Abduction

[Alice Purjorick]

I was going to tack this onto the end of an existing thread but Cerberus said that thread was so old I should consider starting a new one. Oh well in for a penny and all that.

Here is another theory; or two or three or four.
Start Point: Most, well many, things are possible but the question of probable vs improbable is never far away.

The Pre-planned Snatch Theory
Any pre-planned snatch will have a similar framework cum activity list including but not limited to as we say.

The theory is contingent on certain items being a given i.e.:
1 There was abduction.
2 Abduction was commissioned by a rich type who specifically wanted MBM.
3 MBM was a heavy sleeper witness GM and MO both entering and leaving the apartment without awakening her, according to their statements.
4 According to the timeline drawn up by T9 there were two 10 minute slots after 21:15 when abduction could be effected.

Expressed in the first person with names for ease of identification, following the plot and it’s more fun that way.

Here we go then:

I am the contractor:
I am approached in the usual way by an intermediary with the usual hypothetical tale.” A certain person wishes to receive a young person to form part of their family it is said you may know how this may be effected and could put me in touch with etc…………”. I agree to meet a few hours later. I agree to meet after a bit of mucking about checking credentials etc. So a deal is agreed 50% fee up front 50% fee on completion paid into a numbered account. That is 50% in my bank before I even roll out of bed. The fee is mega nay giga-high based on the risk and potential sentencing for kidnap. I have the option to call it off at any time no fuss no muss returning the fee deposit less reasonable expenses.

What ?   Kidnap a nominated female child aged about four years.
Where?    Luz
When ?    Between 28th April 2007 and 5th May 2007
Who   ?      In house staffing; [bearing in mind the potential repercussions keep staffing to a minimum. No bought in resources as they have an inherent failing, to whit: they can be bought but the unknown is how long they will remain bought. We don’t have enough time for a good bit of coercion/blackmail].
so:
Self + Dolores + Chandler (maybe ?).
How?   Target timing: 3 days reccy; 1 day preparation, 1 day execution. Tight!
Equipment:  First pass: 2 burner phones, pick locks,1 holiday rental car from a big name company preferably a small hatchback. Two rolls of tape and a slack handful of cable ties. Fabric sling bag and fleece with OC logo for D. Overnight bag and associated bits for me. If Chandler is used he will need a car but it will be arranged by him. Chandler will also arrange his own burner phone.  Selection of low level disguises to alter superficial GISS.

Method:
Reconnaissance and Preparation
   
•   Reccy done by me and D out as a couple [no one takes too much notice of a pretty bloody average M&F couple wandering about a holiday resort; dress unobtrusively but similar to most other tourists of same age group as us]. Low level disguises. D with dark hair plus extensions me with unremarkable tosh and as usual I will be using several different styles of spectacles as I consider them a fashion accessory as well as a necessity. Chosen correctly, frame styles will alter the perceived shape of the face and head.
•   During the reccy we note:
1.   The parents dine with their friends in the evening leaving the subject in an unsecured apartment.
2.   The rear patio door is not secured allowing entrance to be effected by anyone. But there is a faff with child security gates and full drapes.
3.   Front door ? It can be dead bolted or latched but there is no way of knowing which has been done at any time. Our best guess is it left latched only.
4.   We are conversant with the lock type having the ability and tools to pick the lock if necessary.
5.   There is an ad hoc system of checking on the children by the parents during the dining period.
6.   The dining period is consistently in excess of two hours usually starting around 20:30.
7.   A check is made on the child routinely at 21:00 after which the checks appear random rather than timed.
8.   The windows to the apartment are shuttered. The shutters are not for security as they are not fitted with hasps staples and locks. Our knowledge of roller shutters tells us they can be raised from the outside but cannot be maintained in the raised position unless wedged.
9.   Effecting entry via the shutters presupposes the window behind the shutter has been left open.
10.   We consider effecting entrance via the shuttered window to be fraught with potential problems any one of which will leave us exposed so reject the idea.
11.   The resort has a protocol for reporting missing children the timescale of which will give us, we estimate 1 hour from the time the subject is found to be missing plus response time by the police say 75 minutes top whack.
12.   Working on the assumption the police will operate on the normal ripples on the pond principle they will begin searching close in working outwards. They may however alert the border post at the Guardiana Bridge so going into Spain by road will be a risk from the timing aspect.
13.   We decide to go east as that is the obvious choice giving the opportunity for double bluff if the police think we will not do it!

Preparation
•   The client is alerted, via the intermediary, the drop off will be at Santa Luzia waterfront. The act of drop off concludes the contract. Drive time 75 minutes.
•   D and I decide having Chandler along is a good backstop move.
•   Chandler is in and will arrange his own burner phone and car.
•   I rent a typical holiday hatchback from the Europcar desk at Faro Airport for a two day hire arranging the drop to be at Vila Real Santo Antonio.
•   I arrange a single hotel room in Vila Real Santo Antonio.
•   Check train times VRSA to Faro and Tavira to Faro.
•   The car rentals will be effected using bent IDs and credit card accounts.
Action Plan
•   The snatch will be made between 21:15 and  21:50
•   Chandler will park up in Luz and walk round to car park in front of 5A
•   D and I are parked up reversed in, motor running. Average M & F holiday couple in average holiday rental car just leaving or just returning.
•   The default position is AOK. The burner phones will only be used if there is a need to abort. If used the phones will be wiped disassembled wearing nodder gloves, then scattered.
•   Chandler walks by front of 5A turns right and downhill past apartment side entrance. D follows wearing fleece with OC logo and sling bag.
•   C and D both have sight AOK. C walks to OC Reception D enters apartment by patio door.
•   D effects snatch using tape and cable ties as required. Leaves through front door if only latched.
•   If dead bolted and key not present, D makes decision to either pick lock or leave via patio doors.
•   Chandler has entered OC reception to obtain leaflets on whatever comes to mind hanging around long enough to check no one is heading toward apartment side entrance.
•   On agreed time out duration Chandler continues downhill returns to his car and is in the wind.
•   D returns to car with child and we head to Santa Luzia.
•   Effect handover.
•   D dropped off in Tavira to catch train west using cash for ticket.
•   I continue to VRSA and check into hotel.
•   I return the car following day and catch the train to Faro.
•   All three of us return to wherever independently, meeting up afterward only when essential.

[I'll refrain from detailing the other snatch theory where the subject winds up in the lawless hinterland but alot of it will be common to above].

The Burglary Which Has Gone Wrong Theory:

•   Sentence for burglary if caught and convicted 5 years ish
•   Sentence for kidnap if caught and convicted  20 years ish
On that basis why would any burglar take a child instead of the easily negotiable goods and cash he went in for? Bearing in mind ca 80% of burglaries remain unsolved but a kidnapping?
The burglary has gone wrong and on the way in and out (unless the exit route was out front) the burglar makes time to reinstate doors gates and drapes……..was he under some kind of contractual reinstatement clause?

The Random Snatch Theory.

•   I’ll just pop in here to see if there is a child ………
Close.

p.s feel free to be abusive, hold it up to ridicule and shoot holes in it.
In fact the more you do the better I will enjoy it.








 

[Robittybob1]

What was the point of all that?  3 different theories all with abduction as part of the plot.  Or was it entering the apartment as part of the plot linking them together?

[Alice Purjorick]

What was the point of all that?  3 different theories all with abduction as part of the plot.  Or was it entering the apartment as part of the plot linking them together?

Your sort of response was the reason for it....................

[Robittybob1]

Your sort of response was the reason for it....................

Explain the true purpose please otherwise I recommend that the thread is closed.

[Robittybob1]

I feel the idea of an abduction secondary to an attempt to assist is more likely.  Someone finds Madeleine wandering or even injured and makes an effort to render assistance but with the presence of the PJ on the scene later keeps her hidden from then on.

[Alice Purjorick]

Explain the true purpose please otherwise I recommend that the thread is closed.

The purpose has been stated quite clearly but if you want to stand on your dignity and have a mardy then recommend the thread is closed it's no skin off my nose squire.

[Robittybob1]

The purpose has been stated quite clearly but if you want to stand on your dignity and have a mardy then recommend the thread is closed it's no skin off my nose squire.

Is this the purpose you speak of "Start Point: Most, well many, things are possible but the question of probable vs improbable is never far away."  Are we to consider probable verse improbable aspects of each theory?

[ShiningInLuz]

I was going to tack this onto the end of an existing thread but Cerberus said that thread was so old I should consider starting a new one. Oh well in for a penny and all that.

Here is another theory; or two or three or four.
Start Point: Most, well many, things are possible but the question of probable vs improbable is never far away.

The Pre-planned Snatch Theory
Any pre-planned snatch will have a similar framework cum activity list including but not limited to as we say.

The theory is contingent on certain items being a given i.e.:
1 There was abduction.
2 Abduction was commissioned by a rich type who specifically wanted MBM.
3 MBM was a heavy sleeper witness GM and MO both entering and leaving the apartment without awakening her, according to their statements.
4 According to the timeline drawn up by T9 there were two 10 minute slots after 21:15 when abduction could be effected.

Expressed in the first person with names for ease of identification, following the plot and it’s more fun that way.

Here we go then:

I am the contractor:
I am approached in the usual way by an intermediary with the usual hypothetical tale.” A certain person wishes to receive a young person to form part of their family it is said you may know how this may be effected and could put me in touch with etc…………”. I agree to meet a few hours later. I agree to meet after a bit of mucking about checking credentials etc. So a deal is agreed 50% fee up front 50% fee on completion paid into a numbered account. That is 50% in my bank before I even roll out of bed. The fee is mega nay giga-high based on the risk and potential sentencing for kidnap. I have the option to call it off at any time no fuss no muss returning the fee deposit less reasonable expenses.

What ?   Kidnap a nominated female child aged about four years.
Where?    Luz
When ?    Between 28th April 2007 and 5th May 2007
Who   ?      In house staffing; [bearing in mind the potential repercussions keep staffing to a minimum. No bought in resources as they have an inherent failing, to whit: they can be bought but the unknown is how long they will remain bought. We don’t have enough time for a good bit of coercion/blackmail].
so:
Self + Dolores + Chandler (maybe ?).
How?   Target timing: 3 days reccy; 1 day preparation, 1 day execution. Tight!
Equipment:  First pass: 2 burner phones, pick locks,1 holiday rental car from a big name company preferably a small hatchback. Two rolls of tape and a slack handful of cable ties. Fabric sling bag and fleece with OC logo for D. Overnight bag and associated bits for me. If Chandler is used he will need a car but it will be arranged by him. Chandler will also arrange his own burner phone.  Selection of low level disguises to alter superficial GISS.

Method:
Reconnaissance and Preparation
   
•   Reccy done by me and D out as a couple [no one takes too much notice of a pretty bloody average M&F couple wandering about a holiday resort; dress unobtrusively but similar to most other tourists of same age group as us]. Low level disguises. D with dark hair plus extensions me with unremarkable tosh and as usual I will be using several different styles of spectacles as I consider them a fashion accessory as well as a necessity. Chosen correctly, frame styles will alter the perceived shape of the face and head.
•   During the reccy we note:
1.   The parents dine with their friends in the evening leaving the subject in an unsecured apartment.
2.   The rear patio door is not secured allowing entrance to be effected by anyone. But there is a faff with child security gates and full drapes.
3.   Front door ? It can be dead bolted or latched but there is no way of knowing which has been done at any time. Our best guess is it left latched only.
4.   We are conversant with the lock type having the ability and tools to pick the lock if necessary.
5.   There is an ad hoc system of checking on the children by the parents during the dining period.
6.   The dining period is consistently in excess of two hours usually starting around 20:30.
7.   A check is made on the child routinely at 21:00 after which the checks appear random rather than timed.
8.   The windows to the apartment are shuttered. The shutters are not for security as they are not fitted with hasps staples and locks. Our knowledge of roller shutters tells us they can be raised from the outside but cannot be maintained in the raised position unless wedged.
9.   Effecting entry via the shutters presupposes the window behind the shutter has been left open.
10.   We consider effecting entrance via the shuttered window to be fraught with potential problems any one of which will leave us exposed so reject the idea.
11.   The resort has a protocol for reporting missing children the timescale of which will give us, we estimate 1 hour from the time the subject is found to be missing plus response time by the police say 75 minutes top whack.
12.   Working on the assumption the police will operate on the normal ripples on the pond principle they will begin searching close in working outwards. They may however alert the border post at the Guardiana Bridge so going into Spain by road will be a risk from the timing aspect.
13.   We decide to go east as that is the obvious choice giving the opportunity for double bluff if the police think we will not do it!

Preparation
•   The client is alerted, via the intermediary, the drop off will be at Santa Luzia waterfront. The act of drop off concludes the contract. Drive time 75 minutes.
•   D and I decide having Chandler along is a good backstop move.
•   Chandler is in and will arrange his own burner phone and car.
•   I rent a typical holiday hatchback from the Europcar desk at Faro Airport for a two day hire arranging the drop to be at Vila Real Santo Antonio.
•   I arrange a single hotel room in Vila Real Santo Antonio.
•   Check train times VRSA to Faro and Tavira to Faro.
•   The car rentals will be effected using bent IDs and credit card accounts.
Action Plan
•   The snatch will be made between 21:15 and  21:50
•   Chandler will park up in Luz and walk round to car park in front of 5A
•   D and I are parked up reversed in, motor running. Average M & F holiday couple in average holiday rental car just leaving or just returning.
•   The default position is AOK. The burner phones will only be used if there is a need to abort. If used the phones will be wiped disassembled wearing nodder gloves, then scattered.
•   Chandler walks by front of 5A turns right and downhill past apartment side entrance. D follows wearing fleece with OC logo and sling bag.
•   C and D both have sight AOK. C walks to OC Reception D enters apartment by patio door.
•   D effects snatch using tape and cable ties as required. Leaves through front door if only latched.
•   If dead bolted and key not present, D makes decision to either pick lock or leave via patio doors.
•   Chandler has entered OC reception to obtain leaflets on whatever comes to mind hanging around long enough to check no one is heading toward apartment side entrance.
•   On agreed time out duration Chandler continues downhill returns to his car and is in the wind.
•   D returns to car with child and we head to Santa Luzia.
•   Effect handover.
•   D dropped off in Tavira to catch train west using cash for ticket.
•   I continue to VRSA and check into hotel.
•   I return the car following day and catch the train to Faro.
•   All three of us return to wherever independently, meeting up afterward only when essential.

[I'll refrain from detailing the other snatch theory where the subject winds up in the lawless hinterland but alot of it will be common to above].

The Burglary Which Has Gone Wrong Theory:

•   Sentence for burglary if caught and convicted 5 years ish
•   Sentence for kidnap if caught and convicted  20 years ish
On that basis why would any burglar take a child instead of the easily negotiable goods and cash he went in for? Bearing in mind ca 80% of burglaries remain unsolved but a kidnapping?
The burglary has gone wrong and on the way in and out (unless the exit route was out front) the burglar makes time to reinstate doors gates and drapes……..was he under some kind of contractual reinstatement clause?

The Random Snatch Theory.

•   I’ll just pop in here to see if there is a child ………
Close.

p.s feel free to be abusive, hold it up to ridicule and shoot holes in it.
In fact the more you do the better I will enjoy it.

Somewhat over-elaborate, but there are interesting points to contemplate.

If Madeleine was snatched as part of a contract, how did the purchaser connect to the snatchers and specify the details of the child to be snatched?  (I don't mean 'by phone'.  If one want a child snatched, one has to know child-snatchers, and explain one is willing to exchange a child for cash.  How does one find some child-snatchers?)

The bank accounts angle also interests me.  Thus far, I cannot see anyone who got wealthy when Madeleine disappeared, though money flowed into the Find Madeleine coffers, and various people got large sums from the media.  What I am not seeing is someone getting wealthy from the direct activity of child snatching.  There is no cash trail, as far as I can see.

[Brietta]

Somewhat over-elaborate, but there are interesting points to contemplate.

If Madeleine was snatched as part of a contract, how did the purchaser connect to the snatchers and specify the details of the child to be snatched?  (I don't mean 'by phone'.  If one want a child snatched, one has to know child-snatchers, and explain one is willing to exchange a child for cash.  How does one find some child-snatchers?)

The bank accounts angle also interests me.  Thus far, I cannot see anyone who got wealthy when Madeleine disappeared, though money flowed into the Find Madeleine coffers, and various people got large sums from the media.  What I am not seeing is someone getting wealthy from the direct activity of child snatching.  There is no cash trail, as far as I can see.

There is probably a great deal going on behind the scenes that just isn't know about.
However if there was money to be made from kidnapping a child I doubt very much if it went into locally building a new pool or a new villa even buying new wheels without other visible means of funding.

Also if the authorities are not allowed to carry out a 'forensic' evaluation of suspect's accounts or search their homes ... there is not the slightest possibility of any discrepancies being uncovered.

In my opinion your reference to money flowing into Madeleine's coffers is a demeaning one and totally out of context.  As any money changing hands due to the sale of a little girl would not happen openly and above board but is of necessity a very dark business indeed.

Don't delude yourself that there is a corner of the world where fortunes are not made using such practices and don't delude yourself if that was Madeleine's fate, she will ever be the last victim.
 

Snip
Met detectives reportedly requested the men’s bank details and asked local officers to quiz the trio and search their homes.

But the judge who dealt with the requests ‘did not consider Scotland Yard’s arguments valid,’ local sources said.

A spokesman for the Attorney General’s Office in Portugal said: ‘The content of the requests formulated by the British authorities is confidential.’

//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622233/British-police-leading-hunt-Madeleine-McCann-banned-searching-homes-burglary-suspects.html#ixzz5355itr39

[ShiningInLuz]

There is probably a great deal going on behind the scenes that just isn't know about.
However if there was money to be made from kidnapping a child I doubt very much if it went into locally building a new pool or a new villa even buying new wheels without other visible means of funding.

Also if the authorities are not allowed to carry out a 'forensic' evaluation of suspect's accounts or search their homes ... there is not the slightest possibility of any discrepancies being uncovered.

In my opinion your reference to money flowing into Madeleine's coffers is a demeaning one and totally out of context.  As any money changing hands due to the sale of a little girl would not happen openly and above board but is of necessity a very dark business indeed.

Don't delude yourself that there is a corner of the world where fortunes are not made using such practices and don't delude yourself if that was Madeleine's fate, she will ever be the last victim.
 

Snip
Met detectives reportedly requested the men’s bank details and asked local officers to quiz the trio and search their homes.

But the judge who dealt with the requests ‘did not consider Scotland Yard’s arguments valid,’ local sources said.

A spokesman for the Attorney General’s Office in Portugal said: ‘The content of the requests formulated by the British authorities is confidential.’

//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622233/British-police-leading-hunt-Madeleine-McCann-banned-searching-homes-burglary-suspects.html#ixzz5355itr39

Frankly, I find your reply to be crass in the extreme.  I have never reported a post, but if you repeat this, I will have no choice but to make an exception.

'The trio' are not wealthy by any standards.  I can take you to meet all 3, if you would care to stop pontificating and face up to reality.  I know where they live.  I know what they eat.  I know what they drink.

If they made money from Madeleine's disappearance, they are still sitting on their nest egg 11 years on.

I really don't care about your opinion of money flowing into the Find Madeleine Fund.  It did.  Fact.

As to why these men's houses should be searched and their bank records analysed?  Please get real.

[Robittybob1]

"One theory is that the burglars raided the McCanns’ flat and were panicked into snatching the youngster when she woke up.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622233/British-police-leading-hunt-Madeleine-McCann-banned-searching-homes-burglary-suspects.html#ixzz535Mn7mFs "

I still think a more probable outcome is they desisted from their burglary when Madeleine woke up and she went to find her mum over at the Tapas, and for some reason she didn't get that far.
There was Kate's evidence of an attempted break in, no evidence found by the PJ of anyone going through the window.  Once the front door has been opened by Madeleine someone else closed it after her and left via the patio door.   For the front door appears to have been closed when Kate did her check.

[Brietta]

Frankly, I find your reply to be crass in the extreme.  I have never reported a post, but if you repeat this, I will have no choice but to make an exception.

'The trio' are not wealthy by any standards.  I can take you to meet all 3, if you would care to stop pontificating and face up to reality.  I know where they live.  I know what they eat.  I know what they drink.

If they made money from Madeleine's disappearance, they are still sitting on their nest egg 11 years on.

I really don't care about your opinion of money flowing into the Find Madeleine Fund.  It did.  Fact.

As to why these men's houses should be searched and their bank records analysed?  Please get real.

I'm not terribly sure which part of my post has offended you; I did not raise the present situation in Luz ... you did; I did not raise the issue of bank accounts etc ... you did; I did not drop money donated to Madeleine's fund into the mix ... you did.

There were arguidos named and questioned by the Policia Judiciaria in 2014 in relation to Madeleine's disappearance ... that is a fact.
That was hardly anything to do with me so why on earth you have gone of on one on that is beyond mysterious to me.

Allegedly Scotland yard were not allowed to search their dwellings nor allegedly were Scotland Yard allowed to see their bank accounts.
Have I got that wrong ... or is that exactly what the cite I have provided says?

You leap to the defence of three men involved in criminal activities who the police wished to question as suspects in a missing child case ... that is fine by me if that is what you wish to be seen doing.

Snip
The Portuguese Attorney General has received a formal International Letter of Request from British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

It is thought officers from the Met want to locate and question three burglars who were operating in Praia da Luz after mobile records revealed they had made an unusually high number of phone calls to each other shortly after the little girl disappeared.

Joana Marques Vidal confirmed the letter, which was sent on 10 January had been passed to a Portuguese court for consideration, ITV reports.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/24/madeleine-mccann-news-three-burglars-face-questioning-portuguese-authorities-met-request_n_4657584.html

Please be my guest and report away ... I certainly am agog to discover what you find "crass in the extreme" about my post to precipitate your reaction.

[slartibartfast]

Snip

Also if the authorities are not allowed to carry out a 'forensic' evaluation of suspect's accounts or search their homes ... there is not the slightest possibility of any discrepancies being uncovered.

Snip

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/request-to-investigate-gerry-s-accounts-is-dis-08--t9456.html

[Mr Gray]

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/request-to-investigate-gerry-s-accounts-is-dis-08--t9456.html

Francs Kennah, a senior official at the 'UK Central Authority', clarifies that after pondering over the coercive measures, the cabinet does not see a motive to concede the requested authorisation, considering that the request is not justified and seems disproportionate. The British authorities solicit a new clarification from Portugal, but it is not sent and the process is archived a little over a month later.

If the PJ could not be bothered to clarify the request what did they expect

[Mr Gray]

Based on all the evidence I think abduction by a stranger is by far the most probable thing that happenend.
AS to exactly how and why....who knows. To me its like watching magician on TV...we see something that is difficult if not impossible to explain but we know it happenend. When we find out how it was  done we realise how simple it was.