Author Topic: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?  (Read 529 times)

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Offline Daisy

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Here is the answer to the first question
Why did Mark lie when he claimed that his father was living with friends in London?
?
I still hadn’t heard from dad when I came home in the New Year only to find the house empty, and I wasn’t getting any answer to my calls or texts. I had no real notion of where my father actually was by this point and when the neighbours told me they hadn’t seen him either I came to my own, albeit naive conclusions. It all stemmed from ideas dad had been toying with as far back as the summer about what he might do once I’d moved out. One of his plans involved staying with Egyptian friends from a church we used to go to. Given that this was the only place he’d specifically mentioned to me before, and knowing that he’d stayed there in the past, the only logical explanation seemed to be that he’d followed through with it. This was the assumption I conveyed to the neighbours I bumped into on 15th and 22nd January 2010.

I wasn’t able to provide any proof of these conversations with dad at my trial but we’ve just stumbled upon evidence for it amongst dad’s paperwork, literally about a month ago. On 23rd March 2009, dad visited the websites of two Coptic churches he hadn’t been to or had any contact with for at least 8 years. He printed out 2 pages for safekeeping, and this is what we found. They contain contact details for the church and maps with directions as to how to get there. One of them is in London.  We’ve also gathered evidence as to previous occasions when dad stayed with friends from these Churches, and times when I was left with them as a child while he was away on business.

Although then this wasn’t a lie, it’s fair to say that I hadn’t been completely open or honest with the neighbours on previous encounters.  The main reason is that I really didn’t know them that well.  We’d lived in the same street for 20 years or more but this was the first year I’d actually spoken to any of them:

•   “I do not know much about Sami. He was reclusive and kept himself to himself, he didn’t really integrate. In 22 years I spoke to him once or twice a year” JRM
•   “As the years passed Sami became more insular and didn’t really interact with the neighbours. He was intensely private; the curtains were always closed regardless of the time of day. I’ve never been invited to his house in all the years we have lived here” CSC
•   “Sami informed me that he wouldn’t be coming back. He was very reserved and private.  After a while he cut us dead” JPI
•   “As a young child, Mark was told and bullied in what to do every day. He was not allowed to talk to us (neighbours)” MAR
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 12:29:06 PM by John »

Offline Daisy

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2017, 08:16:02 PM »
All my friends lived outside the area, so I never hung out in the village at all. I’d grown up against a backdrop of bitter disputes between my father and the neighbours and we were only just starting to mend relations:

•   “Sami came out and started shouting abuse at him. I confronted him but he told my son to ‘piss off’. Subsequently he threatened us with a knife” SSP
•   “It didn’t take long for him to become notorious for shouting viciously at neighbours’ children if they went onto his grass or property”WP
•   “He just reversed at speed out of his driveway, followed me, and pulled up alongside me blocking oncoming traffic. He got out of his car and started banging on my window and having a real go at me”.WP
•   “Sami was on my lawn shouting at me ‘silly bitch’. He was very aggressive and nothing I could do or say would calm him down. From that day on I never had another conversation with him”SEP

Dad’s sisters gave some insight into his unpredictable behaviour after my trial:

•   “Sami left Egypt in 1968. He suddenly resigned from his job…and got a passport to England to search for work there, without informing us”
•   “Sami used to disappear and stop writing to us from time to time, then return again saying he was ‘busy’ or ‘ill’. He never spoke or wrote to us about his personal life or problems and we never interfered.  We knew nothing about his marriage or separation, or even where he was working as a teacher. He did not tell us that he was going to undergo surgery, or when he was ill.  We tried to telephone him several times (2008) and no one was home. After that he changed the phone number and we did not know why”.

At the time, I felt the neighbours just didn’t know or understand dad the way I did, and I dismissed their concerns –quite stupidly as it turned out. I lacked the mature outlook and experience that they had and only wish I’d taken what they were saying more seriously
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 12:29:39 PM by John »

Offline John

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2017, 12:31:47 PM »
Thank you for posting the first of the responses Daisy.  It would be sense to give each response its own thread so that they are easier for readers to follow and we don't end up with one long thread relating to every issue.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 12:56:43 PM by John »
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Offline John

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2017, 12:47:06 PM »
Here is the answer to the first question
Why did Mark lie when he claimed that his father was living with friends in London?
?
I still hadn’t heard from dad when I came home in the New Year only to find the house empty, and I wasn’t getting any answer to my calls or texts. I had no real notion of where my father actually was by this point and when the neighbours told me they hadn’t seen him either I came to my own, albeit naive conclusions. It all stemmed from ideas dad had been toying with as far back as the summer about what he might do once I’d moved out. One of his plans involved staying with Egyptian friends from a church we used to go to. Given that this was the only place he’d specifically mentioned to me before, and knowing that he’d stayed there in the past, the only logical explanation seemed to be that he’d followed through with it. This was the assumption I conveyed to the neighbours I bumped into on 15th and 22nd January 2010.

I wasn’t able to provide any proof of these conversations with dad at my trial but we’ve just stumbled upon evidence for it amongst dad’s paperwork, literally about a month ago. On 23rd March 2009, dad visited the websites of two Coptic churches he hadn’t been to or had any contact with for at least 8 years. He printed out 2 pages for safekeeping, and this is what we found. They contain contact details for the church and maps with directions as to how to get there. One of them is in London.  We’ve also gathered evidence as to previous occasions when dad stayed with friends from these Churches, and times when I was left with them as a child while he was away on business.

Although then this wasn’t a lie, it’s fair to say that I hadn’t been completely open or honest with the neighbours on previous encounters.  The main reason is that I really didn’t know them that well.  We’d lived in the same street for 20 years or more but this was the first year I’d actually spoken to any of them:

It seems to be beyond doubt that Mark's father was an eccentric if not a total oddball and that his (Mark's) upbringing was really regimented bordering on the bizarre but that still doesn't get to the crux of the question.  Sami disappeared back in August yet by New Year Mark appears to have made no serious attempt to contact him in person in London.  Sami's idiocentricity aside, if Sami was supposed to be in London I fail to see how Mark couldn't have tracked him down given the clues he admits to having in his possession.

In support I also point to the fact that son Mark had access to his fathers bank account and the funds therein which he allegedly misappropriated.  My point is this, had Sami gone off to stay with friends in London as Mark suggests, he would have spent money from his bank account but this didn't happen.  Mark accessed the account into which Sami's care allowance and benefits were being paid, he knew no funds were being withdrawn by his father because he himself withdrew them.

Out of interest, who was paying the service charges applicable to the family home if it was empty for six months?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 12:55:55 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline Daisy

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2017, 03:03:50 PM »
It seems to be beyond doubt that Mark's father was an eccentric if not a total oddball and that his (Mark's) upbringing was really regimented bordering on the bizarre but that still doesn't get to the crux of the question.  Sami disappeared back in August yet by New Year Mark appears to have made no serious attempt to contact him in person in London.  Sami's idiocentricity aside, if Sami was supposed to be in London I fail to see how Mark couldn't have tracked him down given the clues he admits to having in his possession.

In support I also point to the fact that son Mark had access to his fathers bank account and the funds therein which he allegedly misappropriated.  My point is this, had Sami gone off to stay with friends in London as Mark suggests, he would have spent money from his bank account but this didn't happen.  Mark accessed the account into which Sami's care allowance and benefits were being paid, he knew no funds were being withdrawn by his father because he himself withdrew them.

Out of interest, who was paying the service charges applicable to the family home if it was empty for six months?



I hate to keep repeating myself but Mark last saw his dad in October and the neighbours saw the car leaving the property after October. As the curtains were closed all the time then no one would have paid much attention as Sami often went away for long periods. 

As for the bank account, again I have to repeat that this the only one Mark had access to. The care allowance was paid into it and Mark also paid several thousand of his own money into it as his father couldn't afford to pay the mortgage.

Offline mrswah

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2017, 04:38:05 PM »
Thank you Daisy, for bringing this case to our attention.  I have been reading all the newspaper reports from when Mark was arrested and convicted, as well as the posts on the forum. I had not previously heard of this case.

Mark had a motive to kill his father, but that does not mean he did. There does not appear to be much evidence that he did, apart from the fact that he had a strange relationship with Samuel, and he had access to the property.

I am surprised that the prosecution was unable to make a more precise estimate of when Samuel was killed (have heard this kind of thing before!).  The neighbours sound weird too: in the newspaper reports, they appear to be very concerned about Samuel's whereabouts, and suspicious of Mark, and at the same time, there are all these quotes about how difficult he was, how they didn't get on with him, and how badly he treated his son.

It is not clear whom Samuel knew, and what "enemies" he had. A number of people could have had a motive to murder him. It appears that , at the trial, Samuel's lifestyle, and the people he knew, was not gone into very thoroughly.

This case has sparked my interest, and I look forward to learning more.


Offline John

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2017, 12:02:50 AM »


I hate to keep repeating myself but Mark last saw his dad in October and the neighbours saw the car leaving the property after October. As the curtains were closed all the time then no one would have paid much attention as Sami often went away for long periods. 

As for the bank account, again I have to repeat that this the only one Mark had access to. The care allowance was paid into it and Mark also paid several thousand of his own money into it as his father couldn't afford to pay the mortgage.

First we have to establish the 1st of October sighting claim. Reference a previous question.

 
On 1st October Mark and his father were putting up a fence post and spoke to Aileen Wilson. I presume she was a neighbour.  So at the very least Sami was alive on that date and not already dead as the prosecution say.  There is not a shred of scientific evidence to prove he died in August or September, or in fact a date at all when he died.

Is there a statement or affidavit from Aileen Wilson to that effect and if not, why not?  Did she testify at the trail, was she a defence witness?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline John

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2017, 12:05:02 AM »
Daisy, your reply leads me back to another question I previously asked which has relevance to the 'gone off to stay with friends in London' claim.

One of my previous questions related to computer use.  We have been told that Sami used the internet considerably so one way to determine if he was alive or dead was to check his internet usage. One way of doing this is merely to examine his computer, tablet or mobile phone.  Another way is to forensically examine his telephony accounts and the accounts he had with internet service providers. If Sami was alive as Mark insists there will be accounts from these various sources showing a pattern of usuage connected to his own IP.

In addition, when someone goes off on their travels as Mark claims his father did they generate a financial trail which in this day and age is extremely easy to follow.  A check of his bank accounts, credit card statements etc will reveal where he was if anywhere.

Did Sami take his car when he supposedly left to visit friends in London or did it remain in the garage?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 12:11:43 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline Daisy

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2017, 07:16:34 AM »
I have AW's witness statement which I will be posting. I also have the answers to the other questions re internet usage. I have photos to show as well. Mark's answers are very long and detailed so it is a case of having time to type them out and working out how to attach photos as these were sent to me in an email from one of Mark's relations. Subsequent questions asked since I sent the first ones to Mark will go in a further letter. As regards Sami going to visit friends in London, Mark explained paperwork relating to where he went was only found a few months' ago so he couldn't have investigated this at the time.  When you read all he has to say and his openness and honesty, like me you will be convinced he is innocent.

Offline John

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2017, 03:01:30 PM »
I have AW's witness statement which I will be posting. I also have the answers to the other questions re internet usage. I have photos to show as well. Mark's answers are very long and detailed so it is a case of having time to type them out and working out how to attach photos as these were sent to me in an email from one of Mark's relations. Subsequent questions asked since I sent the first ones to Mark will go in a further letter. As regards Sami going to visit friends in London, Mark explained paperwork relating to where he went was only found a few months' ago so he couldn't have investigated this at the time.  When you read all he has to say and his openness and honesty, like me you will be convinced he is innocent.

Thank you Daisy, can you open a new thread for each witness like we have on the Bamber board.

I look forward to reading Mark's responses, as I stated previously this case has a way to go yet.  I will see if some of our inhouse sleuths might want to contribute more to this board.

Another general question for Mark. Does he have family support in his fight?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 03:04:30 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline Daisy

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2017, 07:15:12 PM »
Thank you Daisy, can you open a new thread for each witness like we have on the Bamber board.

I look forward to reading Mark's responses, as I stated previously this case has a way to go yet.  I will see if some of our inhouse sleuths might want to contribute more to this board.

Another general question for Mark. Does he have family support in his fight?


Thanks John. Mark is very grateful to you for allowing him space to give more information.  Luckily he does have a family to support him. You will recall he was reunited with his mother shortly before trial, having been told that she died when he was a young child.  I am now working on another thread and hope to post it this evening.

Offline John

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2017, 08:06:23 PM »

Thanks John. Mark is very grateful to you for allowing him space to give more information.  Luckily he does have a family to support him. You will recall he was reunited with his mother shortly before trial, having been told that she died when he was a young child.  I am now working on another thread and hope to post it this evening.

Thank you Daisy, please pass on my regards to him.  Finding out his mother was not deceased must have been a truly bitter sweet experience.

As I stated at the outset I am quite prepared to review this case here on the basis that everyone is entitled to a hearing.  But remember too that this is not a vindication as I am undecided as to his culpability.  We have looked at several potential miscarriage of justice cases here but many turn out to be guilty as charged.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 08:12:26 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline Daisy

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2017, 08:44:06 AM »
I spoke to Mark yesterday. I think we were all under the impression that although Mark suspected his father was in Lomdon he had no proof. This isn't the case. I asked him why the friends he stayed with haven't come forward. Mark told me that early in the investigation which started off as a missing persons enquiry it was established that he had never gone to London. Mark assumed wrongly that he had and this is why he didn't pay attention to the neighbours concerns.

Offline Angelo222

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2017, 03:27:04 PM »
I spoke to Mark yesterday. I think we were all under the impression that although Mark suspected his father was in London he had no proof. This isn't the case. I asked him why the friends he stayed with haven't come forward. Mark told me that early in the investigation which started off as a missing persons enquiry it was established that he had never gone to London. Mark assumed wrongly that he had and this is why he didn't pay attention to the neighbours concerns.

So Samuel never left home at all and for months never spent any money on anything and was never seen by any of his neighbours in all that time?  The truth being that Samuel was dead, buried beside the family garage in a grave which coincidentally his son covered over with a load of concrete. 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 03:31:05 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Offline Angelo222

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Re: Why did Mark lie claiming his father was living with friends in London?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2017, 03:34:02 PM »
I have AW's witness statement which I will be posting. I also have the answers to the other questions re internet usage. I have photos to show as well. Mark's answers are very long and detailed so it is a case of having time to type them out and working out how to attach photos as these were sent to me in an email from one of Mark's relations. Subsequent questions asked since I sent the first ones to Mark will go in a further letter. As regards Sami going to visit friends in London, Mark explained paperwork relating to where he went was only found a few months' ago so he couldn't have investigated this at the time.  When you read all he has to say and his openness and honesty, like me you will be convinced he is innocent.

How could there be paperwork to where he was when he never left home or is he referring to past trips?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!