Author Topic: Newcastle city centre child abduction  (Read 2312 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2017, 05:13:11 PM »
I posted it because of the sentences I highlighted.  There seemed to be some lack of understanding about what constitutes the "Golden Hour" in police investigations and I hope my post would make that more clear.
The "golden hour" is a concept best left to writers like Mr Tendler who have no idea what they are talking about, but can spin it into good copy anyway.

The Newcastle incident had many aspects relevant to Madeleine's case.  The BBC link shows that after a search (a la Mark Warner), the Primark manager put in a non-urgent call to police, using 101 rather than 999 or 112.  It was only because the call-taker remembered the Bulger case that it got ramped up to high priority.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 08:21:00 PM by John »
In mods I trust!

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2017, 05:49:11 PM »
The "golden hour" is a concept best left to writers like Mr Tendler who have no idea what they are talking about, but can spin it into good copy anyway.

The Newcastle incident had many aspects relevant to Madeleine's case.  The BBC link shows that after a search (a la Mark Warner), the Primark manager put in a non-urgent call to police, using 101 rather than 999 or 112.  It was only because the call-taker remembered the Bulger case that it got ramped up to high priority.
Would you kindly provide a quote from the article giving Mr Tendler's definition  of the Golden Hour?
From the article I read, he wrote:
"Detectives are taught that the first few hours are crucial" - I don't think there is anything speculative about that, I would say that was fact, unless you can explain why the first few hours of any investigation are not crucial?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 08:21:36 PM by John »

Offline davel

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2017, 05:50:50 PM »
The "golden hour" is a concept best left to writers like Mr Tendler who have no idea what they are talking about, but can spin it into good copy anyway.

The Newcastle incident had many aspects relevant to Madeleine's case.  The BBC link shows that after a search (a la Mark Warner), the Primark manager put in a non-urgent call to police, using 101 rather than 999 or 112.  It was only because the call-taker remembered the Bulger case that it got ramped up to high priority.

He talks of a "few" hours
That means you are speculating as to how long he meant
You don't know
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 08:22:07 PM by John »

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2017, 06:04:05 PM »
Would you kindly provide a quote from the article giving Mr Tendler's definition  of the Golden Hour?
From the article I read, he wrote:
"Detectives are taught that the first few hours are crucial" - I don't think there is anything speculative about that, I would say that was fact, unless you can explain why the first few hours of any investigation are not crucial?
You are correct.  Mr Tendler switches from the Golden Hour singular, to the first few hours, plural.

Or in other words it could mean more or less whatever Mr Tendler wishes it to mean, depending on his interpretation of 'few'.

Therefore it is not the most reliable of sources.
In mods I trust!

Offline davel

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2017, 06:14:48 PM »
You are correct.  Mr Tendler switches from the Golden Hour singular, to the first few hours, plural.

Or in other words it could mean more or less whatever Mr Tendler wishes it to mean, depending on his interpretation of 'few'.

Therefore it is not the most reliable of sources.

As was pointed out some time ago the golden hour is a term to describe the first few hours and does not refer to an hour
It seems you don't understand the article as you were originally making precise calculations on Tendlers words until your error was pointed out

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2017, 06:24:05 PM »
You are correct.  Mr Tendler switches from the Golden Hour singular, to the first few hours, plural.

Or in other words it could mean more or less whatever Mr Tendler wishes it to mean, depending on his interpretation of 'few'.

Therefore it is not the most reliable of sources.
Sigh. 

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2017, 06:28:23 PM »
Let's try this again.

44.1.9 The golden hour
The ‘golden hour’ is not restricted to 60 minutes. It is the initial period following the incident
occurring when the best opportunities exist to take decisive action.


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/433252/Chapter_44_v9.pdf

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2017, 07:18:30 PM »
Let's try this again.

44.1.9 The golden hour
The ‘golden hour’ is not restricted to 60 minutes. It is the initial period following the incident
occurring when the best opportunities exist to take decisive action.


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/433252/Chapter_44_v9.pdf
No, let's not try this again.

This is pure gobbledegook, roughly meaning that the so-called golden hour is a movable feast meaning whatever one wishes to take it to mean.

Or alternatively, it is meaningless.  Just a matter of opinion, nothing more.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 07:44:49 PM by Angelo222 »
In mods I trust!

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2017, 07:39:00 PM »
Here is more from the Home Office Enforcement Instructions and Guidance under the heading of the Golden Hour

Tactical considerations
There are a number of areas to be considered during the ‘golden hour’, these include:
Victims –identify, support and sensitively preserve evidence.
Scenes –identify, preserve, assess and log
Suspects –identify, arrest and preserve evidence
Witnesses –identify, support and prioritise. Note first account and description of any suspects
Log –decisions, reasons, resources, conditions, circumstances
Clear lines of responsibility –identify, inform, brief, coordinate and review
Family/community - identify, inform, establish needs/expectations/concerns, primary support,
sensitivity
Physical evidence –preservation, CCTV, escape routes, public transport routes, ambulances
Prevent contamination –victims, suspects, scenes, exhibits
Intelligence –identify, prioritise, maximise, exploit consider community and open source
intelligence
 Enforcement Instructions and Guidance
Community concerns –establish through lay advice, anticipate possible developments, risks to
public confidence, rumours and so on
Media strategy –use the Immigration & Borders Secretariat in the early stages of any incidents.
Adopt principles of basic media strategy.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 07:40:52 PM by ShiningInLuz »

Offline davel

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2017, 07:50:01 PM »
No, let's not try this again.

This is pure gobbledegook, roughly meaning that the so-called golden hour is a movable feast meaning whatever one wishes to take it to mean.

Or alternatively, it is meaningless.  Just a matter of opinion, nothing more.

The definition is from the gov. Uk website
Hardly gobbledygook

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2017, 12:55:52 AM »
Here is more from the Home Office Enforcement Instructions and Guidance under the heading of the Golden Hour

Tactical considerations
There are a number of areas to be considered during the ‘golden hour’, these include:
Victims –identify, support and sensitively preserve evidence.
Scenes –identify, preserve, assess and log
Suspects –identify, arrest and preserve evidence
Witnesses –identify, support and prioritise. Note first account and description of any suspects
Log –decisions, reasons, resources, conditions, circumstances
Clear lines of responsibility –identify, inform, brief, coordinate and review
Family/community - identify, inform, establish needs/expectations/concerns, primary support,
sensitivity
Physical evidence –preservation, CCTV, escape routes, public transport routes, ambulances
Prevent contamination –victims, suspects, scenes, exhibits
Intelligence –identify, prioritise, maximise, exploit consider community and open source
intelligence
 Enforcement Instructions and Guidance
Community concerns –establish through lay advice, anticipate possible developments, risks to
public confidence, rumours and so on
Media strategy –use the Immigration & Borders Secretariat in the early stages of any incidents.
Adopt principles of basic media strategy.
Which one should I select? There are so many.



« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 08:23:37 PM by John »
In mods I trust!

Offline John

Re: Newcastle city centre child abduction
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2017, 08:25:07 PM »
Please keep posts relative to the Newcastle case and the 'Golden Hour'. TY
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.