Author Topic: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.  (Read 4881 times)

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Offline ferryman

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2016, 08:26:06 PM »
A couple of points in respect of these latest reports. 

There is no reason to believe any item discovered in a tip some 25 years after Ben disappeared got there by sinister means.  South Yorkshire Police are being extremely coy in relation to their find which most probably was a toy and not clothing.  Children play in mounds of earth and sand all the time so in the absence of any real evidence this find is hardly significant.

The second point relates to the ending of the search and the announcement of a find.  Why announce anything and why now?  Why start a media frenzy at all?  One could be forgiven for thinking that SYP needed something to bring closure to this event and pointing the finger at some dead digger driver was all too convenient.  In fact, can anyone see a similarity with another case?

Kerry has, herself, identified the toy they found as Ben's.

I am inclined to agree that use of sniffer dogs might well have aided the search and I'm not sure why none was brought in.

But I think identification of the toy strongly suggests police are on the right track.

Obviously I feel dreadfully sorry for Kerry.

This is a fairly good article from The Telegraph

Quote
An eerie silence fell over a dusty patch of farmland on the Aegean island of Kos on Friday as five days of intensive efforts by British police to find the possible remains of missing toddler Ben Needham came to a jarring halt.

Mechanical diggers and Bobcat excavators lay idle and officers from South Yorkshire police left the site after the owner of the land demanded that the search immediately stop.

Four 1,500-year-old stone tombs were discovered by the British investigation on Thursday and the landowner, Stefanos Troumouhis, was worried that his land would be declared a protected archaeological site and he would be prevented from farming or developing it.

Three hours of intense negotiation ensued between police officers, local magistrates and Mr Troumouhis, who was eventually placated with the promise that the land would remain in his hands.

“I was told officially by the magistrate in Kos that we needed to leave the site. But I’m pleased to say we’re back up and running,” said Detective Inspector Jon Cousins, who is leading the search.

Ben Needham was just 21 months old when he vanished on the holiday island of Kos 25 years ago
Ben Needham was just 21 months old when he vanished CREDIT: HELPFINDBEN.CO.UK
Asked if he was confident that the operation would not be delayed again, he said: “Twenty-five years’ experience as a police officer has taught me to take each day as it comes. In an investigation of this magnitude, you are going to have issues coming from the blindside.”

Mr Troumouhis owns an olive grove adjacent to the farmhouse where Ben was playing when he disappeared on a hot day in July 1991.

The 21-month-old boy was in the care of his grandparents, Eddie and Christine Needham, because his mother, Kerry, who was 19 at the time, had gone to work in a nearby hotel.

The olive grove could be key to the search for Ben because it contains an area of organic decomposition that British experts have not yet been able to identify.

The legal challenge may only have caused a temporary delay in the operation, but it underlined the formidable judicial, forensic and practical challenges faced by the British team as they seek clues as to what exactly happened to Ben, whose family is from Sheffield.

Excavation begins in search of Ben Needham's bodyPlay! 01:09
Police, dressed in crisp blue shorts with dark baseball caps to ward off the intense autumn sunshine, have spent the past week raking through tonnes of bone-dry dust and soil that has been dug up from the property.

They are looking for bones and fragments of bone after a tip-off from an islander in May that Ben may have been accidentally crushed by a digger which was operating on the site, operated by a local builder, Konstantinos ‘Dino’ Barkas. If Mr Barkas did have anything to do with Ben’s death, he took his secret to the grave when he died last year of cirrhosis of the liver at the age of 62.

Detectives revealed this week that they are drawing on the very latest expertise in forensic science, pioneered by an institute known as “the Body Farm” in the US.

Human bodies are left to rot in various different conditions at the facility in Tennessee, which is officially known as the Forensic Anthropology Center. Dozens of bodies are scattered over a two-acre patch of woodland, some left in cars, others tied up in plastic bags and some hanging in nooses – enabling forensic specialists to study exactly how they decompose and what chemicals and nutrients they leave behind as they rot.

“My main task is to identify in space and time the areas associated with Ben’s disappearance. I’m confident we will find traces. It’s just a matter of time,” Dr Karl Harrison, a British forensic archaeologist working with the police, told The Telegraph.

His company, Preston-based Alecto Forensics, has helped identify victims from the mass casualty terrorist attacks of September 2001 in the US and the July 2005 London bombings, as well as victims of massacres in the Balkans and the Haiti earthquake of 2010.

Dr Harrison also worked on the investigation into the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz in Portugal, but says the Needham search is easier because it is being conducted over a smaller area – just the field and olive grove either side of the farmhouse.

“As a site, it is relatively unchanged and undeveloped. We are looking for general clutter, from old drinks cans to food packets with English writing on the packaging and children’s toys.”

The challenge by the landowner forced DI Cousins to cancel a trip to see Ben’s mother, Kerry Needham, who is believed to be staying on the Turkish coast, a short ferry ride away from Kos.  The purpose of the trip was to explain to her the progress that the British and Greek team have made so far.

In an interview on ITV’s Good Morning Britain on Friday, Kerry’s daughter, Leighanna, 22, who was born after Ben’s disappearance, said the family were braced for the worst – that police will find the remains of the little boy.

"None of us want to believe that they’re going to find something there, because that’s 25 years of fighting and pain and hurt that could have been ended 25 years ago.

"We’re a family that’s lived in hope and what do you when that hope’s all gone? How do you continue when there’s nothing left?” she said.

I don't know why they haven't used dogs, but I'm sure there's a good reason.

Perhaps those, particular, conditions are not best suited to a dog's deployment?

I really don't know.

But I think the article gives a fairly good reflection of something of the background to the difficulties faced in the search for Ben (RIP).

« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 08:36:34 PM by ferryman »
Why is Victoria Derbybshire persona non grata on this board?

Offline John

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2016, 03:15:50 PM »
OK, splitting hairs - ADDITIONAL information then.  I'm surprised you're so resistant to the possibility that Ben met his fate in this way, when you're fairly adamant something similar happened to Madeleine.  A little boy with a fascination for diggers (like most little boys) is left unattended outside, near where diggers are operating and goes missing.  Nothing is seen of him again, but there are rumours and finally a witness comes forward with more specific information and after an extensive search of an area where one of the digger operators was known to have deposited spoil from the site near the child's home a child's toy car is found, one that his family are 90% certain is Ben's.  The police can't say what definitely happened but based on the available evidence they have strong grounds to believe that Ben was killed in an accident and his body buried (unwittingly on not, they don't know).  Which bit of this do you find unlikely / unbelievable?   If it didn't happen this way, what evidence do you have pointing to any alternative scenario?  How much more searching do you think the police should undertake and what and where exactly should they be searching?

The digger accident theory is but one.  DCI Jon Cousins of South Yorkshire Police provided no PROOF that Ben was run over and that digger operator Constantinos Barkas hid his body, he was out of order to make such an inference.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 12:16:37 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline John

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2016, 03:17:06 PM »
Kerry has, herself, identified the toy they found as Ben's.


They weren't sure actually.

As for using dogs they did so back in 2012 without much success but they didn't do extensive excavations at that time.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 12:15:58 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Alfie

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2016, 05:52:52 PM »
The digger accident theory is but one.  DCI Jon Cousins of South Yorkshire Police provided no PROOF that Ben was run over and that digger operator Constantinos Barkas hid his body, he was out of order to make such an inference.
On what basis should he have explained the recent digs, and tearing down of property to find Ben's body then?  A whim?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 12:16:59 PM by John »
Only asking questions....here's one:

Goncalo Amaral's book is full of blatant untruths and  demonstrates a willful misunderstanding of the evidence.  Apparently it's libellous to say so - but why so when it is true?

Offline mercury

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2016, 12:24:26 AM »
No evidence of death
No evidence the toy found was bens
No evidence that anyone knowingly killed him
No evidence of anyone buryng him
Suck on that alfie
Those are the facts

Offline John

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2016, 12:18:45 PM »
No evidence of death
No evidence the toy found was bens
No evidence that anyone knowingly killed him
No evidence of anyone buryng him
Suck on that alfie
Those are the facts

Aside from the penultimate comment I agree.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2016, 12:19:56 PM »
Leighanna Needham hopes brother Ben is still alive




Friday 21 October 2016

The sister of missing Sheffield toddler Ben Needham told Hallam the result of the latest digs on Kos was the "worst possible outcome" for the family.



Leighanna Needham still has hope that Ben is alive - after he went missing in 1991 on the Greek island.

South Yorkshire Police announced on Monday they think he was killed by a digger - after they found a toy car thought to be his at one of their dig sites.

Leighanna has told us

"We still don't have the answers to a 25 year old nightmare so I think in my eyes this is the certainly the worst outcome."

"We've fought for this since 1991, we're still no closer to finding out the truth. Its very difficult for us."

"We were told to obviously prepare for the worst - we imagined that the worst would have been finding Ben's remains but to be honest I actually think that this is the possible worst scenario."

http://www.hallamfm.co.uk/localnews/leighanna-needham-hopes-brother-ben-is-still-alive/
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:29:01 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Alfie

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2016, 02:04:38 PM »
Aside from the penultimate comment I agree.

No evidence of death - true
No evidence the toy found was bens - although his family say they are 90% sure it's his. 
No evidence that anyone knowingly killed him - except for the testimony of someone known to the alleged "killer".
No evidence of anyone buryng him - as above.
Suck on that alfie - I don't think that's a very appropriate comment in what was (until this point) a fairly civilized discussion - trust Mercury to lower the tone!
Those are the facts - anyone would think I wanted the child dead, the aggression on show from some quarters.  The fact is - we don't know all the facts, those closest to the investigation do.  I trust them to know what they're doing and the conclusions they have drawn.  If you don't then that's fine.  Kerry and her parents seem to have accepted it too, even if her daughter has not been able to come to terms with it.
Only asking questions....here's one:

Goncalo Amaral's book is full of blatant untruths and  demonstrates a willful misunderstanding of the evidence.  Apparently it's libellous to say so - but why so when it is true?

Offline John

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2016, 06:02:11 PM »
The question asked a few days back as to why the specialist dogs werent used this time has been passed to the dog expert for comment.    He is of the belief it might be because of the archaeological remains found.  Alternatively it may be that they were going to dig up everywhere in any event so felt the dogs were redundant.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:28:52 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2016, 06:30:08 PM »
No evidence of death - true
No evidence the toy found was bens - although his family say they are 90% sure it's his. 
No evidence that anyone knowingly killed him - except for the testimony of someone known to the alleged "killer".
No evidence of anyone buryng him - as above.
Suck on that alfie - I don't think that's a very appropriate comment in what was (until this point) a fairly civilized discussion - trust Mercury to lower the tone!
Those are the facts - anyone would think I wanted the child dead, the aggression on show from some quarters.  The fact is - we don't know all the facts, those closest to the investigation do.  I trust them to know what they're doing and the conclusions they have drawn.  If you don't then that's fine.  Kerry and her parents seem to have accepted it too, even if her daughter has not been able to come to terms with it.

Who knows what the family really feel.  I'm quite sure Kerry is very grateful to SYP regardless of their failure to end this mystery.  That said, I believe Leigh-Anna has told us all we need to know and has been very brave in doing so.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 01:54:42 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Alfie

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2016, 07:03:47 PM »
The question asked a few days back as to why the specialist dogs werent used this time has been passed to the dog expert for comment.    He is of the belief it might be because of the archaeological remains found.  Alternatively it may be that they were going to dig up everywhere in any event so felt the dogs were redundant.
Well I said that and was ignored.  Great minds, eh?  8(0(*
Only asking questions....here's one:

Goncalo Amaral's book is full of blatant untruths and  demonstrates a willful misunderstanding of the evidence.  Apparently it's libellous to say so - but why so when it is true?

Offline John

Re: South Yorkshire Police end latest search for Ben Needham.
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2016, 04:41:40 AM »
Well I said that and was ignored.  Great minds, eh?  8(0(*

Personally I think they lost an opportunity but it could be down to cost constraints like so many things these days.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.