Author Topic: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?  (Read 7281 times)

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Offline Alfie

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2015, 09:21:13 AM »
If you have confessed to a murder then I can't really see the point in making you perform your murder in front of video cameras unless it is to ensure your guilty actions are physically witnessed by the eyes of the court and your guilt therefore thoroughly cemented as fact.  It's all a bit dodgy in my view. 
Only asking questions....

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2015, 10:33:22 AM »
Quite possibly.  Everyone else was.  Why should he have been left out?  Leandro Silva say he was.  And I actually believe him.  But Leandro didn't give in.

Leandro Silva only said he was beaten after a large compensation cheque was wiggled in front of his nose by Correia.

Tell me Eleanor when does the case against the PJ officers who 'beat up' JC and LS come to court ?
'The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants.
'There is therefore a significant, and not merely a semantic difference, between the legally admissible foundations of the archive ruling.
'It doesn't therefore seem acceptable that the ruling, based on the insufficiency of evidence, should be equated to proof of innocence.'

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2015, 10:34:53 AM »
No. No cause of death could be proven.

The couple were convicted of murder I think that's all we need to know.
'The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants.
'There is therefore a significant, and not merely a semantic difference, between the legally admissible foundations of the archive ruling.
'It doesn't therefore seem acceptable that the ruling, based on the insufficiency of evidence, should be equated to proof of innocence.'

Offline Benice

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2015, 12:05:46 PM »
Leandro Silva only said he was beaten after a large compensation cheque was wiggled in front of his nose by Correia.

Tell me Eleanor when does the case against the PJ officers who 'beat up' JC and LS come to court ?

It doesn't look as if it ever will come to court.      It would seem that as none of the PJ officers present at the police station at the time -  have the slightest idea which ones amongst them spent their time torturing a defenceless woman  - then that's an end to it.     The word 'unbelievable!' doesn't even come close IMO. 



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2015, 01:09:25 PM »
I don't find that "common experience" that children normally get home safely is evidence that this particular child did.

There obviously ARE cases in which abused children have been the subject of investigations into false abduction scenarios. I'm aware of that. However, in this case, I can't see anything to support that this was the case.

There is simply no significant evidence to support what is alleged to have happened to this child.

On the other hand, there IS evidence that the media turned against the Ciprianos once the Faro boys arrived in Portimão.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 09:12:37 AM by John »

Offline Carana

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2015, 01:22:50 PM »
Specks of unidentifiable and undated blood in an average household (some of which was of animal origin) just doesn't seem to be compatible with the the prosecution theory of sawing a child in half and then in several pieces without leaving the slightest trace of incriminating forensic traces to support that theory anywhere seems somewhat unlikely.


Online stephen25000

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2015, 05:59:20 PM »
I don't find that "common experience" that children normally get home safely is evidence that this particular child did.

There obviously ARE cases in which abused children have been the subject of investigations into false abduction scenarios. I'm aware of that. However, in this case, I can't see anything to support that this was the case.

There is simply no significant evidence to support what is alleged to have happened to this child.

On the other hand, there IS evidence that the media turned against the Ciprianos once the Faro boys arrived in Portimão.


Pwhat changed was the mccann involvement of Correia via Metardo3, and we know who employed them.
The McCanns were solely responsible for their childcare arrangements and there is no one else to blame.

S and S, two more amateurs making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.

Offline Carana

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2015, 08:46:01 PM »

Pwhat changed was the mccann involvement of Correia via Metardo3, and we know who employed them.

The national media frenzy against the Ciprianos was in 2004 / 2005. The police disciplinary sanction against Cristovão (and presumably the one concerning Amaral) also date back to 2005.

The T9 hadn't even set foot in the country by then.

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2015, 10:57:17 PM »
The national media frenzy against the Ciprianos was in 2004 / 2005. The police disciplinary sanction against Cristovão (and presumably the one concerning Amaral) also date back to 2005.

The T9 hadn't even set foot in the country by then.

Not sure what point you're trying to make Carana. Even if there was a media frenzy in 2004/2005, and evidence of this has yet to be posted, are you saying the judge's were swayed by that frenzy ?
'The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants.
'There is therefore a significant, and not merely a semantic difference, between the legally admissible foundations of the archive ruling.
'It doesn't therefore seem acceptable that the ruling, based on the insufficiency of evidence, should be equated to proof of innocence.'

Offline davel

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2015, 08:18:15 AM »
Not sure what point you're trying to make Carana. Even if there was a media frenzy in 2004/2005, and evidence of this has yet to be posted, are you saying the judge's were swayed by that frenzy ?

The judges in the cipriano case were in a very difficult position. Several serving police officers had claimed that both the ciprianos had voluntarily confessed. A not guilty verdict would be calling a whole group of PJ officers liars...pervertors of course of justice...torturers...when they had little evidence at the time to make this call.
later all those accusations turned out to be true

it make you question the Portuguese justice system...even though it was proved at  a later date that the pj officers involved were a bunch of lying torturers the conviction was allowed to stand
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 08:24:19 AM by davel »
as experienced investigators...based on the evidence...we believe Madeleine McCann was removed from the apartment by a stranger....DCI Redwood...Scotland Yard

Neither the McCanns nor their friend are persons of interest or suspects

If civil questions are being asked can we have the courtesy to provide civil answers.

Online stephen25000

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2015, 08:31:26 AM »
The judges in the cipriano case were in a very difficult position. Several serving police officers had claimed that both the ciprianos had voluntarily confessed. A not guilty verdict would be calling a whole group of PJ officers liars...pervertors of course of justice...torturers...when they had little evidence at the time to make this call.
later all those accusations turned out to be true

it make you question the Portuguese justice system...even though it was proved at  a later date that the pj officers involved were a bunch of lying torturers the conviction was allowed to stand

So yet again accusations fly.

Now which officers carried out torture dave ?

Bearing in mind, it is based on the 'evidence' of the convicted liar and murderer Cipriano.

and of course you are only interested in the Cipriano case, because of Amaral.
The McCanns were solely responsible for their childcare arrangements and there is no one else to blame.

S and S, two more amateurs making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.

Online ferryman

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2015, 08:43:57 AM »
The judges in the cipriano case were in a very difficult position. Several serving police officers had claimed that both the ciprianos had voluntarily confessed. A not guilty verdict would be calling a whole group of PJ officers liars...pervertors of course of justice...torturers...when they had little evidence at the time to make this call.
later all those accusations turned out to be true

it make you question the Portuguese justice system...even though it was proved at  a later date that the pj officers involved were a bunch of lying torturers the conviction was allowed to stand

That is the most alarming aspect of the whole Cipriano conviction, that and the fact that Leonor's sentence was actually prolonged slightly because she was (later) deemed not to have got her story entirely straight while being tortured to a point of near blindness with a bag over her head ...
Why is Victoria Derbybshire persona non grata on this board?

Online stephen25000

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2015, 08:47:01 AM »
That is the most alarming aspect of the whole Cipriano conviction, that and the fact that Leonor's sentence was actually prolonged slightly because she was (later) deemed not to have got her story entirely straight while being tortured to a point of near blindness with a bag over her head ...

Ah the support of a murderer again.

Now which officers 'tortured' her ferryman ?
The McCanns were solely responsible for their childcare arrangements and there is no one else to blame.

S and S, two more amateurs making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.

Offline Alfie

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2015, 09:13:40 AM »
That is the most alarming aspect of the whole Cipriano conviction, that and the fact that Leonor's sentence was actually prolonged slightly because she was (later) deemed not to have got her story entirely straight while being tortured to a point of near blindness with a bag over her head ...
It's also odd that despite the fact that the judge found that she had been tortured no one faced prosecution for this offence  and consequently no McCann sceptic will accept that she was tortured.
Only asking questions....

Offline John

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2015, 09:14:48 AM »
I don't find that "common experience" that children normally get home safely is evidence that this particular child did.

There obviously ARE cases in which abused children have been the subject of investigations into false abduction scenarios. I'm aware of that. However, in this case, I can't see anything to support that this was the case.

There is simply no significant evidence to support what is alleged to have happened to this child.

On the other hand, there IS evidence that the media turned against the Ciprianos once the Faro boys arrived in Portimão.

Conveniently you ignored the fact that the missing girls shoes were found at home as were the items she purchased from the shop shortly before disappearing.  As if this wasn't enough, she was seen walking home by a female neighbour who saw her from her window vantage point. 
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 09:18:07 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.