Author Topic: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method  (Read 11409 times)

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Online John

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Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« on: November 22, 2012, 02:06:31 PM »
Motive and Method

What is most strange about the whole affair is the manner in which it was carried out. While criminals may be thought of as morons in books and movies there is normally method in their madness as every policeman knows.
If we are dealing with either a robbery or hijacking this is how it - incredibly - happened.
They corner the car and order the 1st witness - the driver - out so that he can go and call the police.

They drive around and then allow the second witness out to identify them.
Without any intention of committing rape, using her as a hostage or taking the car they murder Anni and leave the car where it can be found by the police.
Why didn't they just turn themselves in and spare the police the bother?

If robbery and hijacking were not the real motive that leaves murder.
If that is so then why would you ever let two witnesses out of the vehicle? In this case 3 dead makes far more sense than 1.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 09:10:35 PM by John »
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Offline Tim Invictus

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2012, 04:21:31 PM »
Motive and Method

What is most strange about the whole affair is the manner in which it was carried out. While criminals may be thought of as morons in books and movies there is normally method in their madness as every policeman knows.
If we are dealing with either a robbery or hijacking this is how it - incredibly - happened.
They corner the car and order the 1st witness - the driver - out so that he can go and call the police.

They drive around and then allow the second witness out to identify them.
Without any intention of committing rape, using her as a hostage or taking the car they murder Anni and leave the car where it can be found by the police.
Why didn't they just turn themselves in and spare the police the bother?

If robbery and hijacking were not the real motive that leaves murder.
If that is so then why would you ever let two witnesses out of the vehicle? In this case 3 dead makes far more sense than 1.

What a ridiculous plan  as you rightly say John. They should have dumped the burnt out car ... buried her body then tried to claim a huge ransom from the family. The way they did it seems to be purely for the murder and that's exactly what it was; murder for hire!

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 04:32:50 PM »
In a programme I saw, Annies Dad was interviewed (lovely, lovely man) and he said when he got the phonecall from Shrien, he was saying to Shrien "Don't worry, it'll be a kidnapping, we'll pay the ransom and get her back" to which Shriens replied (something like "You don't understand, I didn't protect your daughter" (Go to 5 minues and 34 seconds on the link), this took place before Annie was found and it makes me wonder if Shrien already knew the outcome, so it was either a planned murder, kidnapping gone wrong or I wonder if Shrien had taken an insurance policy out and wanted to collect. The other thing I found interesting was, they hadn't registered the marriage in the UK, so in the eyes of English Law, Shrien wasn't her next of kin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiOIUgrTvso

Offline Tim Invictus

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 05:08:37 PM »
In a programme I saw, Annies Dad was interviewed (lovely, lovely man) and he said when he got the phonecall from Shrien, he was saying to Shrien "Don't worry, it'll be a kidnapping, we'll pay the ransom and get her back" to which Shriens replied (something like "You don't understand, I didn't protect your daughter" (Go to 5 minues and 34 seconds on the link), this took place before Annie was found and it makes me wonder if Shrien already knew the outcome, so it was either a planned murder, kidnapping gone wrong or I wonder if Shrien had taken an insurance policy out and wanted to collect. The other thing I found interesting was, they hadn't registered the marriage in the UK, so in the eyes of English Law, Shrien wasn't her next of kin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiOIUgrTvso

Did you also see Shrien Dewani's gay adventures with male sado masochistic prostitutes and the businessman who said he had an affair with Dewani? He quote "didn't want to have sex" with Anni before they married and didn't sleep with her on their wedding night!

Evidently there are text messages and hotel bookings that evidence his secret gay life ... Max Clifford doesn't talk about that does he!

I think Dewani felt trapped in his marriage so chose the surprise honeymoon destination of South Africa because it's now infamous for car hijackings and murder!  IMHO Dewani booked that trip with murder on his mind!
 

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 05:23:50 PM »
You don't really go into the townships to look how people live in the dark and wearing 'going out dancing' clothes and high heels (especially if you're male!)  >@@(*&)

Offline puglove

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 05:27:44 PM »
In a programme I saw, Annies Dad was interviewed (lovely, lovely man) and he said when he got the phonecall from Shrien, he was saying to Shrien "Don't worry, it'll be a kidnapping, we'll pay the ransom and get her back" to which Shriens replied (something like "You don't understand, I didn't protect your daughter" (Go to 5 minues and 34 seconds on the link), this took place before Annie was found and it makes me wonder if Shrien already knew the outcome, so it was either a planned murder, kidnapping gone wrong or I wonder if Shrien had taken an insurance policy out and wanted to collect. The other thing I found interesting was, they hadn't registered the marriage in the UK, so in the eyes of English Law, Shrien wasn't her next of kin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiOIUgrTvso

Did you also see Shrien Dewani's gay adventures with male sado masochistic prostitutes and the businessman who said he had an affair with Dewani? He quote "didn't want to have sex" with Anni before they married and didn't sleep with her on their wedding night!

Evidently there are text messages and hotel bookings that evidence his secret gay life ... Max Clifford doesn't talk about that does he!

I think Dewani felt trapped in his marriage so chose the surprise honeymoon destination of South Africa because it's now infamous for car hijackings and murder!  IMHO Dewani booked that trip with murder on his mind!

I agree. A gay man, using a beautiful, innocent, intelligent girl from a good family to cover for his lifestyle.  There's CCTV footage of him paying the killers.

I must admit though, I'm suprised at Max Clifford getting involved in this.
Bamber's hot new team. Mr. Kipling, Miss Piggy, and a fat bloke. It's all looking very hopeful.

Offline Tim Invictus

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 09:36:08 PM »
In a programme I saw, Annies Dad was interviewed (lovely, lovely man) and he said when he got the phonecall from Shrien, he was saying to Shrien "Don't worry, it'll be a kidnapping, we'll pay the ransom and get her back" to which Shriens replied (something like "You don't understand, I didn't protect your daughter" (Go to 5 minues and 34 seconds on the link), this took place before Annie was found and it makes me wonder if Shrien already knew the outcome, so it was either a planned murder, kidnapping gone wrong or I wonder if Shrien had taken an insurance policy out and wanted to collect. The other thing I found interesting was, they hadn't registered the marriage in the UK, so in the eyes of English Law, Shrien wasn't her next of kin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiOIUgrTvso

Did you also see Shrien Dewani's gay adventures with male sado masochistic prostitutes and the businessman who said he had an affair with Dewani? He quote "didn't want to have sex" with Anni before they married and didn't sleep with her on their wedding night!

Evidently there are text messages and hotel bookings that evidence his secret gay life ... Max Clifford doesn't talk about that does he!

I think Dewani felt trapped in his marriage so chose the surprise honeymoon destination of South Africa because it's now infamous for car hijackings and murder!  IMHO Dewani booked that trip with murder on his mind!

I agree. A gay man, using a beautiful, innocent, intelligent girl from a good family to cover for his lifestyle.  There's CCTV footage of him paying the killers.

I must admit though, I'm suprised at Max Clifford getting involved in this.

I agree Shona ... and the Hindu community doesn't readily accept gays let alone what could be described as a deviant one! He was hiding himself in marriage in my opinion and the reality of it he just could not handle. Divorce is a definite no no and would have brought shame to his family .... so he just killed her!

Max Clifford doesn't surprise me at all ... he would say or do anything for money!

Offline Carana

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2013, 01:23:20 PM »
This seems to be another trial-by-tabloid case at the moment.

I'm not aware of all the "facts" in this case. I did follow it for a while, but would have to refresh my memory on some details.

Just a few questions...

- If he had wanted to bump off his bride, wouldn't it have been easier to arrange while they were in Kruger National Park?

- What were the conditions of this plea deal with Tonga? Was the entire period of questioning video-recorded?

- What if the money Dewani paid had simply been an innocent arrangement for a tourist-guide chauffeur?

- What if Tonga and the carjackers had been in cahoots to simulate a carjacking, but Anni's killing was unintended? Tonga could have been "thrown" out of the car to make him appear innocent.

- The so-called detail about Dewani being thrown out of a back "window" doesn't seem to make much sense. Did the car have a sliding door?

- Dewani could have been thrown out as a future witness to Tonga's "innocence" and possibly to prevent him protecting his wife.

From the Wiki page:

Anni Dewani's body was taken to Cape Town hospital. The post-mortem examination found she had died from a single gunshot wound to the neck, which had severed an artery, and that she was not sexually assaulted.[21] However, an investigation by the BBC Panorama obtained the post-mortem report which showed that a bullet actually passed through Anni's hand, followed by her chest and the wound on her neck was actually an exit wound. The report said the bullet left what it called "an irregular gunshot exit wound". It was reported that this suggested that there had been some sort of struggle.[22]


(...)
On 19 February 2011, the Sunday Telegraph revealed evidence uncovered by Shrien's investigation team that had found a new witness to the murder. Not yet interviewed by the police, the female student, who lived less than 100 feet (30 m) from the location of where the VW Sharan taxi was found, stated that she noted at 08:00 that Anni Dewani's underwear was below her knees and her dress pulled up. Further, the post-mortem report stated that there were a number of dark bruises on Anni's legs, consistent with "finger mark" grips. Consistent with evidence from previous official reports of the positions of her hands, the article concluded that a possible outcome was that Anni was shot whilst trying to defend herself against a rape attack.[28]

If that turns out to be true, there could have been an attempted rape, or a struggle on her part.

- Why go to Gugulethu?

'Mzoli's Place is heaven'
2009-04-16 09:01

Johannesburg - Celebrity chef Jamie Oliver is featuring a Gugulethu restaurant, Mzoli's Place, on the cover of his magazine in April, describing its food as "heaven".

The Times newspaper reported that Oliver spent a day at the restaurant, sampling a variety of meats and swapping recipes with the owner, Mzoli Ngcawuzele.

"He learnt from us and we learnt from him. And he enjoyed the food. When he got his meal, he said, 'wow', he was taken aback," Ngcawuzele said.

Oliver, in a seven-page spread, described his day-long visit to the butchery-cum-restaurant as "totally sexy".

"The whole experience was totally sexy: the heat, the music, the food and the people, where patrons choose cuts of raw meat to be braaied and served.

"In this part of the world, fresh is where it's at. Just kill it. Gut it. Skin it. Eat it. Heaven," wrote Oliver.

"When I go back to Cape Town, I am absolutely going to Mzoli's."

http://www.news24.com/Entertainment/SouthAfrica/Mzolis-Place-is-heaven-20090416

That could sound like a fun place to visit.

Anni and Shrien may not have been aware that it apparently closed at 8pm (if the article below is accurate). Or may not have intended to have dinner there at all.

    

Corner of NY 115 and NY108 in Gugs
"Our come2capetown.com secret and personal no.1": Tucked away amidst the crowded humdrum of Gugs, short for Gugulethu, is one particular gem- Mzoli's Butchery. You might ask, "how can a township butchery be an ideal 'sundowner' spot'? Well if truth be told, this is no ordinary butchery- it's a place in the township to connect; anyone from Gugs is there, driving the oldest cars put together with sticky tape, or the latest BMW Z4.
Buy a drink at the hairdresser's next door sit down on the 'stoep' and listen to -undoubtedly the best - mix of funk, r&b and Kwaito lounge. You will probably hear it only next year in Camps Bay. Relax as you buy meat from the butchery; they will braai it on the premises in the back in what could almost be called a braai factory.
   
"Thando'll look after you"
The good thing for the sun downer time is that some of the kids have a great time there as well; 'Thando', a little 8 year old, smilingly told me he will look after you.
Mzoli's opens at 9am and closes around about 8pm- remember that you be coming here to have a sun downer drink on the block with the best atmosphere in Cape Town. No attitude or stuck up people, just down to earth people enjoying themselves. Just to be on the safe side, if you're not from Gugulethu, ask someone from Gugs to come with.
 
"Pictures to show their white friends at work, to show the white guys Gugs is safe to have a sun downer"
The butchery, opened early this year, is famous for attracting members of parliament, who want to be seen in the township and mostly black entrepreneurs, apart from virtually anyone of the locals from Gugs. Mzoli Ngcawuzela, owner of the butchery says the local community has supported him tremendously. "The people are very friendly because the environment is safe," he says. Some guys actually take pictures with their cell phone of the few white people that are there to show their white friends at work Gugs is actually safe and has the atmosphere..

http://web.archive.org/web/20071017064213/http://come2capetown.com/newsletter/oct/tourism.htm

Despite the PR, it doesn't seem to have been that safe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mzoli%27s

- Did they intend to have dinner there, then changed their minds to go to the other place? Or to simply pass by (e.g., with the intention of perhaps going on another day for lunch)?

I'd be surprised if they had intended to go for dinner there wearing jewellery.








Offline Carana

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 01:25:54 PM »

Police chief brands honeymoon murder suspect a 'monkey'
By Jo Adetunji

Friday 10 December 2010
      

South Africa's chief of police yesterday described the British widower of a tourist killed on honeymoon in Cape Town as a "monkey" as he insisted his force was right to consider him a murder suspect.

The national police commissioner, Bheki Cele, aimed his comments at Shrien Dewani, who was accused of arranging the murder of his wife, Anni Dewani, 28, while the couple honeymooned in South Africa last month.

Speaking in Limpopo province, Mr Cele said: "One monkey came from London to kill his wife here. He thought we South Africans were stupid. Don't kill people here."

Extradition lawyers said that it was not uncommon for foreign police in extradition cases to make negative comments on suspects and while Mr Cele's comments did not necessarily leave Mr Dewani open to an unfair trial if he is extradited, they did raise questions about whether the police could prejudice the case.

Mr Dewani, 30, was arrested by British police on behalf of the South African authorities after he voluntarily walked into a Bristol police station on Tuesday. The evidence against Mr Dewani rests on the testimony of the couple's taxi driver, Zola Tongo, who was sentenced to 18 years in prison after admitting his role in a plea bargain with South African prosecutors.

Tongo told the High Court in Cape Town that Mr Dewani hired him to drive the newlyweds through Gugulethu, a township notorious for violent crime, where two accomplices would stage a carjacking in which Tongo and Mr Dewani would be freed. He claimed Mr Dewani organised the hit shortly after arriving in South Africa, which Mr Dewani denies. Mrs Dewani's body was found with bullet wounds in the abandoned car.

The two alleged accomplices, Xolile Mnguni, 23, and Mzwamadoda Qwabe, 25, face charges including murder and kidnapping and will remain in custody until a hearing in February.

Mr Dewani, who was described as being in a "dreadful state" following the killing, is strongly supported by his family. He was granted bail on Wednesday after his relatives put up a 250,000 bond but he was taken back into custody after the South African government lodged an appeal his release. He remains in custody pending a High Court hearing today.

Senior district judge Howard Riddle said: "Either Mr Dewani over a period of time plotted the murder of his wife or he is one of the tragic victims of this incident." He added: "It is clear there is evidence that has been put before me and on the face of it, and I put it no higher than that, evidence on which a trial could evidently proceed."

Matters were further complicated after Mr Dewani's previous lawyer, Billy Gundelfinger, announced he was "amicably" withdrawing.

Mr Cele's comments could also spark criticism from those who believe the police are not doing enough to counter violent crime in South Africa and in particular the Gugulethu township. The South African Institute of Race Relations said the South African police were "out of touch with reality" last month after the force expressed shock at Mrs Dewani's murder.

"If they are truly shocked it suggests the police's senior management are out of touch with the reality of life on the ground for people in areas such as Gugulethu who have been left to run the gauntlet of violent crime," it said, adding that there had been 700 murders in the township since 2005.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-chief-brands-honeymoon-murder-suspect-a-monkey-2155939.html



Offline puglove

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2013, 11:18:17 PM »
But that requires her alive.

Unless it would be convenient for him to be a "grieving widower", too distraught to marry again.
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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2013, 09:20:32 PM »
Not that there has to be or should be, but is there any precedent for a widower going into a mental hospital sufferring from PTSD after his wife is killed and staying  there for years? Especially if he has been accused of setting the murder up?

Is there any rational explanation of why he would take his fiance/bride to a notriously dangerous area of SA at night to show her the sights? What sights? Those of rapes burglaries car jackings and murders? lovely honeymoon memento though....guilty as sin in my book

Correct me if Im wrong, wasnt he au fait with SA? And that was her first trip there?





 



« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 09:22:12 PM by Redblossom »

Offline Angelo222

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 02:41:50 AM »
One things for sure and that is he is on a one way trip back to South Africa and to his due desserts.
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Offline Carana

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2013, 10:31:49 AM »
Trial by media rules again...

Redblossom

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2013, 03:41:02 PM »
One things for sure and that is he is on a one way trip back to South Africa and to his due desserts.

Well obviously the judge ruling on the extradition believed there may be a case however diplomatically he put it! Snipped from Caranas post above

Quote

Senior district judge Howard Riddle said: "Either Mr Dewani over a period of time plotted the murder of his wife or he is one of the tragic victims of this incident." He added: "It is clear there is evidence that has been put before me and on the face of it, and I put it no higher than that, evidence on which a trial could evidently proceed."

Unquote


Redblossom

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Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2013, 03:45:30 PM »
Trial by media rules again...

Having and expressing  opinion is allowed last time I looked...and yes, there is going to be a trial in SA...in a court! The papers have kept quiet all in all, just reported the facts to date. And there is no sub judice in place either.