.  Only my opinion, but others seem to agree.


I am shattered, John.  Too tired to think any more atm.  I am sure there is more that I could think of, but not tonight.

Nigh Night
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 12:41:33 AM by sadie »
If you want to know the real facts read :  http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page

Hitler is credited with saying "Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth.
= "Propaganda personified."

Offline John

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2014, 12:51:07 AM »
It has been mentioned John, but I dont think that it was termed Stranger Abduction at the time.

Quite honestly with
- tortured out evidence,
evidence from the witness (also tortured ou) later rescinded
- The characters of the two Officers in charge being so suspect .... one is a known criminal and the other is awaiting trial on seven quite gangsterish charges
- No proper forensic evidence
- Lies about the happiness of Joana
- lies about the way she was looked after
- The writing of books by the inspectors on one or both missing youngsters - mega money making !
- The lies put about before being made Arguidos and the trial =  pure propaganda designed to poison the minds of the public and the jurers /judges against The Ciprianos and The Mccanns
- The original Lawyer having drugs ? planted on him? 
- Then he was let off ? to persuade The Ciprianos NOT to speak in their own defence ?

..... Jeez !  maybe I am wrong but the whole lot stinks and the trial WAS NOT safe in any way.

Surely you can see that?
The whole thing smells of corruption and fixing up.  Only my opinion, but others seem to agree.


I am shattered, John.  Too tired to think any more atm.  I am sure there is more that I could think of, but not tonight.

Nigh Night

Thanx for that Sadie, I will respond in due course.

Nite nite
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Anna

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2014, 11:09:55 AM »

What evidence of a stranger abduction would you expect them to be able to present?

It doesn't seem to have been the first idea that came to Leonor's mind. The GNR (in what appears to have been a search and rescue operation) hadn't found her, so that would have more or less crossed off an accident in the vicinity. How thorough would that operation have been? Would they have even noticed anything potentially relevant in forensic terms, such as a shred of clothing, or a child's sandal (if Leonor had got her footwear wrong) for example?

The family checked with relatives and friends in case she could have gone off with them for some reason, including her estranged husband.

There doesn't seem to have any systematic house-to-house enquiries, which might have revealed unfamiliar cars, faces, or anything else (although the Portimão cops may have started prior to the takeover by Faro), and there was no CCTV for police to check. A couple of witnesses said that they saw Leonor and João with a "bag", no doubt made to sound suspicious in the press, but it was just a shopping / carrier bag.

Spanish border had not been alerted by the look of this


10 oct 2004

Already in the afternoon yesterday, the stepfather of the child had been led to PJ of Faro in order to be interrogated again - the fourth lowest since disappeared on 12 September. "They came back to ask me the same questions and I gave the same answers. Wanted to know where was that day and went on to explain that was not in my house, but in my mother, with her, my stepfather and friend, "said the CM António Leandro.
That afternoon, they should have gone back to being heard in PJ's friend stepfather, what will happen in the coming days.
Already after learning that the brother had been in Figueira, hours before, accompanied by the PJ, António Leandro reaffirmed its confidence in Leonor Cipriano, his wife and mother Joan. "She never beat the child, even when she gave bad answers. How could have killed her?"
A doubt that since the disappearance of the girl, the whole family grieves Leandro. The Junk where almost all work, there was talk yesterday successive anonymous phone calls they receive daily for almost a month. "Sometimes callers are silent and almost fifteen minutes. They do not speak, do not hear anything. Sometimes, to insult us and arrived already get children to talk to us," lamented David Lourdes, mother of Antonio Leandro.
"I think Joan is alive. There is no body, no news confirming she's dead," said David Lourdes. "That's why none of us will Figueira in the procession."
NO SIGN OF CHILD IS ALMOST A MONTH
Tuesday, October 12, was a full month since Joanna was last seen, near the church of Figueira, Cockle party night in the village near Portimao. In this Sunday, September 12, his mother sent him to buy milk and preserved in pastry 'Celia'.
Joan was four days ago at Grandma (mom's stepfather) in Lagos, where it should only return on Monday. However, this Sunday at 18h00, Leonor took her back to Figueira. "She was here and was fine. Asked her if she wanted to go. Joana shrugged, did not answer me and I never saw her," recalled David Lourdes.
"At midnight I got a call from the Leandro asking if Joan was with me, because Eleanor had sent her shopping and she had not yet appeared. Next morning, when I got there, I saw Eleanor crying with John beside. soon realized that he had not appeared. Till today, "laments grandmother.
VANISHING FRONTIER NOT PASS
The disappearance of Joanna, which dominates the national present almost a month ago, went completely unnoticed in Spain, even in the province of Andalusia, which borders the Algarve. Spanish police say they know nothing and local newspapers just woken up to what happened yesterday.
"We have not received any request from the Portuguese authorities about the disappearance," confirmed the CM Rodrigues Pedro Perez, commander of the local police to Ayamonte. In Guardia Civil and the sub-delegation of the government's position is the same. "We do not know anything," he said official sources.
In Media, the surprise is total. Ayamonte, the radio does not know anything. And in Huelva, Andalusia's second city, the two main newspapers had not written a line about it. Something that could change in the coming days.


http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cmjornal.xl.pt%2Fdetalhe%2Fnoticias%2Fnacional%2Fportugal%2Fpj-insiste-em-buscas-com-o-tio&act=url

« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 11:22:03 AM by Anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
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Offline Carana

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2014, 04:55:55 PM »
Spanish border had not been alerted by the look of this


10 oct 2004

Already in the afternoon yesterday, the stepfather of the child had been led to PJ of Faro in order to be interrogated again - the fourth lowest since disappeared on 12 September. "They came back to ask me the same questions and I gave the same answers. Wanted to know where was that day and went on to explain that was not in my house, but in my mother, with her, my stepfather and friend, "said the CM António Leandro.
That afternoon, they should have gone back to being heard in PJ's friend stepfather, what will happen in the coming days.
Already after learning that the brother had been in Figueira, hours before, accompanied by the PJ, António Leandro reaffirmed its confidence in Leonor Cipriano, his wife and mother Joan. "She never beat the child, even when she gave bad answers. How could have killed her?"
A doubt that since the disappearance of the girl, the whole family grieves Leandro. The Junk where almost all work, there was talk yesterday successive anonymous phone calls they receive daily for almost a month. "Sometimes callers are silent and almost fifteen minutes. They do not speak, do not hear anything. Sometimes, to insult us and arrived already get children to talk to us," lamented David Lourdes, mother of Antonio Leandro.
"I think Joan is alive. There is no body, no news confirming she's dead," said David Lourdes. "That's why none of us will Figueira in the procession."
NO SIGN OF CHILD IS ALMOST A MONTH
Tuesday, October 12, was a full month since Joanna was last seen, near the church of Figueira, Cockle party night in the village near Portimao. In this Sunday, September 12, his mother sent him to buy milk and preserved in pastry 'Celia'.
Joan was four days ago at Grandma (mom's stepfather) in Lagos, where it should only return on Monday. However, this Sunday at 18h00, Leonor took her back to Figueira. "She was here and was fine. Asked her if she wanted to go. Joana shrugged, did not answer me and I never saw her," recalled David Lourdes.
"At midnight I got a call from the Leandro asking if Joan was with me, because Eleanor had sent her shopping and she had not yet appeared. Next morning, when I got there, I saw Eleanor crying with John beside. soon realized that he had not appeared. Till today, "laments grandmother.
VANISHING FRONTIER NOT PASS
The disappearance of Joanna, which dominates the national present almost a month ago, went completely unnoticed in Spain, even in the province of Andalusia, which borders the Algarve. Spanish police say they know nothing and local newspapers just woken up to what happened yesterday.
"We have not received any request from the Portuguese authorities about the disappearance," confirmed the CM Rodrigues Pedro Perez, commander of the local police to Ayamonte. In Guardia Civil and the sub-delegation of the government's position is the same. "We do not know anything," he said official sources.
In Media, the surprise is total. Ayamonte, the radio does not know anything. And in Huelva, Andalusia's second city, the two main newspapers had not written a line about it. Something that could change in the coming days.


http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cmjornal.xl.pt%2Fdetalhe%2Fnoticias%2Fnacional%2Fportugal%2Fpj-insiste-em-buscas-com-o-tio&act=url

The GNR / rescue services hadn't found her; she wasn't at any of her relatives... ergo adults in the home at the time "did it". No body? No problem. She was chopped up and fed to pigs, taken in a car to be squashed over the border (which hadn't received an alert about the case, apparently) ... But, hey ho, anything goes. Case solved.

Offline Anna

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2014, 08:49:21 PM »
The GNR / rescue services hadn't found her; she wasn't at any of her relatives... ergo adults in the home at the time "did it". No body? No problem. She was chopped up and fed to pigs, taken in a car to be squashed over the border (which hadn't received an alert about the case, apparently) ... But, hey ho, anything goes. Case solved.

I thought they were supposed to have checked out Ayamont for an adoption couple, Germans and that car that was circulating the village
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
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Offline Carana

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2014, 03:41:06 PM »
Amaral was the coordinator of the investigation. He wasn't convicted of personally beating anyone up. On the other hand, he would have (or should) have given instructions to his team - unless anyone is suggesting that he hadn't a clue what his team was up to.

Whatever Amaral did or didn't do, my issue is that it was a lousy investigation and an even lousier trial.

More importantly, there is a child whose whose fate is still unknown and people serving long sentences who may not be those who should be in jail.

Aside from drumming up a few witnesses, what did the defence attorneys actually do? In the absence of a robust defence, there wasn't much for the jury to actually consider. It wouldn't have taken Roux to demolish that case. IMO.

Offline John

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2014, 03:48:19 PM »
Amaral was the coordinator of the investigation. He wasn't convicted of personally beating anyone up. On the other hand, he would have (or should) have given instructions to his team - unless anyone is suggesting that he hadn't a clue what his team was up to.

Whatever Amaral did or didn't do, my issue is that it was a lousy investigation and an even lousier trial.

More importantly, there is a child whose whose fate is still unknown and people serving long sentences who may not be those who should be in jail.

Aside from drumming up a few witnesses, what did the defence attorneys actually do? In the absence of a robust defence, there wasn't much for the jury to actually consider. It wouldn't have taken Roux to demolish that case. IMO.

Yes...it was a car crash.  That said however, their conduct throughout clearly implicates them both to a greater or lesser degree in Joana's disappearance.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 04:07:26 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2014, 04:36:24 PM »
Yes...it was a car crash.  That said however, their conduct throughout clearly implicates them both to a greater or lesser degree in Joana's disappearance.

That's where I disagree for the moment. If I change my mind, I'll say so.

Aside from what I consider to be dubious "confessions", there is... nothing that I find convincing. Unless one counts some unchallenged woman, who didn't live there, as asserting that all Joana's footwear was in the house at some unspecified time. There were also a few traces of unidentifiable  blood... but that would be true of any household.

Offline Carana

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Re: Leonor Cipriano's ex Leandro Silva claims Joana was abducted or sold.
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2014, 05:50:13 PM »
No motive
No weapon
No forensics of consequence
No "confessions" that could be verified as being truly genuine
No body
No real investigation beyond the first 10 days
No real defence
No (or little) balanced media reporting

But the verdict was considered to be beyond any reasonable doubt??

Offline sadie

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There will be a court record of both Leonor and João's original verbal confessions to the magistrate.   Leonor said initially that she did it and João said he hid the body.  This eventually morphed into João abducted the girl with a view to selling her but it went horribly wrong.  Take your pick because they are both practised liars with Leonor being convicted of perjury.
Yep, maybe if you had been tortured so badly, you would be a practiced liar?

Leonors conviction is the grossest miscarriage of Justice I have ever heard of, except for....

....  The previous trial when both Joao and Leonor were committed to prison for 20 odd years, reduced to was it 16 years?

Severe torture, beatings, lies, disinformation, no defensive statements by the defendents FGS, Spin, spin and more spin ... and then a closed trial on a trumped up charge against Leonor.  A closed trial ... Jeez !


The whole thing stinks tbh.
If you want to know the real facts read :  http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page

Hitler is credited with saying "Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth.
= "Propaganda personified."

Offline John

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Yep, maybe if you had been tortured so badly, you would be a practiced liar?

Leonors conviction is the grossest miscarriage of Justice I have ever heard of, except for....

....  The previous trial when both Joao and Leonor were committed to prison for 20 odd years, reduced to was it 16 years?

Severe torture, beatings, lies, disinformation, no defensive statements by the defendents FGS, Spin, spin and more spin ... and then a closed trial on a trumped up charge against Leonor.  A closed trial ... Jeez !


The whole thing stinks tbh.

So does the thought that this pair could sell their own flesh and blood for monetary gain.  What a dysfunctional pair they are, no wonder the family don't want her back.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

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So does the thought that this pair could sell their own flesh and blood for monetary gain.  What a dysfunctional pair they are, no wonder the family don't want her back.
John that is an under the belt comment.  Where do you get the info that they made monetary gain from? 

[.... speculation removed ...]


The only people that I know made money from these child abduction/ disappearance cases are Amaral and Cristavao.  They wrote salacious books about the missing kids and are quids in.  Oh and the newspapers.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 11:51:00 PM by John »
If you want to know the real facts read :  http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page

Hitler is credited with saying "Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth.
= "Propaganda personified."