Author Topic: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?  (Read 8392 times)

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Offline misty

Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?

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« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 01:43:22 PM by John »

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 10:34:04 PM »
Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?

I believe they did misty.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline misty

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 10:44:50 PM »
I believe they did misty.

Thanks. I just wondered whether, if they had, it proved to be of use in that investigation.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 11:16:14 PM »
Thanks. I just wondered whether, if they had, it proved to be of use in that investigation.
What did the police get them to "reconstitute" I wonder...?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 11:45:51 PM »
What did the police get them to "reconstitute" I wonder...?

This hardly bears thinking about because there wasn't anything to reconstitute.  Apart from Joana, and no one saw where she went after she left the shop.

But it didn't half stitch them up, whatever it was.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2015, 12:04:53 AM »
What did the police get them to "reconstitute" I wonder...?

From RTP October 2008 :

"Leonor and her brother confessed the crime to the PJ. João Cipriano even participated in a video reconstitution where he explained with the kitchen stool, how the girl was killed in a beating and where she hit her head against the wall. The images filmed by the PJ were shown in court against the protest of the defense attorneys."
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline misty

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2015, 12:10:39 AM »
From RTP October 2008 :

"Leonor and her brother confessed the crime to the PJ. João Cipriano even participated in a video reconstitution where he explained with the kitchen stool, how the girl was killed in a beating and where she hit her head against the wall. The images filmed by the PJ were shown in court against the protest of the defense attorneys."

So the only reconstitution was the alleged act of manslaughter itself and not the movements of the accused people  on the night Joana disappeared?

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2015, 12:15:57 AM »
So the only reconstitution was the alleged act of manslaughter itself and not the movements of the accused people  on the night Joana disappeared?

You mean murder don't you misty ?
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline misty

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2015, 12:32:18 AM »
You mean murder don't you misty ?

No. No cause of death could be proven.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2015, 12:32:51 AM »
So the only reconstitution was the alleged act of manslaughter itself and not the movements of the accused people  on the night Joana disappeared?

Ah, just a reconstitution of how he done it.  Probably to avoid another beating.  Did they do it On Site?  In the Pig Pen?  Or was it in a car sent for scrap?  Or halfway up a mountain?  They never did decide where.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 12:35:29 AM »
Ah, just a reconstitution of how he done it.  Probably to avoid another beating.  Did they do it On Site?  In the Pig Pen?  Or was it in a car sent for scrap?  Or halfway up a mountain?  They never did decide where.

Was he beaten then Eleanor ?
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Eleanor

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 01:32:42 AM »
Was he beaten then Eleanor ?

Quite possibly.  Everyone else was.  Why should he have been left out?  Leandro Silva say he was.  And I actually believe him.  But Leandro didn't give in.

Offline mercury

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2015, 01:49:03 AM »
Quite possibly.  Everyone else was.  Why should he have been left out?  Leandro Silva say he was.  And I actually believe him.  But Leandro didn't give in.

You make it sound like Portugal just ten years ago was the equivalent of the worst South American states in the 70s with their disappearring of thousands of people and torture, steady on


Offline Eleanor

Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2015, 03:02:15 AM »
You make it sound like Portugal just ten years ago was the equivalent of the worst South American states in the 70s with their disappearring of thousands of people and torture, steady on

It probably was.  And certainly nothing much to write home about.  Many abuses of ordinary people.  You should read some history of what was going on in Portugal in the not so distant past.

The real shit bags reinvented themselves.  Amaral and the likes of he were just part of the reinvention.  Not even their fault actually.  But they did go on to reinfect The PJ.

It isn't rocket science.  It happens in every dictatorship for a number of years.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2015, 08:51:14 AM »
From RTP October 2008 :

"Leonor and her brother confessed the crime to the PJ. João Cipriano even participated in a video reconstitution where he explained with the kitchen stool, how the girl was killed in a beating and where she hit her head against the wall. The images filmed by the PJ were shown in court against the protest of the defense attorneys."
How very macabre.  Do the PJ always get murderers to take part in video reconstitutions of their crimes?  for what purpose I wonder?