Author Topic: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence  (Read 108187 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #855 on: March 17, 2018, 03:49:54 PM »
In the documentary it reveals that the dog alerted to the car space of Gilroy (where the boot would have been) and later also alerted to the boot of his car.

Then the TV programme is sensationalising the alerts and is not accurate....the dog never alerted in the boot of the car ...unless sniffing is now classed as an alert. THe alerts played little or no part in the prosecution...According to the SCCRC the conviction would have been made without the alerts...and its clear from the evidence that  that is the case

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #856 on: March 17, 2018, 03:59:51 PM »
. In this series, Robbie Coltrane reveals eight of the hardest, most complex and baffling murder cases ever to be investigated by British police

was this case really one of the hardest and most complex........it was fairly obvious early on who the main suspect was and it really was the CCTV that was the critical evidence that cracked the case....imo

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #857 on: March 17, 2018, 11:41:33 PM »
Then the TV programme is sensationalising the alerts and is not accurate....the dog never alerted in the boot of the car ...unless sniffing is now classed as an alert. THe alerts played little or no part in the prosecution...According to the SCCRC the conviction would have been made without the alerts...and its clear from the evidence that  that is the case

On 23 February 2012, the advocate depute led evidence from a Lothian and Borders Police constable who told the court that they had enlisted the help of specially trained cadaver dogs from South Yorkshire Police to search the offices where David Gilroy and Suzanne Pilley worked. The dogs were specially trained to smell for blood and human remains. The court was told that the dogs, springer spaniels, had identified three areas of interest; one in the basement area of the offices, and two in the boot of David Gilroy's silver Vauxhall vectra.

http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g/gilroy-david.htm

"Our use of the cadaver dog is certainly groundbreaking." Detective superintendent Gary Flannigan

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13050602.David_Gilroy__how_police_solved_a_murder_mystery/

A “VICTIM recovery” dog which reacted positively in the search for missing bookkeeper Suzanne Pilley had once located a body under nine feet of water, a jury has heard.

Buster, a springer spaniel, and his police handler were taken to Edinburgh from their base in South Yorkshire to help the inquiry into Ms Pilley’s disappearance, and he searched the basement garage at her work. PC Simone Thompson, 44, said her dog showed interest in a number of areas of the garage and an internal staircase which led to the offices in the building. “It signified he was locating the scent of what he was trained for … human remains and human blood scent,” said PC Thompson.

Asked about previous operations in which Buster had taken part, PC Thompson said she had had “some very good results” with him and that he had “done extremely well”. She recounted an inquiry in which a woman had been reported missing by her husband. “We were requested to search a stretch of fast-flowing river. From the bank, Buster gave a positive indication. The dog was adamant there was an indication at that point. The underwater search team attended and, at the point Buster had indicated, the missing female was found in nine feet of water,” said PC Thompson.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/suzanne-cadaver-dog-once-found-body-in-9ft-of-water-1-2156838
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #858 on: March 18, 2018, 12:30:16 AM »
On 23 February 2012, the advocate depute led evidence from a Lothian and Borders Police constable who told the court that they had enlisted the help of specially trained cadaver dogs from South Yorkshire Police to search the offices where David Gilroy and Suzanne Pilley worked. The dogs were specially trained to smell for blood and human remains. The court was told that the dogs, springer spaniels, had identified three areas of interest; one in the basement area of the offices, and two in the boot of David Gilroy's silver Vauxhall vectra.

http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g/gilroy-david.htm

"Our use of the cadaver dog is certainly groundbreaking." Detective superintendent Gary Flannigan

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13050602.David_Gilroy__how_police_solved_a_murder_mystery/

A “VICTIM recovery” dog which reacted positively in the search for missing bookkeeper Suzanne Pilley had once located a body under nine feet of water, a jury has heard.

Buster, a springer spaniel, and his police handler were taken to Edinburgh from their base in South Yorkshire to help the inquiry into Ms Pilley’s disappearance, and he searched the basement garage at her work. PC Simone Thompson, 44, said her dog showed interest in a number of areas of the garage and an internal staircase which led to the offices in the building. “It signified he was locating the scent of what he was trained for … human remains and human blood scent,” said PC Thompson.

Asked about previous operations in which Buster had taken part, PC Thompson said she had had “some very good results” with him and that he had “done extremely well”. She recounted an inquiry in which a woman had been reported missing by her husband. “We were requested to search a stretch of fast-flowing river. From the bank, Buster gave a positive indication. The dog was adamant there was an indication at that point. The underwater search team attended and, at the point Buster had indicated, the missing female was found in nine feet of water,” said PC Thompson.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/suzanne-cadaver-dog-once-found-body-in-9ft-of-water-1-2156838

If certain posters think that OG will treat the dog alerts as unimportant are they are obviously fooling themselves.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #859 on: March 18, 2018, 01:02:37 AM »
If certain posters think that OG will treat the dog alerts as unimportant are they are obviously fooling themselves.

Members should be in no doubt that there was a catalogue of evidence which supported the Crown case and it was that cumulative evidence which enabled the guilty verdict to be returned on Gilroy.

Any who believe that Gilroy's case ... or any other ... stands or falls on dogs indicating an interest rather than other substantive and compelling evidence, in my opinion fail to understand the rule of law and the amount of investigative work and corroboration required before a case can be brought to court and a verdict reached.

In other words ... they simply misunderstand the evidence and the role it plays in securing justice.


How surveillance society solved a murder with no body

By Steven Brocklehurst - BBC.co.uk

April 17, 2012

Two years ago, Suzanne Pilley disappeared on her way to work in the centre of Edinburgh. Her body was never discovered but her killer was convicted last month after his movements were traced by a range of surveillance devices. On Wednesday, David Gilroy was sentenced to a minimum of 18 years before he can apply for parole.

CCTV footage, mobile phone records, emails, shop receipts - our everyday routine leaves an "electronic footprint".

David Gilroy went to great lengths to cover his tracks after he killed Suzanne Pilley in May 2010.

But an extraordinary police investigation tracked his movements in the smallest of detail.

CCTV footage from a supermarket two days before Suzanne's disappearance shows the pair buying groceries for a meal near her flat.

What looks on the screen to be an unremarkable domestic scene is in fact his last desperate attempt to resurrect the relationship.

Gilroy, a married man, had been having a secret relationship with his work colleague for about a year but she had been trying to end it.

That night they had a massive row and two days later he killed her.

At 08:19 on Tuesday 4 May, Suzanne's final commute to work was captured by CCTV cameras which track virtually every bus passenger in the Scottish capital.

She had spent the night with a new man whom she had recently met.

Suzanne got off the bus at 08:49 and was picked up by other CCTV cameras as she walked the last part of her journey to work.

She was seen going into a supermarket before she finally disappeared from view.

Specialist CCTV analysts looked at images from 84 cameras in the area and built up a case that a tiny image of Suzanne could be seen from a distant camera as she entered her work.

Gilroy had spent the previous few weeks besieging her with numerous texts and voicemails, desperate to continue their relationship.

Police were able to recover everything left on her phone, even though the phone itself has never been found.

Gilroy knew there were no CCTV cameras at the place where he and Pilley worked.

However, CCTV cameras on properties outside the building show him going in and out of the basement garage.

The man who quickly became a suspect had arrived at work by bus but later made excuses to go home and collect his car.

Later he was caught by CCTV having just bought four air fresheners.

Police believe Gilroy lured Suzanne to the basement and killed her.

He then hid her body in a stairwell before later transferring it to the boot of his car.

Specialist cadaver dogs were used to search the basement and garage of the building.

They found areas of interest but no DNA or forensics.

Before Gilroy went home he went to his computer and arranged an appointment which would require him to drive about 130 miles to Lochgilphead in rural Argyll the next day.

The killer then went home and acted naturally.

CCTV images even caught him attending a school concert and a restaurant that evening.

Police reconstructed Gilroy's trip to Argyll on 5 May through CCTV at various places along the route, such as when he stopped for petrol.

Officers had to trawl for CCTV footage from hundreds of cameras - not just on the main route to Lochgilphead but surrounding roads as well.

It was a route Gilroy took regularly but on this occasion he went much further north than the direct route and police were suspicious.

Gilroy's mobile phone was later seized by police, along with his car.

Experts found that the phone had been switched off between Stirling and Inveraray and the same on the way back.

Police suspected Gilroy had deliberately switched his phone off to conceal his movements while he did a "reccy" for a site to dispose of Suzanne's body. He repeated this on his way back when he actually buried the body.

But Gilroy did not realise that his car would provide more clues that he had been driving along rough forest tracks.

Damage to the suspension, scrape marks on the underside of the car and vegetation attached to the car were all clues of his off-road activities.

Police reckoned that the average time for the journey between Tyndrum and Inveraray was 36 minutes.

CCTV analysis of the time taken by Gilroy indicated that he took five hours and eight minutes.

Footage from CCTV also showed that an umbrella on the back parcel shelf of his car, probably put there when Suzanne's body was placed in the boot, disappeared from view on the return journey, having been placed back in the boot.

Despite extensive searches, Suzanne's body was never found.

However, due to the cumulative evidence built up in the police investigation, Gilroy was convicted at the High Court in Edinburgh last month.

On Wednesday, he was given a life sentence with a minimum of 18 years before he can apply for parole.
http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g/gilroy-david.htm
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 01:05:38 AM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #860 on: March 18, 2018, 01:42:31 AM »
Members should be in no doubt that there was a catalogue of evidence which supported the Crown case and it was that cumulative evidence which enabled the guilty verdict to be returned on Gilroy.

Any who believe that Gilroy's case ... or any other ... stands or falls on dogs indicating an interest rather than other substantive and compelling evidence, in my opinion fail to understand the rule of law and the amount of investigative work and corroboration required before a case can be brought to court and a verdict reached.

In other words ... they simply misunderstand the evidence and the role it plays in securing justice.


How surveillance society solved a murder with no body

By Steven Brocklehurst - BBC.co.uk

April 17, 2012

Two years ago, Suzanne Pilley disappeared on her way to work in the centre of Edinburgh. Her body was never discovered but her killer was convicted last month after his movements were traced by a range of surveillance devices. On Wednesday, David Gilroy was sentenced to a minimum of 18 years before he can apply for parole.

CCTV footage, mobile phone records, emails, shop receipts - our everyday routine leaves an "electronic footprint".

David Gilroy went to great lengths to cover his tracks after he killed Suzanne Pilley in May 2010.

But an extraordinary police investigation tracked his movements in the smallest of detail.

CCTV footage from a supermarket two days before Suzanne's disappearance shows the pair buying groceries for a meal near her flat.

What looks on the screen to be an unremarkable domestic scene is in fact his last desperate attempt to resurrect the relationship.

Gilroy, a married man, had been having a secret relationship with his work colleague for about a year but she had been trying to end it.

That night they had a massive row and two days later he killed her.

At 08:19 on Tuesday 4 May, Suzanne's final commute to work was captured by CCTV cameras which track virtually every bus passenger in the Scottish capital.

She had spent the night with a new man whom she had recently met.

Suzanne got off the bus at 08:49 and was picked up by other CCTV cameras as she walked the last part of her journey to work.

She was seen going into a supermarket before she finally disappeared from view.

Specialist CCTV analysts looked at images from 84 cameras in the area and built up a case that a tiny image of Suzanne could be seen from a distant camera as she entered her work.

Gilroy had spent the previous few weeks besieging her with numerous texts and voicemails, desperate to continue their relationship.

Police were able to recover everything left on her phone, even though the phone itself has never been found.

Gilroy knew there were no CCTV cameras at the place where he and Pilley worked.

However, CCTV cameras on properties outside the building show him going in and out of the basement garage.

The man who quickly became a suspect had arrived at work by bus but later made excuses to go home and collect his car.

Later he was caught by CCTV having just bought four air fresheners.

Police believe Gilroy lured Suzanne to the basement and killed her.

He then hid her body in a stairwell before later transferring it to the boot of his car.

Specialist cadaver dogs were used to search the basement and garage of the building.

They found areas of interest but no DNA or forensics.

Before Gilroy went home he went to his computer and arranged an appointment which would require him to drive about 130 miles to Lochgilphead in rural Argyll the next day.

The killer then went home and acted naturally.

CCTV images even caught him attending a school concert and a restaurant that evening.

Police reconstructed Gilroy's trip to Argyll on 5 May through CCTV at various places along the route, such as when he stopped for petrol.

Officers had to trawl for CCTV footage from hundreds of cameras - not just on the main route to Lochgilphead but surrounding roads as well.

It was a route Gilroy took regularly but on this occasion he went much further north than the direct route and police were suspicious.

Gilroy's mobile phone was later seized by police, along with his car.

Experts found that the phone had been switched off between Stirling and Inveraray and the same on the way back.

Police suspected Gilroy had deliberately switched his phone off to conceal his movements while he did a "reccy" for a site to dispose of Suzanne's body. He repeated this on his way back when he actually buried the body.

But Gilroy did not realise that his car would provide more clues that he had been driving along rough forest tracks.

Damage to the suspension, scrape marks on the underside of the car and vegetation attached to the car were all clues of his off-road activities.

Police reckoned that the average time for the journey between Tyndrum and Inveraray was 36 minutes.

CCTV analysis of the time taken by Gilroy indicated that he took five hours and eight minutes.

Footage from CCTV also showed that an umbrella on the back parcel shelf of his car, probably put there when Suzanne's body was placed in the boot, disappeared from view on the return journey, having been placed back in the boot.

Despite extensive searches, Suzanne's body was never found.

However, due to the cumulative evidence built up in the police investigation, Gilroy was convicted at the High Court in Edinburgh last month.

On Wednesday, he was given a life sentence with a minimum of 18 years before he can apply for parole.
http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g/gilroy-david.htm

The evidence which convicted Gilroy was indeed cumulative but the cadaver dog alerts were seen as a key piece of that cumulative evidence. There was no body or forensic evidence, just as in the McCann case but, just again as in the McCann case, there was strong indications from a cadaver dog. We have no idea whether at this very moment OG are building the same kind of cumulative case that brought Gilroy to justice, with the cadaver dog indications, again, as a central plank.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Lace

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #861 on: March 18, 2018, 08:12:54 AM »
The evidence which convicted Gilroy was indeed cumulative but the cadaver dog alerts were seen as a key piece of that cumulative evidence. There was no body or forensic evidence, just as in the McCann case but, just again as in the McCann case, there was strong indications from a cadaver dog. We have no idea whether at this very moment OG are building the same kind of cumulative case that brought Gilroy to justice, with the cadaver dog indications, again, as a central plank.

Where does it say the cadaver dog indications were 'strong'   the article said - 

They found areas of interest but no DNA or forensics.unquote.

Areas of interest.   Which could have been the scent of blood or cadaver.   That without a body would not have been accepted.

All the other information they had on him sealed it for the police.

Plus the fact that she hasn't been heard of again. 

I doubt very much if the police are building up the same sort of evidence against the McCann's.  what evidence would that be?

Offline Lace

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #862 on: March 18, 2018, 08:14:59 AM »
If certain posters think that OG will treat the dog alerts as unimportant are they are obviously fooling themselves.

They will treat them as unimportant as that is what they are.   IMO

Gilroy case -    One strand was fully and professionally examined by the SCCRC. They concluded that the evidence given by the dog handler was unreliable. They say that evidence should not have been before the trial court. However, they also say that the absence of the dog evidence would not have changed the guilty verdict. That verdict was by a majority so some jurors did not agree that the case against him had been proved.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 08:20:45 AM by Lace »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #863 on: March 18, 2018, 08:21:27 AM »
. In this series, Robbie Coltrane reveals eight of the hardest, most complex and baffling murder cases ever to be investigated by British police

was this case really one of the hardest and most complex........it was fairly obvious early on who the main suspect was and it really was the CCTV that was the critical evidence that cracked the case....imo

The CCTV evidence strongly suggested that Suzanne Pilley was heading to work, but it didn't prove she arrived there. In fact Gilroy's family seemed to be suggesting a possible alternative;

They are questioning key aspects of the case including the critical CCTV recordings that placed Ms Pilley within minutes of her workplace on the day she disappeared and have claimed a small blue car seen near their Thistle Street office on the same morning has never been found.
http://gilroyfamily.info/archive.asp

It was the dog alerts which suggested she did arrive, died, and was removed in Gilroy's car.

He seems to have been a cool customer as he showed no outward signs of what he had done. His workmates noticed nothing unusual in his behaviour, I believe, and;

After killing Pilley, Gilroy is thought to have kept her body in the boot of his car overnight while he attended a family dinner and a school concert.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr/18/david-gilroy-jailed-murder-suzanne-pilley
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Offline Brietta

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #864 on: March 18, 2018, 09:32:00 AM »
The CCTV evidence strongly suggested that Suzanne Pilley was heading to work, but it didn't prove she arrived there. In fact Gilroy's family seemed to be suggesting a possible alternative;

They are questioning key aspects of the case including the critical CCTV recordings that placed Ms Pilley within minutes of her workplace on the day she disappeared and have claimed a small blue car seen near their Thistle Street office on the same morning has never been found.
http://gilroyfamily.info/archive.asp

It was the dog alerts which suggested she did arrive, died, and was removed in Gilroy's car.

He seems to have been a cool customer as he showed no outward signs of what he had done. His workmates noticed nothing unusual in his behaviour, I believe, and;

After killing Pilley, Gilroy is thought to have kept her body in the boot of his car overnight while he attended a family dinner and a school concert.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr/18/david-gilroy-jailed-murder-suzanne-pilley

Snip
Gilroy's mistake was to underestimate the huge electronic footprint that became a compelling body of evidence.


Snip
He hid her body in a recess under a stairwell.

Then he began his cover up.

Colleagues described him as seeming clammy, sweaty and with scratches on his neck and face. But he got his act together.

He made an excuse to go home and collect the car. He bought air freshners in Superdrug on Princes Street.

He used make-up to cover scratch marks on his hands.

He adjusted his diary to give him a reason to go to Argyll the following day.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-17358340



In my opinion anyone promoting that the case brought against Gilroy rested on "dog evidence" is entirely wrong and shows a clear misunderstanding of what constitutes evidence.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Carana

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #865 on: March 18, 2018, 09:37:08 AM »
If certain posters think that OG will treat the dog alerts as unimportant are they are obviously fooling themselves.

I would have thought that by July 2013, the Met had had time to review the potential significance of the alerts.

"Over the last two years what the review has told me is that there is no clear, definitive proof that Madeleine McCann is dead," Det Ch Insp Redwood said.

"So on that basis, I still genuinely believe that there is a possibility that she is alive."

He added: "It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation."

4 July 2013
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23179230

By March 2014 the view that she might still be alive appears to have been tempered by the focus on smellyman. Who, AFAIK, still hasn't been identified.

I don't see a huge amount of importance attached to the dog alerts.

UK police in Madeleine McCann case probe new intruder link
Sarah Young
March 19, 2014


LONDON (Reuters) - British detectives investigating the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine McCann said they were looking for a man suspected of carrying out a series of sexual assaults on young girls staying in Portuguese holiday villas between 2004 and 2010.
Kate and Gerry McCann pose with a computer generated image of how their missing daughter Madeleine might look now, during a news conference in London May 2, 2012. REUTERS/Andrew Winning

McCann, then aged three, went missing from her bedroom at the Praia da Luz holiday resort in the Algarve region while her parents were dining with friends at a nearby restaurant, leading to a global search that gripped the world’s media.

London police, who started a review of the case in 2011 and began their own investigation last year, said on Wednesday they were looking for more information about 12 crimes committed in Portuguese holiday resorts.

In four cases between 2004 and 2006 a man sexually assaulted five white girls, aged between 7 and 10 years, in their beds, in three different Algarve resorts, police said. Two of the 12 offences were committed in Praia da Luz.

“We need to eliminate this man from our enquiries and ascertain whether these offences are linked to Madeleine’s disappearance,” Andy Redwood, senior investigating officer at London’s Metropolitan Police Service, told a news briefing.

The man, described as being tanned with short, dark, unkempt hair, spoke English with a foreign accent and would appear early in the morning. In some incidents, he was disturbed and left.

“This an offender who has got a very, very unhealthy interest in young, white female children who he’s attacking while they’re on holiday in their beds,” Redwood said.

“ALL OPTIONS” OPEN

Redwood said the new appeal for information on the man who carried out the attacks was just one of the “priority lines” of inquiry currently being pursued. British police are also in contact with their counterparts in Spain, Belgium, Jersey, Switzerland, Netherlands and Germany over the case.

British Prime Minister David Cameron ordered a new investigation by London police after the McCanns wrote to him three years ago saying neither British nor Portuguese authorities had done enough to try to find their daughter.

Redwood said McCann might have long been dead.

“There is always the potential that she didn’t leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options,” he said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-mccann/uk-police-in-madeleine-mccann-case-probe-new-intruder-link-idUSBREA2I1D220140319

Offline G-Unit

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #866 on: March 18, 2018, 10:25:17 AM »
Snip
Gilroy's mistake was to underestimate the huge electronic footprint that became a compelling body of evidence.


Snip
He hid her body in a recess under a stairwell.

Then he began his cover up.

Colleagues described him as seeming clammy, sweaty and with scratches on his neck and face. But he got his act together.

He made an excuse to go home and collect the car. He bought air freshners in Superdrug on Princes Street.

He used make-up to cover scratch marks on his hands.

He adjusted his diary to give him a reason to go to Argyll the following day.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-17358340



In my opinion anyone promoting that the case brought against Gilroy rested on "dog evidence" is entirely wrong and shows a clear misunderstanding of what constitutes evidence.

The dog alerts suggested that she entered the building and died there. That's why it was one of the important components of the circumstantial evidence collected. All the components combined suggested what had happened.

It seems there are contradictory reports concerning Gilroy's colleagues.

The defence case began on the morning of 12 March 2012 and lasted half a day. The court heard from a number of witnesses who worked in the offices of Infrastructure Managers Ltd, who spoke to the fact that they did not see anything out of the ordinary at the premises in Thistle Street on 4 May 2012.
http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g/gilroy-david.htm
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #867 on: March 18, 2018, 10:30:32 AM »
I would have thought that by July 2013, the Met had had time to review the potential significance of the alerts.

"Over the last two years what the review has told me is that there is no clear, definitive proof that Madeleine McCann is dead," Det Ch Insp Redwood said.

"So on that basis, I still genuinely believe that there is a possibility that she is alive."

He added: "It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation."

4 July 2013
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23179230

By March 2014 the view that she might still be alive appears to have been tempered by the focus on smellyman. Who, AFAIK, still hasn't been identified.

I don't see a huge amount of importance attached to the dog alerts.

UK police in Madeleine McCann case probe new intruder link
Sarah Young
March 19, 2014


LONDON (Reuters) - British detectives investigating the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine McCann said they were looking for a man suspected of carrying out a series of sexual assaults on young girls staying in Portuguese holiday villas between 2004 and 2010.
Kate and Gerry McCann pose with a computer generated image of how their missing daughter Madeleine might look now, during a news conference in London May 2, 2012. REUTERS/Andrew Winning

McCann, then aged three, went missing from her bedroom at the Praia da Luz holiday resort in the Algarve region while her parents were dining with friends at a nearby restaurant, leading to a global search that gripped the world’s media.

London police, who started a review of the case in 2011 and began their own investigation last year, said on Wednesday they were looking for more information about 12 crimes committed in Portuguese holiday resorts.

In four cases between 2004 and 2006 a man sexually assaulted five white girls, aged between 7 and 10 years, in their beds, in three different Algarve resorts, police said. Two of the 12 offences were committed in Praia da Luz.

“We need to eliminate this man from our enquiries and ascertain whether these offences are linked to Madeleine’s disappearance,” Andy Redwood, senior investigating officer at London’s Metropolitan Police Service, told a news briefing.

The man, described as being tanned with short, dark, unkempt hair, spoke English with a foreign accent and would appear early in the morning. In some incidents, he was disturbed and left.

“This an offender who has got a very, very unhealthy interest in young, white female children who he’s attacking while they’re on holiday in their beds,” Redwood said.

“ALL OPTIONS” OPEN

Redwood said the new appeal for information on the man who carried out the attacks was just one of the “priority lines” of inquiry currently being pursued. British police are also in contact with their counterparts in Spain, Belgium, Jersey, Switzerland, Netherlands and Germany over the case.

British Prime Minister David Cameron ordered a new investigation by London police after the McCanns wrote to him three years ago saying neither British nor Portuguese authorities had done enough to try to find their daughter.

Redwood said McCann might have long been dead.

“There is always the potential that she didn’t leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options,” he said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-mccann/uk-police-in-madeleine-mccann-case-probe-new-intruder-link-idUSBREA2I1D220140319



'The man, described as being tanned with short, dark, unkempt hair, spoke English with a foreign accent and would appear early in the morning. In some incidents, he was disturbed and left.'

12 offences in total, in various resorts, & not a mention of how he was gaining access to these children's bedrooms, other than just 'appearing'.  Now that's magic.


I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #868 on: March 18, 2018, 10:33:21 AM »
The dog alerts suggested that she entered the building and died there. That's why it was one of the important components of the circumstantial evidence collected. All the components combined suggested what had happened.

It seems there are contradictory reports concerning Gilroy's colleagues.

The defence case began on the morning of 12 March 2012 and lasted half a day. The court heard from a number of witnesses who worked in the offices of Infrastructure Managers Ltd, who spoke to the fact that they did not see anything out of the ordinary at the premises in Thistle Street on 4 May 2012.
http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g/gilroy-david.htm

You and others, are trying desperately to show the dogs as important in this, case and have failed imo
There was not even an alert in the car
There is real evidence that resulted in his conviction

Offline barrier

Re: Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence
« Reply #869 on: March 18, 2018, 10:41:21 AM »
I would have thought that by July 2013, the Met had had time to review the potential significance of the alerts.

"Over the last two years what the review has told me is that there is no clear, definitive proof that Madeleine McCann is dead," Det Ch Insp Redwood said.

"So on that basis, I still genuinely believe that there is a possibility that she is alive."

He added: "It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation."

4 July 2013
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23179230

By March 2014 the view that she might still be alive appears to have been tempered by the focus on smellyman. Who, AFAIK, still hasn't been identified.

I don't see a huge amount of importance attached to the dog alerts.

UK police in Madeleine McCann case probe new intruder link
Sarah Young
March 19, 2014


LONDON (Reuters) - British detectives investigating the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine McCann said they were looking for a man suspected of carrying out a series of sexual assaults on young girls staying in Portuguese holiday villas between 2004 and 2010.
Kate and Gerry McCann pose with a computer generated image of how their missing daughter Madeleine might look now, during a news conference in London May 2, 2012. REUTERS/Andrew Winning

McCann, then aged three, went missing from her bedroom at the Praia da Luz holiday resort in the Algarve region while her parents were dining with friends at a nearby restaurant, leading to a global search that gripped the world’s media.

London police, who started a review of the case in 2011 and began their own investigation last year, said on Wednesday they were looking for more information about 12 crimes committed in Portuguese holiday resorts.

In four cases between 2004 and 2006 a man sexually assaulted five white girls, aged between 7 and 10 years, in their beds, in three different Algarve resorts, police said. Two of the 12 offences were committed in Praia da Luz.

“We need to eliminate this man from our enquiries and ascertain whether these offences are linked to Madeleine’s disappearance,” Andy Redwood, senior investigating officer at London’s Metropolitan Police Service, told a news briefing.

The man, described as being tanned with short, dark, unkempt hair, spoke English with a foreign accent and would appear early in the morning. In some incidents, he was disturbed and left.

“This an offender who has got a very, very unhealthy interest in young, white female children who he’s attacking while they’re on holiday in their beds,” Redwood said.

“ALL OPTIONS” OPEN

Redwood said the new appeal for information on the man who carried out the attacks was just one of the “priority lines” of inquiry currently being pursued. British police are also in contact with their counterparts in Spain, Belgium, Jersey, Switzerland, Netherlands and Germany over the case.

British Prime Minister David Cameron ordered a new investigation by London police after the McCanns wrote to him three years ago saying neither British nor Portuguese authorities had done enough to try to find their daughter.

Redwood said McCann might have long been dead.

“There is always the potential that she didn’t leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options,” he said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-mccann/uk-police-in-madeleine-mccann-case-probe-new-intruder-link-idUSBREA2I1D220140319

'The man, described as being tanned with short, dark, unkempt hair, spoke English with a foreign accent and would appear early in the morning. In some incidents, he was disturbed and left.'

12 offences in total, in various resorts, & not a mention of how he was gaining access to these children's bedrooms, other than just 'appearing'.  Now that's magic.




If we're taking unsubstantiated reports as the true story then is this  true?

Quote
Early ideas about sex predators, child traffickers and "a burglary gone wrong" were largely dismissed before both detective teams joined forces to focus on the latest theory.


https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-set-to-be-extended-as-police-ask-for-more-funds-11024595
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 10:46:21 AM by barrier »
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.