Author Topic: Gerry and Kate's reaction to sniffer dogs didnt make sense new ninemsn article  (Read 9512 times)

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Offline davel

I thought so.

So you can't find of forensic employment of dogs with only one dog employed ?
why should I
I havent made any such claims
What I have said is Grime only used one cadaver dog
According to your post relying on one source of information is bad practice
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 11:21:10 AM by davel »

Offline pathfinder73

9 April 2004

SPECIALIST search dogs from South Yorkshire, trained to track down body parts and human remains, have found the body of a suspected murder victim in Northern Ireland.

The Victim Search Team of Pc Martin Grime, with springer spaniel Eddie and Pc John Ellis with border collie Frankie, were called in because of their unique ability to find missing bodies.

They successfully found the body of 65-year-old Attracta Harron from Strabane, who went missing last December, buried in 18 inches of clay on the banks of a stream.

A man has since appeared in court charged with her murder. Members of the victim's family visited the scene to meet the South Yorkshire officers and their dogs.

Pc Ellis said: "Her relatives asked if they could meet us. It was something they wanted to do it and it appeared to comfort them."

Police in Northern Ireland, including a team of divers, had conducted extensive searches for Mrs Harron, but had been unable to trace her.

"If it had not been for the dogs I doubt she would have been found, we would have missed her," said Pc Ellis.

The dogs, trained by Pc Ellis, are the only two in Britain capable of locating human parts, blood and body fluids in small quantities and are specially trained to seek out buried remains.

They can trace human remains that have been buried for years.

In March, 2002, they played a major role in locating the body of Barnsley murder victim 21-year-old Shane Collier. Even though his body had been cut up into parts and buried five months earlier, the dogs found them in a remote woodland in Cumbria. The South Yorkshire police dogs Frankie and Eddie and their handlers now work as part of the special search unit operation by the National Crime and Operations Faculty.

They will be travelling back to South Yorkshire next week to join the search for missing Sheffield man Paul Haywood.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/whats-on/out-and-about/dogs-find-body-parts-of-murder-victim-1-320914
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 11:24:17 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Online ferryman

But Lane's attorney, Terry Johnson, raised questions about the dog's ability to detect decomposition during his cross-examination.

"You have no way of telling what Morse responded to at any location?" Johnson asked Grime.

"He gave us a positive response," Grime said. "The corroboration would normally be to find a cadaver or bone or blood that you can see."

https://www.pressreader.com/usa/the-detroit-news/20121004/281706906902738

Grime is, of course, talking about dogs not trained to work with the US forensic canine program

Dogs on that program were teamed up with dogs (such as Keela) trained to react, alone, to blood and dogs (such as Morse) trained to react to decomposing human remains other than blood.

Online G-Unit

If he could distinguish why would you need a second dog
Proved by deduction again

I deduct this;

Eddie alerts. Is it to cadaver scent or blood? No cadaver can be seen. Keela is used and doesn't alert, so Eddie was detecting cadaver scent. If Keela does alert it's blood.

In respect of the hire car Eddie alerted. Was it cadaver scent or blood? It seems to have been blood on the car key and in the boot, because Keela alerted to both.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline davel

9 April 2004

SPECIALIST search dogs from South Yorkshire, trained to track down body parts and human remains, have found the body of a suspected murder victim in Northern Ireland.

The Victim Search Team of Pc Martin Grime, with springer spaniel Eddie and Pc John Ellis with border collie Frankie, were called in because of their unique ability to find missing bodies.

They successfully found the body of 65-year-old Attracta Harron from Strabane, who went missing last December, buried in 18 inches of clay on the banks of a stream.

A man has since appeared in court charged with her murder. Members of the victim's family visited the scene to meet the South Yorkshire officers and their dogs.

Pc Ellis said: "Her relatives asked if they could meet us. It was something they wanted to do it and it appeared to comfort them."

Police in Northern Ireland, including a team of divers, had conducted extensive searches for Mrs Harron, but had been unable to trace her.

"If it had not been for the dogs I doubt she would have been found, we would have missed her," said Pc Ellis.

The dogs, trained by Pc Ellis, are the only two in Britain capable of locating human parts, blood and body fluids in small quantities and are specially trained to seek out buried remains.

They can trace human remains that have been buried for years.

In March, 2002, they played a major role in locating the body of Barnsley murder victim 21-year-old Shane Collier. Even though his body had been cut up into parts and buried five months earlier, the dogs found them in a remote woodland in Cumbria. The South Yorkshire police dogs Frankie and Eddie and their handlers now work as part of the special search unit operation by the National Crime and Operations Faculty.

They will be travelling back to South Yorkshire next week to join the search for missing Sheffield man Paul Haywood.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/whats-on/out-and-about/dogs-find-body-parts-of-murder-victim-1-320914

so in that case grime used two cadaver dogs....much more sensible

Online ferryman

so in that case grime used two cadaver dogs....much more sensible

Two dogs were deployed AND two handlers, still more sensible.

Offline pathfinder73

Grime is, of course, talking about dogs not trained to work with the US forensic canine program

Dogs on that program were teamed up with dogs (such as Keela) trained to react, alone, to blood and dogs (such as Morse) trained to react to decomposing human remains other than blood.

Morse was tested by the FBI and working for them so what are you talking about? Cadaver dogs alert to blood because it's part of a human corpse.

You cannot provide any evidence of Morse not alerting to blood and that says it all.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Online ferryman

Morse was tested by the FBI and working for them so what are you talking about? Cadaver dogs alert to blood because it's part of a human corpse.

You cannot provide any evidence of Morse not alerting to blood and that says it all.

You introduce a dog to the scents you want the dog to react to and reward the dog for doing so: or, you skip that step and the dog won't.

There is literally no point; indeed, it can be counter-productive, to have two dogs that both react to the same substance (blood).

Online ferryman

The People versus D'Andre Lane:

Quote
Grime testified as an expert in the training and employment of cadaver dogs. According to Grime, he is a full-time contractor for the FBI. Grime worked with Morse, a dog “trained to search for and detect the odor of decomposing human remains,”
and Keela, “trained to search for and locate specifically human blood.” Grime testified that there was no methodology to test the dogs' responses when there is no recoverable material, and that the odor of decomposition may transfer if a person touches a dead body and then touches something else.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mi-court-of-appeals/1683760.html

Online G-Unit

Two dogs were deployed AND two handlers, still more sensible.

it would depend on the area to be covered, I expect. I watched a fly on the wall documentary the other night about Natalie Hemming - a very interesting programme. At one point they were searching for her body but it was a fairly large area. Along came the dog handler with his one trusty spaniel. The body was found later by a walker however.

A very interesting point was when the suspect was asked if he killed her, put her in his car, drove around for a couple of hours, got rid of her and then returned home to tidy up. He argued that it was impossible because he behaved normally with his three children the morning after, but he was guilty. Those arguing that people wouldn't behave normally after a trauma please take note. They can and they do.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline davel

it would depend on the area to be covered, I expect. I watched a fly on the wall documentary the other night about Natalie Hemming - a very interesting programme. At one point they were searching for her body but it was a fairly large area. Along came the dog handler with his one trusty spaniel. The body was found later by a walker however.

A very interesting point was when the suspect was asked if he killed her, put her in his car, drove around for a couple of hours, got rid of her and then returned home to tidy up. He argued that it was impossible because he behaved normally with his three children the morning after, but he was guilty. Those arguing that people wouldn't behave normally after a trauma please take note. They can and they do.

take note....in this case the parents loved their children...this man obviously didnt care for his victim so the comparison is ridiculous

Online G-Unit

take note....in this case the parents loved their children...this man obviously didnt care for his victim so the comparison is ridiculous

I think no-one knows what is going on inside a family except those involved. I have learned that every relationship is unique. Sometimes people say they love someone but their actions tell a different story in private. Love means different things to different people. The man cared obsessively about his partner but he thought he was losing her and his children.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Online ferryman

it would depend on the area to be covered, I expect. I watched a fly on the wall documentary the other night about Natalie Hemming - a very interesting programme. At one point they were searching for her body but it was a fairly large area. Along came the dog handler with his one trusty spaniel. The body was found later by a walker however.

A very interesting point was when the suspect was asked if he killed her, put her in his car, drove around for a couple of hours, got rid of her and then returned home to tidy up. He argued that it was impossible because he behaved normally with his three children the morning after, but he was guilty. Those arguing that people wouldn't behave normally after a trauma please take note. They can and they do.

That was him arguing that.

In Madeleine's investigation, it was others describing the McCanns' demeanour who argued it.

Quite different.

Offline davel

I think no-one knows what is going on inside a family except those involved. I have learned that every relationship is unique. Sometimes people say they love someone but their actions tell a different story in private. Love means different things to different people. The man cared obsessively about his partner but he thought he was losing her and his children.

your comparison is ridiculous...you dont care obsessiveley about someone...thought he was losing her ..he killed her which is far from caring....again your comparison is ridiculous

just read about the case.....he was not caring at all...he was persistently violent...she was having an affair...he probably hated her....you have twisted facts to make a point and failed
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 03:10:41 PM by davel »

Online stephen25000

Grime has been criticized since his involvement in the case for blatantly obvious reasons.

The McCann's and some supporters are concerned about the
Dogs indications.

Yet if they don't matter, then why the concern.
The McCanns were solely responsible for their childcare arrangements and there is no one else to blame.

S and S, two more amateurs making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.