Author Topic: More Blue forum BS about the moderator  (Read 4248 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2015, 08:41:32 PM »
First of all I was not suggesting that the "Murder Weapon" is what Jeapes spotted in the window. I was putting forward a theory that two rifles were used. One being left by the window while the other remain on Shelia

1) The only other rifle at the house was a pellet gun.  None of the victims suffered any pellet wounds so even if the pellet gun had been sitting in the boxroom window it was unrelated to the murders.

2) All 25 casings were tied to the Anschutz to the exclusion of other weapons.  The defense expert was free to examine them and failed to contest the assessment.

3) All the wounds were made by 22LR bullets, a large fragment was recovered from every bullet except 1 that killed Nicholas.  Most of them were conclusively tied to the Anschutz, the ones too damaged still were tied by the casing as well as the fact there were no other 22LR rifles at the scene. The defense experts were free to examine the bullets and did not contest they were all fired by the Anschutz. 

The medical evidence and ballistic evidence determines whether more than one weapon was used not the fact other weapons were at the scene.  If the medical and ballistic evidence showed the air rifle or shotguns at the scene were also used then that would be one thing but they do not.


There is an eyewitness account by the police of a damaged rifle being found in the kitchen with red paint on the barrel (see transcipts of Davidson COLP interview)

I already pointed out you are wrong about this. He didn't say anything about witnessing a gun downstairs with paint on the barrel. He though that they found red paint on the shotgun found downstairs that they seized. They sized one of the shotguns not just the Anschutz.  The shotgun and rifle were both fingerprinted. He overheard them say red paint was on a weapon and didn't know they meant on the moderator.  He assumed they meant directly on a weapon and since he personally handled the Anschutz and knew it has no paint on it he assumed they meant on the shotgun collected downstairs.

Where does it say he personally witnessed red paint on a barrel of a weapon found downstairs?



He is giving them his erroneous recollection of things, his erroneous recollection was they told him red paint was found on the barrel of the weapon they collected downstairs.  He then erroneously told the that he was there when the paint samples were taken by saying Cook turned them over to him at the scene where he logged them in.  COLP then provided him with his pocketbook showing he was off duty at the time and not with them and the other documents he filled out subsequently were shown.  He wound up admitting he screwed up he was handed the samples at a later time and at this later time filled out the paperwork.  It was 6 years late rhis memory was foggy he handled a lot of cases in between. 
 


On august 7th Jeremy told police there was an Anshutz semi auto and a another .22 rifle (possibly bolt action) inside the house. AP kept his Bruno .22 bolt action on the farm. But denies it was there during the murders however his accounts are very contradictory.

I consider two rifle theory a possibility I am not saying its a fact. If you think I thought the rifle Jeapes spotted was the same one on Shelia and in the window? come on man I know you think I have half a brain but I am not that stupid.

Jeremy either lied to police or he was unaware that Anthony took his rifle with him.  Anthony's rifle was not taken by the police because it wasn't at the scene.  Nor did the family find his rifle because it wasn't there, he took it with him.  Whether Jeapes actually saw something or not matters not because all 25 shots were from the Anschutz.  The only weapons there in any event aside from the Anschutz was the air rifle and several shotguns. no one has ever explained where the air rifle was but it makes little difference since no one was shot with a pellet.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 05:42:02 PM by John »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline David1819

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2016, 05:13:51 AM »
I already pointed out you are wrong about this. He didn't say anything about witnessing a gun downstairs with paint on the barrel. He though that they found red paint on the shotgun found downstairs that they seized. They sized one of the shotguns not just the Anschutz.  The shotgun and rifle were both fingerprinted. He overheard them say red paint was on a weapon and didn't know they meant on the moderator.  He assumed they meant directly on a weapon and since he personally handled the Anschutz and knew it has no paint on it he assumed they meant on the shotgun collected downstairs.

Where does it say he personally witnessed red paint on a barrel of a weapon found downstairs?



He is giving them his erroneous recollection of things, his erroneous recollection was they told him red paint was found on the barrel of the weapon they collected downstairs.  He then erroneously told the that he was there when the paint samples were taken by saying Cook turned them over to him at the scene where he logged them in.  COLP then provided him with his pocketbook showing he was off duty at the time and not with them and the other documents he filled out subsequently were shown.  He wound up admitting he screwed up he was handed the samples at a later time and at this later time filled out the paperwork.  It was 6 years late rhis memory was foggy he handled a lot of cases in between. 

Of course its entirely possible it can be an innocent mistake and you could be right. But there are far to many mistakes in this case it gets me concerned.

The so called erroneous recollection continues further


Is this a mistake like the mistake of AAC Simpson saying they found a silencer on august 7th?
Is this a mistake like the mistake of seeing a woman in the downstairs kitchen?
Is this a mistake like the mistake of getting the times wrong on the emergency call logs?
Is this a mistake like the mistake of writing daughter gone berserk instead of writing sister?
Is this a mistake like the mistake of destroying the exhibits in 1996?

There are more I could list. Yes they could all well be innocent errors but I find it rather difficult to accept 100%

« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 05:47:28 PM by John »

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2016, 08:10:41 PM »
Of course its entirely possible it can be an innocent mistake and you could be right. But there are far to many mistakes in this case it gets me concerned.

The so called erroneous recollection continues further


Is this a mistake like the mistake of AAC Simpson saying they found a silencer on august 7th?
Is this a mistake like the mistake of seeing a woman in the downstairs kitchen?
Is this a mistake like the mistake of getting the times wrong on the emergency call logs?
Is this a mistake like the mistake of writing daughter gone berserk instead of writing sister?
Is this a mistake like the mistake of destroying the exhibits in 1996?

There are more I could list. Yes they could all well be innocent errors but I find it rather difficult to accept 100%

You and others on blue post countless wrong claims. That you post such claims doesn't prove the claims are true.  Simpson would have to go read the records to make sure he was speaking accurately but didn't make sure.  He wasn't a witness so his error is wholly meaningless.  So are the other things you cite.  You have nothing by way of evidence that actually supports anything at all untoward occurred.  There is not a single case without typos and other innocent errors such prove nothing at all.

Peopel keeping logs misunderstand information fed to the all the time even 911 operators sometimes don't understand the caller correctly that doesn't mean squat they are not eyewitnesses to anything.  No rational person believe there was an additional body in the kitchen all rational people recognize all the other 4 victims were lying roughly where they died. To try pretending maybe another body was in the kitchen just takes away your credibility and says you made up your mind about this case guided solely by bias and choose to opportunistically grab any BS you can to try to justify your position as opposed to selecting legitimate things to form your opinion around and thus be able to actually present a rational well supported position.

Reciting a laundry list of what have been proven as errors amounts to nothing. A single thing that is not an error but evidence of a conspiracy is worth ore than a million meaningless errors.  But no defenders have come up with such and thus many will simply go to the worthless laundry list of errors which COLP determined were meaningless, most of Jeremy's lawyers recognized were meaningless, the CCRC and Court of Appeals recognize are meaningless.  only some ignorant members of the public are fooled into believing such errors have any significance but such people have no sway over anything that happens so it's quite useless to Jeremy.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 05:48:26 PM by John »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2016, 03:00:39 AM »
David:
"The photographs of Shelia that Jeremy sent to McDonnell in 1992 it was assumed those pictures to be of Sheila as she was found (unaltered), Hence McDonnel came to the conclusion that Shelia was murdered based on the blood patterns on the carpet and the circumstances around the bible. However we now have police interview/notes saying that the crime scene photos of Shelia are different to how they first found her. This evidence came to light not long ago and McDonnell did not know this at the time in 1992 and if he did his conclusions would have been different."

Is there police notes that say the body was different than when police saw her?  Nope what the notes ACTUALLY indicated is that out of all the police who saw her body, a couple initially thought maybe something was different but ultimately decided that nothing was different and that the photos were indeed accurate.   Seems that David's cartoon about living in denial applies to him not those he aims it at. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 05:49:21 PM by John »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2016, 05:07:54 PM »
David:
"The photographs of Shelia that Jeremy sent to McDonnell in 1992 it was assumed those pictures to be of Sheila as she was found (unaltered), Hence McDonnel came to the conclusion that Shelia was murdered based on the blood patterns on the carpet and the circumstances around the bible. However we now have police interview/notes saying that the crime scene photos of Shelia are different to how they first found her. This evidence came to light not long ago and McDonnell did not know this at the time in 1992 and if he did his conclusions would have been different."

Is there police notes that say the body was different than when police saw her?  Nope what the notes ACTUALLY indicated is that out of all the police who saw her body, a couple initially thought maybe something was different but ultimately decided that nothing was different and that the photos were indeed accurate.   Seems that David's cartoon about living in denial applies to him not those he aims it at.

I thought Herb MacDonell (HM) based his findings on the rifle without the silencer but I recall Myster said some misunderstanding occurred and HM based his findings on a different rifle!?

According to Michael Gradwell, former Detective Superintendent, the photos show SC hand was in fact moved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M&feature=youtu.be&t=6m50s

We know SC's hand was moved as various police officers confirm this was done to enable DC Bird to photograph some blood under her wrist.

Now I'm going to put my tin hat on for this but what about Crispy?  Did he/she interfere with the SoC?  I've never owned a dog so don't know much about them but what are they instinctively likely do in such a SoC?  I don't believe he/she was foresnically analysed for GSR or blood?

« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 05:49:51 PM by John »
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline David1819

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2016, 07:02:43 PM »
According to Michael Gradwell, former Detective Superintendent, the photos show SC hand was in fact moved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M&feature=youtu.be&t=6m50s

We know SC's hand was moved as various police officers confirm this was done to enable DC Bird to photograph some blood under her wrist.



Yes this evident in both the police notes of the interview and the conclusions DS Benard makes in his correspondence to DS Ainsley. (See attached)

Scipio now does his classic travesty of using evidence if and when it suits him, comes up with his own opinions of what the evidence is supposed to mean expecting others to take it as fact.

Did Scipio prove the police notes and letters are wrong? No as usual just gives his opinion hoping it will be accepted as a fact. Does Scipio speak for the Officers who saw Sheila's body with there own eyes? No!  Does Scipio speak for the Officers who took part in the meeting were the notes were produced? No!

Should people listen to Scipio's opinions and assumptions? No


Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2016, 09:19:52 PM »
Yes this evident in both the police notes of the interview and the conclusions DS Benard makes in his correspondence to DS Ainsley. (See attached)

Scipio now does his classic travesty of using evidence if and when it suits him, comes up with his own opinions of what the evidence is supposed to mean expecting others to take it as fact.

Did Scipio prove the police notes and letters are wrong? No as usual just gives his opinion hoping it will be accepted as a fact. Does Scipio speak for the Officers who saw Sheila's body with there own eyes? No!  Does Scipio speak for the Officers who took part in the meeting were the notes were produced? No!

Should people listen to Scipio's opinions and assumptions? No

The ones making pathetic assumptions is you not me.

We already know that police moved her hand to take additional photos with her hand moved.  Anyone not blind knows they did that.  They submitted photos before moving her and after at trial and discussed it.  How does that establish that they moved her before the initial photo was taken?  It doesn't!  You are much less intelligent than you think you are- the classic legend in his own mind.

As for the COLP note posted all it says it to Query which means to ask Collins, Delgado, DS Jones, Miller and Cook.  6 years later Adams thought the head was closer than he remembered, could not recall anything about the gun, wondered if the angle of her head was different and he thought the Bible had been by her waste because someone had told him at the time they felt she was reading it then put it down in which case would have put it by her waist.

Did the other officers tell COLP the photos were not how she was when they saw her?  No.

Your smoking gun falls apart totally as it always does because you spout lies and distort evidence to try to pretend it proves something it doesn't.
 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2016, 09:33:36 PM »
I thought Herb MacDonell (HM) based his findings on the rifle without the silencer but I recall Myster said some misunderstanding occurred and HM based his findings on a different rifle!?

According to Michael Gradwell, former Detective Superintendent, the photos show SC hand was in fact moved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M&feature=youtu.be&t=6m50s

We know SC's hand was moved as various police officers confirm this was done to enable DC Bird to photograph some blood under her wrist.

Now I'm going to put my tin hat on for this but what about Crispy?  Did he/she interfere with the SoC?  I've never owned a dog so don't know much about them but what are they instinctively likely do in such a SoC?  I don't believe he/she was foresnically analysed for GSR or blood?

MacDonell made a number of findings.  1 finding was based on erroneous information that being he was told the murder weapon was found found in a different room than her body.

The other findings were based on reading the blood staining.  Mike's lies about the body being significantly moved and relocated are totally bogus.  David latched onto these with his sole evidence being the Adams telling COLP 6 years later she looks different than he remembered but he could not say for sure given the passage of time so they should query others.  He didn't even recall the gun being on her so his recollection isn't worth crap.

As you can see he saw the photos that illustrated police moved her arm to show the staining on her dress so David was wrong as usual in suggesting he didn't know:






PS others totally disagreed that she was lying down when shot and pointed to the blood on her gown as evidence she wasn't lying down when shot. He gave varied excuses of rushing and not being given much time and changed his opinion in that regard. 


 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 09:42:15 PM by scipio_usmc »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2016, 09:32:54 AM »
Gentleman

Can we keep it civil please.  TY
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 05:51:22 PM by John »
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2016, 05:15:25 PM »
MacDonell made a number of findings.  1 finding was based on erroneous information that being he was told the murder weapon was found found in a different room than her body.

The other findings were based on reading the blood staining.  Mike's lies about the body being significantly moved and relocated are totally bogus.  David latched onto these with his sole evidence being the Adams telling COLP 6 years later she looks different than he remembered but he could not say for sure given the passage of time so they should query others.  He didn't even recall the gun being on her so his recollection isn't worth crap.

As you can see he saw the photos that illustrated police moved her arm to show the staining on her dress so David was wrong as usual in suggesting he didn't know:






PS others totally disagreed that she was lying down when shot and pointed to the blood on her gown as evidence she wasn't lying down when shot. He gave varied excuses of rushing and not being given much time and changed his opinion in that regard.

Thanks Scipio.  It sounds very simplistic?  As though he knocked it up during a 10 min tea-break?  Not what I would expect from a world class forensic scientist?  I think it's pretty old so maybe it represents the standards at the time?  His conclusions seem to be based on the fact SC couldn't have reached the trigger with the silencer attached?
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Myster

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2016, 05:29:10 PM »
Thanks Scipio.  It sounds very simplistic?  As though he knocked it up during a 10 min tea-break?  Not what I would expect from a world class forensic scientist?  I think it's pretty old so maybe it represents the standards at the time?  His conclusions seem to be based on the fact SC couldn't have reached the trigger with the silencer attached?

1992... http://watchingyouwatchingyme-steelmagnolia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/bamber-report-from-prof-herbert-leon.html
‘Somebody in this case is lying, and lying their heads off.’ Anthony Arlidge QC, closing speech at the Bamber trial, 22 October 1986

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2016, 05:35:35 PM »
The police officers that observed SC in situ, along with Dr Craig, had literally hundreds of years experience between them.  If there was anything staring them in the face I struggle to see how they overlooked this?  I think they kept an open mind to some degree hence after identifying all 5 victims at SoC they continued to search WHF with caution until all rooms including the attic and cellar (I think) had been searched.

The prosecution case against JB at trial didn't involve SC's body/the bible being moved post death.  And at JB's 2002 appeal hearing the appeal court judges rejected Dr Ismail's testimony to this effect. 
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2016, 05:46:21 PM »
1992... http://watchingyouwatchingyme-steelmagnolia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/bamber-report-from-prof-herbert-leon.html

But would JB seek out a world class expert knowing he was guilty? 

Wilkes' book states the report was prepared on a limited budget and was a sort of preliminary indicative report with further funding required for the full monty.  Were JB's solicitors involved or was it case of JB sending HM info/photos and perhaps some of it getting lost in translation so to speak? 

If JB's case gets to CoA again, or even a retrial, the good news is that he will be eligible for funding and expert testimony in all this sort of thing will be brought to the fore.
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2016, 08:42:03 PM »
Thanks Scipio.  It sounds very simplistic?  As though he knocked it up during a 10 min tea-break?  Not what I would expect from a world class forensic scientist?  I think it's pretty old so maybe it represents the standards at the time?  His conclusions seem to be based on the fact SC couldn't have reached the trigger with the silencer attached?

That was exactly the excuse he used- not having much time to spend.  Note how he said she was shot lying down because the blood moved sideways from her mouth.  If she was shot lying down then the blood would not have been able to leak down her arm/breast. So he felt foolish and later admitted she was seated when shot. He said her felt her body was disturbed after death and this caused the change in blood flow so he ended up supporting her being killed and then her body moved.  He gave up on the erroneous claim the gun was found in another room when he was informed that was not the case.  This make sit all the more stupid for people that support Jeremy to claim the murder weapon was not on her body or even near it that would establish she was killed.

One of his reasons for her being killed was she would not be able to pull the trigger with the moderator attached.    The nonfatal wound was at nearly a 90 degree angle that sure as hell would not be possible. Whether she could or not though is not very significant since it wasn't attached when her body was found and dead people can't go put it away. Moderator used equals murders no matter how you slice it. That is why the defense has to prove it wasn't used in order to get him a new trial.  There is no conceivable way for the defense to try to establish that though.  That is why instead they do red herrings but it is extraordinarily rare that could ever work on an Appeals Court.   
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: More Blue forum BS about the moderator
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2016, 04:49:18 PM »
On blue David loves to attack me since I am not there to defend myself.  He posts garbage like this:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7282.225.html

It seems to apply to him though because after it is prove he has posted rubbish- like the rubbish claim that evidence proves police moved her body before taking the initial photos he runs and hides on blue because he has lost the debate here.

Everytime he posts a video or cartoon mocking me or anyone else it is simply him projecting his flaws onto us they always apply to him.

The argument that because they moved her hand and took photos this means they moved her before taking the first set of photos is the most illogical argument I ever heard.  Worse he claims MacDonnell was unaware of that movements even though he makes clear he saw both sets of photos.

The argument that Adams saying to query the others about whether the body was moved doesn't prove it was moved, he admitted his memory was foggy.  None of those that Adams suggester COLP query told COLP the photos did not reflect how they saw Sheila.  David adopts Mike's absurd claims then when proven wrong runs to blue and posts childish attacks like a big baby.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 10:34:02 PM by Angelo222 »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli