Author Topic: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos  (Read 29902 times)

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Offline Myster

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2012, 06:06:36 PM »

Having looked at a brightened up photo of Nevill's den with the cubby-hole/gun cupboard in the corner, I seem to think that the small room with the open door was a vestibule just inside the Back Door. There seems to be a way through to the bottom of the stair between a coat rack and chair/seat on the back wall and a small wooden box just to the left of the door jamb.

As the room above was the upper office, the stairs may have had more use than I previously thought, even though they look fairly steep, around 50 degrees.
(Roger Wilkes mentions that Robert Boutflour went "up" to the office to see the farm secretary to pay for two farm forks that his son bought off Jeremy Bamber)

Bamber's rough sketch shows the upper office closed off from the rest of the house, but the case plan shows it to be open, although this may be because it is unfinished.

Does John, abs, or anyone know whether the upper office was closed off from the bedroom passage, to keep the two functions, residential and commercial separate?

If it was open then this would have been more convenient for the assailant to get upstairs without disturbing anyone or the dog.


‘Somebody in this case is lying, and lying their heads off.’ Anthony Arlidge QC, closing speech at the Bamber trial, 22 October 1986

Offline Andrea

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2012, 06:08:01 PM »
I cant find em. I will have to look in my phone and see if theyre still there.

Offline abs

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2012, 06:11:19 PM »

Having looked at a brightened up photo of Nevill's den with the cubby-hole/gun cupboard in the corner, I seem to think that the small room with the open door was a vestibule just inside the Back Door. There seems to be a way through to the bottom of the stair between a coat rack and chair/seat on the back wall and a small wooden box just to the left of the door jamb.

As the room above was the upper office, the stairs may have had more use than I previously thought, even though they look fairly steep, around 50 degrees.
(Roger Wilkes mentions that Robert Boutflour went "up" to the office to see the farm secretary to pay for two farm forks that his son bought off Jeremy Bamber)

Bamber's rough sketch shows the upper office closed off from the rest of the house, but the case plan shows it to be open, although this may be because it is unfinished.

Does John, abs, or anyone know whether the upper office was closed off from the bedroom passage, to keep the two functions, residential and commercial separate?

If it was open then this would have been more convenient for the assailant to get upstairs without disturbing anyone or the dog.

I don´t know - I find the floorplans of the house extremely confusing.

Offline Andrea

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2012, 06:19:23 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udJLbDXhTuk&feature=related


Can anyone speak french!! This is a french doc about Bamber.

Offline Andrea

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2012, 06:20:28 PM »
Some footage of the house i have never seen before.

Offline John

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2012, 07:06:43 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udJLbDXhTuk&feature=related


Can anyone speak french!! This is a french doc about Bamber.

A nice find Andy.  I can speak enough French to understand most of the video.  It doesn't tell us any more than we already knew but the commentary by Julie is interesting.  She refers to Jeremy as a very sad man.  I assume she means pathetic rather than sorrowful?

It goes with the theory that he cycled to and fro on the night of the murders.

One thing I have been thinking about is why didn't Jeremy cover himself with an iron clad alibi if he had someone else do the killings?  I believe the reason for not doing so was because he was there.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Andrea

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2012, 08:02:56 PM »
Are you going to get a few screen shots from it?

Offline abs

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2012, 08:08:50 PM »
Are you going to get a few screen shots from it?

Watched it, thanks Andrea.

Offline Andrea

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2012, 08:23:06 PM »
I havent watched it in full yet. I cant understand French.
Would like to know what they said about the trial.

Offline John

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2012, 08:25:53 PM »
Are you going to get a few screen shots from it?

If you want...what would you like?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2012, 08:27:27 PM »
I havent watched it in full yet. I cant understand French.
Would like to know what they said about the trial.

Just generalities basically all of which we already know.  Most of it was taken from existing Press reports.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline abs

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2012, 08:53:42 PM »
Hadn´t seen the drawings of the trial.

Offline Myster

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2012, 06:41:15 PM »

I can see how easy it would have been for Jeremy Bamber to enter WHF by the sliding-sash window to the Washroom/Toilet in the corner here...,



...as it's well concealed from view on the Eastern side of the building and large enough for an adult to get through, but to exit from the upper casement of the kitchen window here...,



...he would need to be a contortionist.

Wilkes identifies this same window by means of a photo as the escape route.

Does anyone have any alternative ideas?


‘Somebody in this case is lying, and lying their heads off.’ Anthony Arlidge QC, closing speech at the Bamber trial, 22 October 1986

Offline John

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2012, 06:57:39 PM »
From the Court of Appeal documents.

99. Later the appellant said he had decided to shoot his family and he told her that he had discovered that the catch on the kitchen window did not work and he could gain access to the house in that way. The appellant said he planned to leave the address by a different window, which latched when it was shut from the outside.

135. He told the police that there were occasions when he gained entry to his parents' home by way of a number of the downstairs windows including those in the kitchen and the bathroom. He explained that he used a knife to move the catches in order that the window could be opened from the outside.

141. The appellant claimed to have returned to the farmhouse within a day or two of his release from the Police Station, i.e. a day or two from the 13 September, and gained entry via the downstairs bathroom window. He said he had done this because he had left his keys in London and needed some documents for his trip to the South of France.

146. He had the means and knowledge to gain entry to the address, one such route being through the bathroom window.

149. The appellant returned the moderator to the gun cupboard and before leaving the address called his home at Goldhanger, leaving the receiver off the hook, thus lending support to the alibi he would later rely upon. He then left the premises, one available route being to climb out of the kitchen window, banging it from the outside to drop the catch back into position and then cycled home.

151. iv) The appellant's admitted ability to effect covert entry into and exit from the farmhouse and the finding of the hacksaw blade outside the bathroom window.

262. It was the Crown's case that the appellant entered White House Farm, for the purpose of carrying out the murders, by the downstairs bathroom window and left the premises by the kitchen window.

263. Police Sergeant Golding gave evidence that at 2.30 p.m. on 7 August he commenced to secure the ground floor and found all windows to be secure and fastened with the exception of two windows. One was in the ground floor bathroom, which was in a closed position with the catch open. He secured the window by closing the latch. The other was a transom window, which formed part of a casement type window in the kitchen. The transom window was open approximately halfway. He secured the window.

268. The examination of the Farm for entry and exit marks became particularly significant. On the 1 October 1985 Brian Elliott a forensic scientist examined the window catch and surrounding area of the downstairs bathroom/toilet sash window. He noticed that the brass catch had been scratched on the inner edge and that there was damage to the white paintwork on the adjacent faces of the top of the bottom sash and the bottom of the top sash. The white paint on the outside of the window including the outer face of the top of the bottom sash appeared clean and fresh.

269. He concluded that the damage to the sash window and catch was consistent with a thin blade having been inserted between the closely fitting sashes of the window in an effort to force the catch open. Furthermore this attack occurred after the outside of the window had last been painted. There was evidence that the windows had been painted in June and July.

270. It was the prosecution case that the marks on the paintwork had been made by the appellant when entering the Farm during the late evening or early hours of the 6 or 7 August in order to commit the murders.

271. It was the defence case, revealed for the first time at trial, that the appellant made those marks following his release after Police interview on or about 16 September upon his return from London having forgotten his keys. It was of potential advantage to the defence to demonstrate that the window in question was examined on the 8, 9, or 10 September and that at that time no marks were found on the window.

273. ..."They (Robert Boulflour and Ann Eaton) thought the windows could be locked from outside the premises making particular reference to the window behind the bushes by the Geese pond facing towards the tennis court".

This would appear to be the kitchen window and provides the explanation for DC Barlow's examination of the kitchen window.

279. In evidence the appellant stated that he had returned to the farm the night after his release or the night after that – i.e. on the 14 or 15 September. In evidence he said

"After my arrest at Chelmsford I went to London, came back and had not got my key. I needed car documents kept in the office for a holiday and I got in the loo window."

284. On the 12 September, 2 days later he was asked:

"Question: Have you ever got in a window by putting something in between the window frames, like a knife, to move the catch so you could slide the window open?

Answer: "Yes".

Question: Which window?

Answer: Downstairs toilet and lounge window". 

         

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 07:26:15 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Myster

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Re: White House Farm - Floor plans and photos
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2012, 07:31:54 PM »


It was alleged Jeremy entered the farmhouse via the window for the downstairs toilet and that he climbed out of a window in the kitchen.

This is what Arlidge accused Bamber of doing during the trial.
(Wilkes prints a part extract of the court transcript, pg. 240.)

And of course JB denied it all!

That 2002 Court Judgement is enough to give you a headache twice over..., I printed it all out a year ago to read at leisure. When you've read through to the end you forget what was at the beginning!





‘Somebody in this case is lying, and lying their heads off.’ Anthony Arlidge QC, closing speech at the Bamber trial, 22 October 1986