Did Jeremy Bamber use chloroform to subdue Sheila?

[Caroline]

I think it's probably an optical illusion with SC's long dark eyelashes in that they look fractionally open but are in fact closed.  Lovely natural brow line.

Anyway as far as I can see whether eyes are open or closed, or somewhere in between, it doesn't seem to prove anything from a physiological/post mortem perspective?

They ARE partially open.

[Holly Goodhead]

They ARE partially open.

In your opinion.   As discussed on this forum whether they are open or closed or somewhere in between it doesn't prove anything from a physiological/post mortem perspective.  On this basis I find your fascination with photos of the deceased somewhat morbid and worrying 

[Caroline]

In your opinion.   As discussed on this forum whether they are open or closed or somewhere in between it doesn't prove anything from a physiological/post mortem perspective.  On this basis I find your fascination with photos of the deceased somewhat morbid and worrying 

I didn't say her eyes being 'partially' open means anything, just pointing out that they weren't closed as that was the query at the time.

[Holly Goodhead]

I didn't say her eyes being 'partially' open means anything, just pointing out that they weren't closed as that was the query at the time.

In your opinion.  Thankfully I don't view life through your lens Caroline.

[Caroline]

What is my opinion? That Sheila's eye's aren't partially open? Errrr, the picture shows that they are. Perhaps Specsavers might be your next stop cuz whatever lens you are viewing from needs some help!   

[Holly Goodhead]

What is my opinion? That Sheila's eye's aren't partially open? Errrr, the picture shows that they are. Perhaps Specsavers might be your next stop cuz whatever lens you are viewing from needs some help!   

Your opinion that SC's eyes are open.  I know you struggle with others not sharing your pearls of wisdom but you need to try and understand your views are just that and not necessarily shared by others no matter how obvious they might seem to you. 

Some posters see SC's blood trails as wet; others see them as dry.  Both can't be right.  Another example of different perceptions on the photo.

[Caroline]

Your opinion that SC's eyes are open.  I know you struggle with others not sharing your pearls of wisdom but you need to try and understand your views are just that and not necessarily shared by others no matter how obvious they might seem to you. 

Some posters see SC's blood trails as wet; others see them as dry.  Both can't be right.  Another example of different perceptions on the photo.

Bollocks! 

[John]

If SC's state at SoC was so obvious why did none of the police officers switch onto it straight away along with Dr Craig and Dr Vanezis?  In the early days DS Jones was the only dissenter and he added nothing of evidential value according to Dr Vanezis.  DS Jones' suspicions were based on JB's behaviour.  DS Jones wasn't some high flying police officer just returned from secondment training with elite NY cops but a 45 year old who had only reached the rank of DS with a UK based provincial force.

The pathologist never saw Sheila until she arrived in the morgue by which time her appearance had changed considerably having been enclosed in a body bag before being put in a coffin for transportation.  He was shocked when he later saw the original crime scene photos taken by PC Bird.

[Holly Goodhead]

The pathologist never saw Sheila until she arrived in the morgue by which time her appearance had changed considerably having been enclosed in a body bag before being put in a coffin for transportation.  He was shocked when he later saw the original crime scene photos taken by PC Bird.

The body bags used were for 'suspicious deaths'.  Pathologists are highly trained and experienced professionals.  In the case of Dr Vanezis he went on to preside over some of the most high profile cases across the globe and not a whiff of incompetence or wrongdoing.  I don't accept he was incapable of distinguishing between blood distribution and location from SoC and transference from the body bag.

Numerous individuals observed the victims in situ: raid team, SoC officers, police photographer, various detectives and medical doctor.  Are we to believe that these highly trained individuals with hundred of years combined experience were all so inept they overlooked what was staring them in the face?  That they were so sold on JB's phone call they were unable to see the wood for the trees? 

[John]

The body bags used were for 'suspicious deaths'.  Pathologists are highly trained and experienced professionals.  In the case of Dr Vanezis he went on to preside over some of the most high profile cases across the globe and not a whiff of incompetence or wrongdoing.  I don't accept he was incapable of distinguishing between blood distribution and location from SoC and transference from the body bag.

Numerous individuals observed the victims in situ: raid team, SoC officers, police photographer, various detectives and medical doctor.  Are we to believe that these highly trained individuals with hundred of years combined experience were all so inept they overlooked what was staring them in the face?  That they were so sold on JB's phone call they were unable to see the wood for the trees?

Apparently so!

[steve_trousers]

She was sleeping, he woke her up at the point when he wanted to kill her.  He held her had gun point she had little choice but to comply. Very few people actually attack someone holding  agun on them trying to disarm such person and it is harder with a rifle because the person keeps you further away than a handgun does.

In the meantime he also could have threatened to hurt the boys if she didn't comply. Even if they were already dead she didn't know it.

After being shot the first time she raised her right hand to her wound which resulted in blood getting on her outer palm/wrist and running down her arm to her elbow.  She wasn't unconscious at the time the shot was fired quite clearly though the shot could have rapidly sent her into shock. Jeremy freaked out because she was still moving and jammed the gun into her chin at that point and fired again killing her.

This explanation makes the most sense to me. I always thought Bamber must have gone to the boys bedroom first, then moved onto Nevile & June's room but finding Neville aleady awake and semi prepared for him, having been awoken by the muffled gunfire next door perhaps. One of the things that did go right for Jeremy was not waking Sheila up, although it wasn't make or break to his plan provided he was swift with the others.

The choroform would have been a great idea, except I can't see Jeremy with his big mouth keeping it quiet, as someone above mentioned. He would have needed to ask around for something like that.