Author Topic: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates  (Read 28893 times)

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Offline mrswah

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1470 on: March 19, 2017, 08:26:17 PM »
I find your conspiracy speculations extremely worrying Leonora.  Simon Hall had no contact with the students or the Bristol based Innocence Project after his prison confession.  Fact is he did confess and he did commit suicide alone in his cell after several previous failed attempts so let's not stir up any more silliness.

The same applies to your claim suggesting Joanna Yeates was not killed in her flat.  Vincent Tabak tells a different story and unless you have very strong evidence to the contrary I suggest you stop posting personal opinion as fact.

I would have thought that the fact that no forensic evidence pointing to Vincent Tabak was found in Joanna's flat is a very strong indication that he did not kill her there, and was , very likely never there at all. If VT did kill Joanna, he did it somewhere else. If Joanna was killed in her flat, someone other than VT killed her.

My only reason for mentioning Simon Hall was to show that it is possible for somebody to protest innocence and then to protest guilt.

Offline Leonora

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1471 on: March 19, 2017, 08:56:39 PM »
Leonora... I do not wish to be disrespectful, but I can't see people who we wish to see the thread taking us seriously if we talk about things that cannot clearly be substanciated..

And wild notions which I find difficult to take on board personally, will not help discover the truth about the case.... Or more to the point get NEW readers to also question what happened to Dr Vincent Tabak... 

You would also need the Yeates family to be happy with this, and I can't see how they would or how Tanja would be happy to lose him...

I just like to see as much info in black and white, with evidence to support it... or video's to support it... maybe you are privy to information no-one else is.... but unless you link it or attach it... People will question the validity of what you are saying... And with very few people even ready to accept that Dr Vincent Tabak maybe innocent, the average Joe Bloggs will no take it seriously... And they will react like the did before  the trial had completed...

I question the difficulty people have had in communicating with Dr Vincent Tabak... But him being sent back to Holland if far more likely than him being asked to throw his life away on a lie to benefit the establishment...

I am not saying strange things do not occur, but find the paper trail or photo evidence to prove some of the things that you think may have happened.... As I say, this is only my opinion...

Why have things like... evidence etc not been sealed for 70 years, like they were in the Dr David Kelly inquiry.(Hutton)
Floundering is not your normal posting style, but for once it is a fair description. This entire case was so weird that no one would believe it if it hadn't been reported in such detail by such reputable news media. Try to summarise the facts of the case to someone who was overseas when it was going on, and they will think you are trying to have them on.

I base my arguments entirely on things that can and have been substantiated. There is nothing up my sleeve. You yourself were not backward in analysing the inexplicable behaviour of VT's defence team before and during his trial. If you were in the dock, you would not be satisfied for one moment with Mr. Clegg's performance, so why do you think VT didn't sack his legal team and go to a different firm entirely? If you have a better explanation, then let us hear it, but the known facts indicate that VT was sufficiently satisfied to continue with the same two law firms.

Although the Yeates family are obliged to say the things in public that the tabloid newspapers want to hear them say, they of all people cannot fail to be struck by the extreme contradictions and anomalies in the case - and presumably they are also aware of some key facts of which we know nothing. So it would be presumptious and indeed unfair to invoke as arguments the feelings that you imagine they might have. On solid, well substantiated grounds, you yourself don't believe that VT killed Joanna, so you too must believe that someone else killed her. But her family are also in a position to pursue the same line of reasoning as you have done.

Tanja has been almost totally invisible, but, as a lawyer's daughter close to the defendant, she too must be presumed to be capable of following the same line of reasoning as well.

There is no such thing as a "wild notion" in connection with this case. It is the players themselves whose behaviour has been bizarre, whereas we are free to try to make sense of the facts. And it is the behaviour of VT and his lawyers in court that is the most convincing evidence that the lawyers must have secured a very big, very secret, very satisfactory deal for their client. What else could that be than the one I have deduced?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 08:59:21 PM by Leonora »

Offline jixy

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1472 on: March 20, 2017, 06:47:20 AM »
that could all be based on the all round acceptance of guilt...with the added bonus of actually speaking to Tabak unlike the people who speculate about conspiracy theories and ignore anything that confirms his guilt!
smoke and mirrors

Offline Nine.. Again

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1473 on: March 20, 2017, 12:24:27 PM »
Whether I believe Dr Vincent Tabak Innocent or not, I cannot change what has happened, I believed that there were people who maybe could, but I seem to be mistaken on that score...

Like many people whom are Innocent in prison, Dr Vincent Tabak will have to remain there until either he has served his sentence or someone who has the power and ability can change his circumstances... I for one am not that person...( I do not have the contacts)..


As I say... I will flounder on my own......

And stay with the belief that Dr Vincent Tabak is Innocent!!!!!!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 12:51:29 PM by John »

Offline Leonora

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1474 on: March 20, 2017, 01:17:51 PM »
Whether I believe Dr Vincent Tabak Innocent or not, I cannot change what has happened, I believed that there were people who maybe could, but I seem to be mistaken on that score...

Can you explain why Vincent Tabak remained passive in the light of his Counsel's extraordinary cross-examination of the so-called chaplain and the DNA witness, and his extraordinary failure to cross-examine and discredit the computer analyst?

Can you explain why he remained passive in the face of his own Counsel's abusive remarks about his own character? - Or why he didn't sack his lawyers, considering that their most obvious line of defence would have been to demonstrate that he was a nice quiet chap liked by his employer and his girlfriend, who had never done anything remotely criminal before?

Secret collusion between a prosecutor, a defence lawyer and a judge is apparently termed "a courtroom group" in the USA. On this thread, we have seen a great deal of evidence that serious collusion occurred. If you can find an alternative explanation for the behaviour of the defence and the judge, then you should be posting it, instead of throwing in the towel.

If Vincent Tabak wasn't expecting a big reward for remaining passive throughout most of the trial, and then putting on a very demanding performance for two days in the witness box, knowing well that this could only lead to a guilty verdict, then you should be posting an alternative explanation than the one I believe to be the only rational conclusion.

We don't actually KNOW that he is innocent, but the trial has served only to hide the true course of events and leave the case unsolved. VT MAY have killed her, but so may the landlord, you, me, mrswah, or anyone else who cannot prove their alibi for the whole of that weekend. Why did Crosland & Co want him to apply for bail, then change their minds, and finally (according to Peter Brotherton) advise him to change his plea to "guilty"? If you think it really was VT on the video screens of the Old Bailey, why then did he plead guilty? The trial has revealed to us that the police had no more of a case against him than they had against the landlord. The jury must have been bewildered, because the prosecuting counsel never even mentioned the motive for the crime that they asserted was murder.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 12:52:24 PM by John »

Offline jixy

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1475 on: March 20, 2017, 01:26:10 PM »
im not sure how you work out the Jury would be bewildered as already commented earlier on this post he said he was guilty so he was going to be convicted of something!


You seriously expect anyone to believe they called on Tabak and said take the blame mate heres a few quid, put your life on the line, reputation your romance with your future wife and he just bought it? Someone in the same block of flats just rolled over and gave in for any sum of money?

for your idea to hold any weight whatsoever, Police Legal Team family etc would all have to be in on it

Oh and why then did they bring the indecent image charges? That put him right back in the spot light? Oh dont tell me double Bluff?

Maybe he didnt sack his legal team because he himself accepted his fate as  his apologies in court COULD suggest he was actually sorry for his actions

I have seen no evidence of collusion serious or otherwise and you dont have any prove it ever happened.
smoke and mirrors

Offline PaultheRed

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1476 on: March 20, 2017, 03:23:45 PM »
the moment  VT admitted to manslaughter , the whole case changed tact & he was going to be convicted of something clearly the small amount of evidence , the statements given and how the trail was handled led to the jury coming up with a guilty verdict open and shut case ....

Offline mrswah

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1477 on: March 21, 2017, 10:56:32 AM »
Can you explain why Vincent Tabak remained passive in the light of his Counsel's extraordinary cross-examination of the so-called chaplain and the DNA witness, and his extraordinary failure to cross-examine and discredit the computer analyst?

Can you explain why he remained passive in the face of his own Counsel's abusive remarks about his own character? - Or why he didn't sack his lawyers, considering that their most obvious line of defence would have been to demonstrate that he was a nice quiet chap liked by his employer and his girlfriend, who had never done anything remotely criminal before?

Secret collusion between a prosecutor, a defence lawyer and a judge is apparently termed "a courtroom group" in the USA. On this thread, we have seen a great deal of evidence that serious collusion occurred. If you can find an alternative explanation for the behaviour of the defence and the judge, then you should be posting it, instead of throwing in the towel.

If Vincent Tabak wasn't expecting a big reward for remaining passive throughout most of the trial, and then putting on a very demanding performance for two days in the witness box, knowing well that this could only lead to a guilty verdict, then you should be posting an alternative explanation than the one I believe to be the only rational conclusion.

We don't actually KNOW that he is innocent, but the trial has served only to hide the true course of events and leave the case unsolved. VT MAY have killed her, but so may the landlord, you, me, mrswah, or anyone else who cannot prove their alibi for the whole of that weekend. Why did Crosland & Co want him to apply for bail, then change their minds, and finally (according to Peter Brotherton) advise him to change his plea to "guilty"? If you think it really was VT on the video screens of the Old Bailey, why then did he plead guilty? The trial has revealed to us that the police had no more of a case against him than they had against the landlord. The jury must have been bewildered, because the prosecuting counsel never even mentioned the motive for the crime that they asserted was murder.


Well, it wasn't me, Leonora, and I don't know whether or not I have an alibi for the weekend in question----I haven't a clue what I was doing!!!

Perhaps a few of the jury were bewildered, I don't know, but I imagine most would have thought that if he had pled guilty, then he'd done it, and therefore it was a pretty easy jury to be on. If you examine all the old fora (Websleuths, Bowland Central, what is left of the Facebook one, and there are a number of others), this is what most people were thinking-----at first, many thought the police had made another mistake, then when he pled guilty, they just "knew" it was him.

Why didn't VT change his legal team?  Well,before the trial  he did, several times, as far as I recall---or, at least, somebody did it for him. But, some possible reasons:

He could be guilty.

He could be ill, broken down, without hope,and not want to talk to anyone.

He could be dead.

He could be in prison in Holland, and the public hasn't been told.

He may well not understand the criminal justice system in this country, and he may not have access to any help.


I will go for the second possibility, with a bit of the last thrown in.  Others will think differently, but no way do I believe that he would be party to any kind of behind the scenes deal  if that meant he had to separate from his family, girlfriend and friends. I doubt whether such deals exist anyway.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 12:55:06 PM by John »

Offline mrswah

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1478 on: March 21, 2017, 11:06:53 AM »
As for why VT's defence team didn't do a better job of defending him (and I agree they didn't)--------

legal aid money running out?

they thought it a waste of time, since he HAD pled guilty, so he was "going down" anyway?

They were overworked?

VT being uncooperative and not very forthcoming, or agreeing to anything put to him??

Who knows?   I actually find it puzzling that two of the most eminent barristers in the country took part in that trial at all. 

Offline Nine.. Again

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1479 on: March 23, 2017, 10:12:23 AM »
Don't you just hate it when links don't work any more..

Quote
Tabak killed Joanna after she screamed, court told | Western Morning ...
www.cornwalllive.com/tabak-killed-joanna-screamed-court-told/story.../story.html
18 Oct 2011 - Greg Reardon told how annoyance at returning to a messy flat turned ... Dan Blocker Kept This Hidden Throughout The Filming Of 'Bonanza'Definition ... wearing her white ski jacket as she walked with Mr Reardon through the ...


Why do they disappear????  The quote is from a search... 

Offline Nine.. Again

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1480 on: March 23, 2017, 10:15:23 AM »
Same with these two links......  these worked not too long ago!!

Quote
Greg Reardon - Greg Reardon The Free stuff extravaganza... | Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=442334202454&id...
Greg Reardon The Free stuff extravaganza continues! 07919 *****. Hit me up if you fancy any of this.... - Lange Comp 120 ski boots. Stiff and Size 9, seen ...
You've visited this page 2 times. Last visit: 28/02/17


Greg Reardon - Anybody want free skis? I've got two pairs... | Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=437339657454&id...
Greg Beardon to UWE Snowsports Racers. October 16, 2010 . Anybody want free skis? I've got two pairs of knackered-but-good-for-dryslope twintips.

Now this is the problem with the socks... They say size 5... but then they say that they were Greg's... now he is obviously size 9

« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 10:22:09 AM by Nine »

Offline John

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1481 on: March 23, 2017, 07:59:22 PM »
I suspect you are right and that there was little left for the defence to do when Tabak admitted his guilt.  As Paul posted already, his fate was sealed.  If he truly believes that it was an accidentaly killing rather than a premeditated one he can still appeal for a review through the CCRC.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 12:57:33 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Nine.. Again

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1482 on: March 24, 2017, 09:12:15 AM »
Seeing as we have been using the Leveson inquiry on this thread, I thought i'd add this link..

https://www.byline.com/column/3/article/1513

Offline Nine.. Again

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1483 on: March 25, 2017, 09:37:49 AM »
the moment  VT admitted to manslaughter , the whole case changed tact & he was going to be convicted of something clearly the small amount of evidence , the statements given and how the trail was handled led to the jury coming up with a guilty verdict open and shut case ....

I understand he made a plea..... but what if the evidence and timelines could prove otherwise and that he did not commit this crime?? for instance if he went to the CCRC.. would they just maybe want to get his sentence reduced  to Manslaughter.. or will they check all the evidence and timelines, videos etc....

Will they have access to what was in the stomach contents of Joanna Yeates.... With the pathologist saying her last meal was cheesy chips, I believe that was based on there NOT being anything in her stomach, rather than that being her last meal...  Was there evidence to support that cheesy chips were her last meal????

We already know they made an error with regards the alcohol content... because it was the content for urine and NOT blood as they had stated..

An empty stomach cannot give the time of death without all the other facts.... DCI Joe Goff stated that the SCREAMS told them when she died.... That was not established..,..

Will they be able to interview people.... CJ Tanja etc???


I really believe this case needs a proper look at.... the discrepencies are plenty... Greg's description of the flat has changed , originally he said he was annoyed that the flat was a mess.... Making believe he was expecting her to tidy up whilst he was away and maybe the pair were not so tidy... He then described it as though something had happened there..

The time she possibly has reached home... there is no proof of that...  The contradicting information about whether Joanna Yeates read her texts or not.....  If she didn't always read them or reply to them, then the last text from her male friend may not be as important for timeline as we believe.... she could have just not bothered... because we are not aware of the phone that Joanna Yeates owned we do not know whether or not she saw the reply on her phone as a notification and didn't bother replying... (parents say she didn't always reply)... so she may have seen the texts....

One of my major bug bares is why they charged Dr Vincent Tabak between the 16th Dec 2010 and the 26th Dec 2010... If they were so sure she died on the 17th December 2010 why charge him within a range of dates????







Offline John

Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
« Reply #1484 on: March 27, 2017, 01:02:20 PM »
I understand he made a plea..... but what if the evidence and timelines could prove otherwise and that he did not commit this crime?? for instance if he went to the CCRC.. would they just maybe want to get his sentence reduced  to Manslaughter.. or will they check all the evidence and timelines, videos etc....

Since VT admitted to killing Joanna and since it has not been determined that he was unfit to plead, he will not be able to appeal his conviction.  He can however appeal the level of that conviction ie manslaughter versus murder.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 01:06:14 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.