Author Topic: Are some charities really commercial entities?  (Read 26113 times)

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Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2015, 09:10:11 PM »
So what does the CEO do other than sign documents and push paper ?

Oh dear Stephen, there really is no hope for you. 

So you really think the running of a major charity should be a part time, voluntary activity?


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2015, 09:24:00 PM »
Oh dear Stephen, there really is no hope for you. 

So you really think the running of a major charity should be a part time, voluntary activity?


Just tell me what they do ,which isn't mundane.

You can do that can't you ?

Does the head of Macmillan do a more important job than a PM or even a worker in the sewers ?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 09:27:07 PM by stephen25000 »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2015, 09:26:22 PM »
So what does the CEO do other than sign documents and push paper ?

you are sounding quite dim...the CEO of a charity does the same job as the CEO of a business...
you sound like a true left wing socialist who wants to drag everyone down to the lowest level...

it may not be fair but there are talented people who create wealth...unless you reward these people then you will have no growth for everyone...communism has failed miserably...just look at Russia and China who have now embraced capitalism

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2015, 07:15:46 AM »

Just tell me what they do ,which isn't mundane.

You can do that can't you ?

Does the head of Macmillan do a more important job than a PM or even a worker in the sewers ?

Successful leaders of organisations do not just push bits of paper around, as you seem to fondly imagine. 

 

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2015, 09:17:24 AM »
Successful leaders of organisations do not just push bits of paper around, as you seem to fondly imagine.

So give some examples of notable benefits these people have brought to civilization.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2015, 09:27:42 AM »
So give some examples of notable benefits these people have brought to civilization.
Do you approve of the services of MacMillan Cancer Support or not?  How do you think they are funded?  Who is ultimately responsible for ensuring that funds are raised to pay for their services?  Would you prefer a sewage worker to be put in charge of this multi-million pound charity? 

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2015, 09:38:08 AM »
Do you approve of the services of MacMillan Cancer Support or not?  How do you think they are funded?  Who is ultimately responsible for ensuring that funds are raised to pay for their services?  Would you prefer a sewage worker to be put in charge of this multi-million pound charity?

Twisting words Alfred.

Now list the achievements of the CEO.

P.S. I did not say I disprove of salaries, merely the exorbitant salaries some receive.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 09:43:19 AM by stephen25000 »

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2015, 09:49:02 AM »
Twisting words Alfred.

Now list the achievements of the CEO.

P.S. I did not say I disprove of salaries, merely the exorbitant salaries some receive.
The CEO is ultimately responsible for the success or failure of the charity - if the charity is successfully raising funds and helping those it is intended to help then that is a measure of the CEO's achievement, or would you not agree?

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2015, 10:07:11 AM »
The CEO is ultimately responsible for the success or failure of the charity - if the charity is successfully raising funds and helping those it is intended to help then that is a measure of the CEO's achievement, or would you not agree?

and if the funds fall as in the case of missing persons ?

and does the CEO handle all advertising ?

and what of the real people who actually work for the charity and help people ?

Or are you of the elitist mentality and really believe the CEO does all the back braking jobs ?

@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

P.S. In recent history as no doubt you have observed there have been numerous directors/C.E.O.'s who have been found wanting in their jobs and still walk away with terminal financial packages even when they were incompetent or stood over a rapid decline in their business.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 10:14:41 AM by stephen25000 »

Offline John

Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2015, 01:07:26 PM »
This topic has been taken from another thread and looks at charities in general.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Justice K

Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2015, 01:13:19 PM »
This topic has been taken from another thread and looks at charities in general.

There can be no doubt that in many cases the line between commercial entity and charity is blurred.  In my experience there are charities currently operating in the UK which are not really a charity at all.  The checking mechanisms within the Commission are so inadequate that I fear these issues will never be addressed.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 01:15:52 PM by Mr Justice K »
Law without justice is a wound without a cure.  (William Scott Downey)

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2015, 02:14:45 PM »
and if the funds fall as in the case of missing persons ?

and does the CEO handle all advertising ?

and what of the real people who actually work for the charity and help people ?

Or are you of the elitist mentality and really believe the CEO does all the back braking jobs ?

@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

P.S. In recent history as no doubt you have observed there have been numerous directors/C.E.O.'s who have been found wanting in their jobs and still walk away with terminal financial packages even when they were incompetent or stood over a rapid decline in their business.
There are good CEOs and there are bad CEOS, just as there are good and bad examples of sewage workers - so what?

Offline misty

Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2015, 03:36:13 PM »
The Church is probably the biggest charity of all. Some leaders of the CofE are on 6 figure salaries. An enterprise which has a global "distribution market" cannot possibly be run by a sewage worker on minimum wage.
David Milliband
*snip*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Miliband#International_Rescue_Committee_.28IRC.29
Miliband became the President and CEO of the International Rescue Committee on 1 September 2013. At the IRC, Miliband will be overseeing humanitarian aid and development programs in 40 countries, a global staff of 12,000 and 1,300 volunteers, and an annual budget of $450 million.[67] Near the top of the IRC, Miliband again installed his former Special Political Advisor from London, Madlin Sadler. She became the aid agency's Chief of Staff.[68]

Offline G-Unit

Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2015, 03:46:55 PM »
Charities aren't commercial entities as they don't sell goods or services for profit. Their income is raised by applying for grants, asking for donations and fund raising. Large charities have similarities to commercial enterprises however.

They have the same expenses as a commercial enterprise; direct costs such as costs relating to fund raising events and overheads such as office premises, audit costs, accountancy.

Unlike commercial enterprises charities pay no tax because they make no profits. Income is spent on the charity's aims, helping a certain group of people or addressing a particular problem..

Working for a charity is not all that different from working in commerce. Whether you're publicising the charity, organising the charity's shops or organising events the roles will have similarities to business roles. I would imagine charity staff are more likely to ask for and expect discounts, that's all.

Volunteers are more likely to be used by charities both as a way to save money and to involve the community. Most charity shop staff are volunteers. Other roles would be marshalling events, fundraising or manning helplines.

Ethically charities have been criticised for being too similar to commercial enterprises. They have similar staff structures and similar salary rates. The 'hard sell' approach has been criticised - for example when charities send people out on the streets to sign people up for giving by direct debit. They have also been criticised for having large wages bills which lessen the funds available for charitable purposes. Hence the scrutiny of the ratio between salary costs and funds raised and available for the charity's work. People also see them as being an easy option; do nothing and pay the charities to deal with problems.
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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Are some charities really commercial entities?
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2015, 06:26:06 PM »
There are good CEOs and there are bad CEOS, just as there are good and bad examples of sewage workers - so what?

Who does a more important job alfred, a sewage worker or CEO  ?