Author Topic: Newcastle city centre child abduction  (Read 2310 times)

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Offline ShiningInLuz

Newcastle city centre child abduction
« on: January 24, 2017, 01:53:11 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-5667c315-a69c-4e5d-a683-e4e7771eb04d

This is a 'documentary' by the BBC about the true story of a 3-year-old girl who was abducted by two teenage girls from Primark in Newcastle city centre, not too long ago.

This is not 100% comparable with the Madeleine McCann case by any means, and the BBC has not gone down that route.

Aspects of it are directly pertinent.  The store search, the mother's response, the deployment of resources in the golden hour, which in this case was literally the first 60 minutes, and police attempts to seal off an area in central Newcastle.

There are also stats on child abductions per annum in the UK, plus how many of those are abduction by a stranger.

26
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 08:25:28 PM by John »
In mods I trust!

Offline davel

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2017, 02:00:54 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-5667c315-a69c-4e5d-a683-e4e7771eb04d

This is a 'documentary' by the BBC about the true story of a 3-year-old girl who was abducted by two teenage girls from Primark in Newcastle city centre, not too long ago.

This is not 100% comparable with the Madeleine McCann case by any means, and the BBC has not gone down that route.

Aspects of it are directly pertinent.  The store search, the mother's response, the deployment of resources in the golden hour, which in this case was literally the first 60 minutes, and police attempts to seal off an area in central Newcastle.

There are also stats on child abductions per annum in the UK, plus how many of those are abduction by a stranger.

Stranger abductions are rare
Rare things happen
Most parental abductions are where there is a custody dispute

Offline Lace

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2017, 04:30:58 PM »
Stranger abductions are rare
Rare things happen
Most parental abductions are where there is a custody dispute

There has been quite a few alerts going out about children being approached by men lately,  luckily the  children have ran away.







Offline Brietta

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2017, 05:32:26 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-5667c315-a69c-4e5d-a683-e4e7771eb04d

This is a 'documentary' by the BBC about the true story of a 3-year-old girl who was abducted by two teenage girls from Primark in Newcastle city centre, not too long ago.

This is not 100% comparable with the Madeleine McCann case by any means, and the BBC has not gone down that route.

Aspects of it are directly pertinent.  The store search, the mother's response, the deployment of resources in the golden hour, which in this case was literally the first 60 minutes, and police attempts to seal off an area in central Newcastle.

There are also stats on child abductions per annum in the UK, plus how many of those are abduction by a stranger.


Reiterated throughout the BBC clip is the absolute primacy of The Golden Hour in child abduction cases.

Quote
All police officers are trained in the principles of the “golden hour”.

In any major criminal investigation officers think of the first hour as being a critical window in which to secure evidence, crime scenes, locate witnesses, find missing people and track down suspects while they are still relatively close by.

As time goes on it gets harder to do these things.

In an abduction case, the golden hour is even more critical - with every passing minute the risk to the abductee increases.


It is also illustrated how far an abductor can travel with the victim from the scene of the abduction before the police are even alerted.

Quote
In retrospect, the time advantage the suspects had achieved over the police was chilling.

A full 12 minutes before even that first 101 call from the Primark manager, the teenage girls and their victim were stepping off the Metro at South Gosforth station - more than two miles away.

They walked, via side streets, to a shopping centre next to the park. It was 17:00 - just five minutes after police had received the initial alert.

In the city centre, officers were dashing to Primark. Soon they would be locking down the city centre and beginning their hunt for the teenage abductors.

Their targets though were now in an area with comparatively little CCTV.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-5667c315-a69c-4e5d-a683-e4e7771eb04d

The contrast between the policing of this crime and Madeleine's could not be more marked from attitude to result.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Brietta

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 03:35:47 PM »
All police officers are trained in the principles of the “golden hour”.

In any major criminal investigation officers think of the first hour as being a critical window in which to secure evidence, crime scenes, locate witnesses, find missing people and track down suspects while they are still relatively close by.

As time goes on it gets harder to do these things.

In an abduction case, the golden hour is even more critical - with every passing minute the risk to the abductee increases.

For Byrne, who was now in charge of the search, the clock was ticking loudly.

First and foremost in the golden hour it's the recovery of the child - the preservation of life. That's what it's all about. But secondly it's about bringing offenders to justice.”

With the schoolgirl abductors three quarters of an hour in front, police had some serious catching up to do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-5667c315-a69c-4e5d-a683-e4e7771eb04d


In the majority of suspected abduction cases the police are playing 'catch up'.  The incident has to occur, then there is an interval before it is discovered and preliminary area searches conducted and only when these are unsuccessful is the assistance of the police called.

At that stage it would be my opinion that the priority is the missing child.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 07:09:42 PM by Angelo222 »
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Brietta

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2017, 11:25:19 PM »
Quote
The first few hours in a missing person's search are often referred to as 'The Golden Hours'.
http://www.itv.com/thismorning/missing-people-helplines


There was a marked difference given to the speed with which police dealt with Rose's situation and the way Madeleine's case was conducted.

Rose was missed within minutes and when the search for her was unsuccessful resulted in the police being called. 
Acting on the information given in the emergency call from the store manager the police immediately moved into missing child mode and subsequently determined the child had been removed from the store, when they checked the CCTV.

Madeleine was missed at 10pm.
The last time she had been seen was after 9pm.
The police did not have the benefit of CCTV to enable them see her being removed from the scene.  What they had were witness statements.
  • the raised shutter and open window
  • a man walking from the direction of the apartment carrying a barefoot pyjama clad child

Why did Madeleine McCann not deserve being given the benefit of the doubt ... and the case coordinator has written a book in which he has told us she was not.


Quote
“Hello, I'm one of the managers at Primark in Northumberland Street in the middle of Newcastle,” the caller began.

“We've got a lost child in store, three years old, but it's over 20 minutes now, and we've had the staff scouring the place and we just can't find her.”

The caller, Thomas Clay, was calm but a little concerned.

Staff at the busy store are used to dealing with lost children.

It can happen several times a day, and the children always turn up within a few minutes, hiding under the clothes displays or wandering around the store.



Quote
 I tried to remain calm for him, I suggested that he contact the British Embassy and I remember him telling me that he had spoken to the local police but they were not taking the situation seriously. I remember Gerry saying that they did not treat the matter with urgency and only stated that Madeleine must have left on her own and that she would be back later.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm



Quote
McCafferty was typing away as Clay spoke, creating the police log.

“The little girl's mother says the last time she saw her she was standing with two schoolgirls that the mother estimates to be approximately 13 years old. But we haven't seen the schoolgirls either.”




That was enough to change a serious though routine call into a top line emergency because it mirrored an historic child abduction case.
It is nothing like the way in which Madeleine's case was approached.  The police knew Madeleine had not been seen since after 9pm ... yet at 11.30  " ... the local police were not taking the situation seriously".
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 11:28:15 PM by Brietta »
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Brietta

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2017, 12:24:01 AM »

The golden hour is summed up very well by OxfordBloo as follows ...
"...the golden hour is metaphorical. It means the earlier observation and investigations are carried out comprehensively, the more likely a solution is to be found."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6160.90

Should the police in Rose's case have packed up and gone home at ABDUCTION+63mins saying words to the effect that's it guys, might as well pack it in, we're three minutes over the golden hour ... no chance of finding them now!

That is not how the golden hour works ... it is what is the action taken once the alarm is raised.  The police in Rose's case were called almost immediately, but were still left playing catch up and were very lucky to retrieve her unharmed.
Madeleine McCann did not enjoy that alacrity once her disappearance was reported.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 07:25:29 PM by Angelo222 »
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Brietta

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2017, 01:52:07 PM »
It is not unusual for children who are taken from their beds not to be discovered missing for many hours.  Madeleine's case doesn't come close to many of the time gaps.
Even in Rose's case where the gap was minimal between Rose being abducted, missed by her mother, searched for unsuccessfully and reported to the police ... the police were playing catch up with the perpetrators ... they were always one step behind, and that had the potential for disaster.

The way in which they played the hand they were dealt ensured Rose's safe return to her mother.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 07:37:55 PM by Angelo222 »
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Alice Purjorick

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Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2017, 02:22:19 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-5667c315-a69c-4e5d-a683-e4e7771eb04d

All police officers are trained in the principles of the “golden hour”.

In any major criminal investigation officers think of the first hour as being a critical window in which to secure evidence, crime scenes, locate witnesses, find missing people and track down suspects while they are still relatively close by.

As time goes on it gets harder to do these things.

In an abduction case, the golden hour is even more critical - with every passing minute the risk to the abductee increases.

For Byrne, who was now in charge of the search, the clock was ticking loudly.

“First and foremost in the golden hour it's the recovery of the child - the preservation of life. That's what it's all about. But secondly it's about bringing offenders to justice.”
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 07:39:34 PM by Angelo222 »
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Alfie

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Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2017, 02:37:07 PM »

British police are taught to act fast and use the ‘golden hour’
 









Stewart Tendler, Crime Correspondent 

Last updated at 12:00AM, May 9 2007
 


They call it the “golden hour” principle, and British detectives learn it from the day they don plain clothes as a CID officer.

Detectives are taught that the first few hours are crucial, because there are fresh clues, alert potential witnesses and the trail is still hot.

Forensic science evidence, such as fingerprints, DNA material and CCTV film, is still available and the first lesson of the national murder manual issued by chief constables spells out that cases are solved by “effective early action”.

Roy Ramm, a former commander in the Metropolitan Police, said that, in reality, it means: “Quick reactions. Believe a serious crime has happened – even if the little girl turns up later wandering around with a toy.

“Treat the scene as a crime scene and get an incident room going. Use the goodwill of the public to help you,” he said.

British officers treat a missing child, especially a very young one, with priority. One veteran investigator said a case like the disappearance of Madeleine presents options that she might have been taken for ransom, by someone who wants a child or knows childless parents who are prepared to pay, or by a paedophile.

In Britain police would use the child rescue alert, based on the Amber Alert system pioneered in the United States and established after the murder of Sarah Payne, to use the eyes and ears of the public.

Local radio, television and radio would be asked to broadcast a description of the child and any suspicious vehicle.

One officer said that, unless there was reason to hold back because there was a strong lead, police would go public quickly. “You would get a description out, what the child was last seen wearing and a sketch of any suspect,” he said.

By the next morning detectives would be examining the sex offenders register to see which known paedophiles were living in the area. They would also consult force intelligence files and a national database, which holds details of cases, suspects and patterns of behaviour for paedophile crimes going back to the 1950s.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2017, 03:43:50 PM »
British police are taught to act fast and use the ‘golden hour’
 









Stewart Tendler, Crime Correspondent 

Last updated at 12:00AM, May 9 2007
 


They call it the “golden hour” principle, and British detectives learn it from the day they don plain clothes as a CID officer.

Detectives are taught that the first few hours are crucial, because there are fresh clues, alert potential witnesses and the trail is still hot.

Forensic science evidence, such as fingerprints, DNA material and CCTV film, is still available and the first lesson of the national murder manual issued by chief constables spells out that cases are solved by “effective early action”.

Roy Ramm, a former commander in the Metropolitan Police, said that, in reality, it means: “Quick reactions. Believe a serious crime has happened – even if the little girl turns up later wandering around with a toy.

“Treat the scene as a crime scene and get an incident room going. Use the goodwill of the public to help you,” he said.

British officers treat a missing child, especially a very young one, with priority. One veteran investigator said a case like the disappearance of Madeleine presents options that she might have been taken for ransom, by someone who wants a child or knows childless parents who are prepared to pay, or by a paedophile.

In Britain police would use the child rescue alert, based on the Amber Alert system pioneered in the United States and established after the murder of Sarah Payne, to use the eyes and ears of the public.

Local radio, television and radio would be asked to broadcast a description of the child and any suspicious vehicle.

One officer said that, unless there was reason to hold back because there was a strong lead, police would go public quickly. “You would get a description out, what the child was last seen wearing and a sketch of any suspect,” he said.

By the next morning detectives would be examining the sex offenders register to see which known paedophiles were living in the area. They would also consult force intelligence files and a national database, which holds details of cases, suspects and patterns of behaviour for paedophile crimes going back to the 1950s.
Is there a relevance to the McCann case?  It appears to me that this is from someone with no knowledge of the case and no knowledge of the locale.

It strikes me as pure wishful thinking on Mr Tendler's part with not even lip service paid to the reality of May 2007.
In mods I trust!

Offline davel

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2017, 03:59:36 PM »
Is there a relevance to the McCann case?  It appears to me that this is from someone with no knowledge of the case and no knowledge of the locale.

It strikes me as pure wishful thinking on Mr Tendler's part with not even lip service paid to the reality of May 2007.

Its relevance to the Mccann case is blindingly obvious...strange you cant see it

Alfie

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Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2017, 04:27:07 PM »
Is there a relevance to the McCann case?  It appears to me that this is from someone with no knowledge of the case and no knowledge of the locale.

It strikes me as pure wishful thinking on Mr Tendler's part with not even lip service paid to the reality of May 2007.
I posted it because of the sentences I highlighted.  There seemed to be some lack of understanding about what constitutes the "Golden Hour" in police investigations and I hope my post would make that more clear, or do you think the principle shouldn't have applied in the McCann case?

Offline Slartibartfast

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2017, 04:36:21 PM »
I posted it because of the sentences I highlighted.  There seemed to be some lack of understanding about what constitutes the "Golden Hour" in police investigations and I hope my post would make that more clear, or do you think the principle shouldn't have applied in the McCann case?

I think in some people's eyes, the golden hour is that variable length of time which ends just before the PT police arrive.
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Alfie

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Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2017, 04:56:05 PM »
I think in some people's eyes, the golden hour is that variable length of time which ends just before the PT police arrive.
I think you are mistaken.