Author Topic: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?  (Read 7288 times)

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Offline Carana

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #165 on: July 15, 2015, 08:38:34 PM »
(With thanks to Joana / Astro for translation)
On the other hand, the actions that are part of the reconstitution act are compatible with the blood traces that were collected in the living room (it should be noted that the reconstitution takes place in the living room), as a result of the search and apprehension act that was carried out on the 22th of September 2004 (cfr. pages 173 and 233 and following), which mentions that traces were collected on the floor, near the entrance door, inside and outside, near the interior electrical switch on the right hand side of the entrance door, near the entrance on the left hand side of the sofa, on a pair of trainers belonging to MM [Leandro] Silva that were located between the sofas, on a mop (handle) and its bucket.

These traces, according to forensics exams, are of human blood and of human and animal blood (cfr. page 235), and although insufficient to establish whom they belong to through the DNA (pages 1780 and following), they reveal that something terrible happened in that living room, something that originated the existence of human blood on the floor and on the walls, which was cleaned with a mop and a bucket; the blood that was on the mop was located on the handle, revealing that the person who used the mop had in turn his or her hands dirty with blood. Therefore, the traces that were collected in the living room reinforce the reliability of the reconstitution.



Someone has to explain to me, in words of one syllable or less, how the smoking gun forensic evidence of the alleged massacre amounted to anything more than a nicked finger chopping up a piece of meat, someone mopping it up and throwing the bucket of water out of the door, possibly nine days after the disappearance in a home in which everyone continued to live (i.e., an average household day prior to the day on which the PJ boys turned up with their torch - depending on mealtimes and when the PJ actually turned up).

Alternatively, explain to me how the results prove the macabre alleged events.


This "forensic" appreciation of the state of the living-room took place on 22 September. João's "reconstruction" (unless a different reliable source shows otherwise) took place on 7 October, i.e. weeks before the "voluntary" filmed "reconstruction".

But somehow, this timeline gets turned on its head:

Therefore, the traces that were collected in the living room reinforce the reliability of the reconstitution.

Hmmm?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 09:40:08 PM by Carana »

Offline Carana

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #166 on: July 15, 2015, 09:36:13 PM »
Anna had a good post somewhere on the timeline between when she is supposed to have got back home and the gory rest of it.

I can't find it for the moment...

Offline Anna

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #167 on: July 15, 2015, 09:45:34 PM »
Anna had a good post somewhere on the timeline between when she is supposed to have got back home and the gory rest of it.

I can't find it for the moment...

Its not this one of mine is it?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2853.msg222125#msg222125
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
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Offline Carana

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #169 on: July 16, 2015, 08:54:22 AM »
Its not this one of mine is it?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2853.msg222125#msg222125

In that timeline, you missed out that they were supposed to have been having wild sex at the time ;)

Offline Carana

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #170 on: July 16, 2015, 09:23:28 AM »
Especially when they would have passed officers from the GNR on fair duty anyway when supposedly out searching. The 'no credit on the mobile phone' story just doesn't hold water either, had her daughter really have gone missing she only had to ask someone to phone the police for her.  Also, if Joana had really gone missing why weren't the immediate neighbours alerted to join the search?  Convenient too that Leonor took Leandro out searching and left João in the house with the babies.

From the witness testimonies, my impression is that she was more perplexed that night. She certainly wasn't running around screaming that she'd been abducted. In the morning several people noted that she was very upset and had been crying. Joana had been staying a few days in the run-up to the birthday bash with Leadnro's parents, and had been due to stay an extra day. She may have half-assumed that there'd been a mix-up in communication as to where she was supposed to spend the night - and when they were able to make calls later that night and found that she wasn't there, it dawned on her that something was seriously wrong.

Offline Carana

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #171 on: July 16, 2015, 09:50:05 AM »
Joao and Leonor's mother was not called to testify in the original trial. Neither was a statement taken.
2009 appeal was judged and refused in april 2009. It was requested by Marcos C. It was denied because of his method used to get a statement of guilt from Joao.

 It was the torture trial that she got an extra penalty for.
They said she was lying because she got the colour of the carrier bag wrong and the material of the tube they were hitting her with. Since torture had already been accepted as having occurred. She should have been acquitted IMO

It's justice upside down. The torture saga should have been settled before the murder trial.

If the reason that they were advised not to take the stand was to avoid having their "confessions" read out as evidence, then they could have taken the stand as the confessions would have been null and void, presumably.

The only other reason that I can think of is that by the time of the trial they'd been set against each other, each convinced that the other was responsible for whatever they believed had happened to her and they may have screwed up in court and blamed each other. However, some gentle pre-trial preparation to just tell the truth and calm their nerves in the face of the daunting prospect of court could have been helpful.

Sadly, even if they'd been acquitted, the investigation into the disappearance wouldn't have been reopened until new evidence happened to waft onto a PJ desk... and even then there'd have been no guarantee that it didn't go into the vertical filing system, barring a body showing up.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 01:44:55 PM by Carana »

Offline Anna

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #172 on: July 16, 2015, 01:07:10 PM »
In that timeline, you missed out that they were supposed to have been having wild sex at the time ;)

Yes I did miss that, because I believe that it was no more than media propaganda and found to be not proved in court.

You might like this Carana. Better than some of the harsh photos of her
Leonor on TV 2004
Rather pretty and wearing that black top that so enraged Amaral.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #173 on: July 16, 2015, 02:35:54 PM »
Ahhh. Never wear a black top in a public appeal, even if you wear one twice a week. Or a dark green one that might be mistaken for black. Or red trousers. Secret message, there.

Don't wear yellow or mid-green, either - as that might be a cunning ploy to trick the public into thinking that you are hopeful. Nor white - very cunning.

Pink or blue might not be a good idea, either.

Orange and purple, if unfashionable, might make you seem to be a social misfit.

Best go naked. At least no one can judge you guilty on the basis of your clothes.

A bit tongue in cheek, but I would never have thought that a seasoned senior officer would have thought that wearing a black top for an appeal would be a sign of guilt. Unfortunately, it's true.


A testemunha CC3 , coordenador de investigação criminal da P.J., declarou que começaram a investigar o caso passados 9 dias do desaparecimento da CC, sendo que o caso estava classificado como crime de sequestro/rapto. Tomou conhecimento das declarações prestadas na GNR e visionou as entrevistas televisivas, estranhando logo a postura da mãe, que vestia de preto e parecia estar a mentir, sendo que falava da filha no passado.


He also said that the other sign was that she referred to her in the past tense. According to Barro da Costa, she replied in the past tense when media questions were addressed in the past tense.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 02:49:21 PM by Carana »

Offline Anna

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #174 on: July 21, 2015, 12:21:35 AM »
Here you can see Leandro
RTP: 3rd Annivesary of disappearance of Joana Cipriano

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline sadie

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Re: Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?
« Reply #175 on: July 25, 2015, 12:57:37 AM »
Conveniently you ignored the fact that the missing girls shoes were found at home as were the items she purchased from the shop shortly before disappearing.  As if this wasn't enough, she was seen walking home by a female neighbour who saw her from her window vantage point.

She was seen walking up the steps at the church.  That is three roads away and almost 250 metres distant.


Most people would NOT call that a neighbour, BUT instead a villager
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 01:15:45 AM by Admin »
If you want to know the real facts read :  http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page

Hitler is credited with saying "Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth.
= "Propaganda personified."