Do The McCanns Trust Operation Grange to Do the Job ?

[sadie]

Faithlilly, its a FACT the PP put doubt n thr Mccans version of ecents, anythng else is nonsense....funny how people cherry pick lol

And that is your problem. I agree that the AG doubted the McCann's version of events, the original does not say that they lied!

Care to provide the translation you claim verifies that because that they lied is exactly what the quote already posted says ?

The quote is an inaccurate translation. Check the original in the files.

I have, with several Portuguese friends, and the translation is perfectly accurate. Can you point out specifically what you feel has been translated incorrectly ?

Please find the word 'lied' in the Portuguese. The statement is far more tempered than the translation offered. I do not speak Portuguese but do have Spanish. In my translation and that of Bing translator it shows up as quite a different assertion than lying!

You really are the limit debunker ! You don't speak Portuguese but your smattering of Spanish and an internet translator qualifies you to obtain a more accurate translation than at least three Portuguese translators, is that what you are trying to tell us ?

If nothing else, for entertainment value you are absolutely priceless.   

Look at the original and find the word 'lie' in Portuguese. It is well known that all the rtanlators were allied with the [ censored word ]s. They likely put a spin on any tranlstion that needs to be looked at skeptically.

Angelo is hilarious too.  Talk about devils advocate

He is enjoying being a stirrer



I'm right, am I not Angelo?

[faithlilly]

Challenge for you Debunker...you claim the AG didn't infer they lied...please prove it...CITE  ??   

No. The original asserter needs to prove it. They need to bring the original statement in Portuguese to the site rather than an inadequate translation by an amateur. The Portuguese word for lying does not appear in the original.

And no one claimed the word 'lied' was used. The meaning of the words that were used by the AG mean exactly that however.

Your post above:

"The AG also said the McCanns had lied about how often they checked on their children and that, by not taking part in he reconstruction, they had also failed to prove their innocence. Do you also agree with him on these points ?"

So have I claimed the word 'lied' was used in the dispatch ? The AG's words, however, carry the same meaning.

[Mrs. B]

No, the AG said the checks weren't as regular as stated, that does not mean that he says they "lied". Nobody is accusing Mrs. Fenn of "lying" for example, but most people know it's impossible to determine exactly where a sound originates from in apartment blocks like those the McCann stayed in while in PDL.

[faithlilly]

Faithlilly, its a FACT the PP put doubt n thr Mccans version of ecents, anythng else is nonsense....funny how people cherry pick lol

And that is your problem. I agree that the AG doubted the McCann's version of events, the original does not say that they lied!

Care to provide the translation you claim verifies that because that they lied is exactly what the quote already posted says ?

The quote is an inaccurate translation. Check the original in the files.

I have, with several Portuguese friends, and the translation is perfectly accurate. Can you point out specifically what you feel has been translated incorrectly ?

Please find the word 'lied' in the Portuguese. The statement is far more tempered than the translation offered. I do not speak Portuguese but do have Spanish. In my translation and that of Bing translator it shows up as quite a different assertion than lying!

You really are the limit debunker ! You don't speak Portuguese but your smattering of Spanish and an internet translator qualifies you to obtain a more accurate translation than at least three Portuguese translators, is that what you are trying to tell us ?

If nothing else, for entertainment value you are absolutely priceless.   

Look at the original and find the word 'lie' in Portuguese. It is well known that all the rtanlators were allied with the [ censored word ]s. They likely put a spin on any tranlstion that needs to be looked at skeptically.

If you dispute the accuracy of the translations carried out by both the forum translators and my friends, you must have an alternative, accurate translation which you are comparing the disputed translations against. Do you have that ?

[faithlilly]

No, the AG said the checks weren't as regular as stated, that does not mean that he says they "lied". Nobody is accusing Mrs. Fenn of "lying" for example, but most people know it's impossible to determine exactly where a sound originates from in apartment blocks like those the McCann stayed in while in PDL.

This is what the AG says about Mrs Fenn :

'Pamela Fenn, who resides on the residential block's first floor, above the apartment that was occupied by the McCann family, clarified that on the 1st of May 2007, two days before her disappearance, at around 10.30 p.m., she heard a child crying, which from the sound would be MADELEINE and that she cried for an hour and fifteen minutes, until her parents arrived, at around 11.57 p.m.
 
This shows that the parents were not persistently worried about their children [and] that they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did'

So it is Mrs Fenn's evidence that lead the AG to believe that the McCanns were being less than truthful about the regularity of their checks. They say they checked every half an hour, Mrs Fenn, who the AG seems to find a very credible witness, suggests on the night of the 1st of May the children were not checked for over an hour. So for those who suggest that the AG did not imply that the McCanns lied are simply wrong. He most certainly did and the weight he bestows on Mrs Fenn's evidence clearly shows this.

[ferryman]

No, the AG said the checks weren't as regular as stated, that does not mean that he says they "lied". Nobody is accusing Mrs. Fenn of "lying" for example, but most people know it's impossible to determine exactly where a sound originates from in apartment blocks like those the McCann stayed in while in PDL.

This is what the AG says about Mrs Fenn :

'Pamela Fenn, who resides on the residential block's first floor, above the apartment that was occupied by the McCann family, clarified that on the 1st of May 2007, two days before her disappearance, at around 10.30 p.m., she heard a child crying, which from the sound would be MADELEINE and that she cried for an hour and fifteen minutes, until her parents arrived, at around 11.57 p.m.
 
This shows that the parents were not persistently worried about their children [and] that they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did'

So it is Mrs Fenn's evidence that lead the AG to believe that the McCanns were being less than truthful about the regularity of their checks. They say they checked every half an hour, Mrs Fenn, who the AG seems to find a very credible witness, suggests on the night of the 1st of May the children were not checked for over an hour. So for those who suggest that the AG did not imply that the McCanns lied are simply wrong. He most certainly did and the weight he bestows on Mrs Fenn's evidence clearly shows this.

While the prosecutors were fundamentally sound, they are not beyond criticism.

I would say the most serious criticism that could made of them is the (undue) importance they attached to the, apparent, statement of Mrs Fenn ...

[Mrs. B]

More assumptions & speculation. The Truth is that the AG did not SAY the McCann or anyone in their group lied, not in the original Portuguese version & not in any of the translation. Nobody knows what he MEANT, but we do know what he SAID.

[Mrs. B]

No, the AG said the checks weren't as regular as stated, that does not mean that he says they "lied". Nobody is accusing Mrs. Fenn of "lying" for example, but most people know it's impossible to determine exactly where a sound originates from in apartment blocks like those the McCann stayed in while in PDL.

This is what the AG says about Mrs Fenn :

'Pamela Fenn, who resides on the residential block's first floor, above the apartment that was occupied by the McCann family, clarified that on the 1st of May 2007, two days before her disappearance, at around 10.30 p.m., she heard a child crying, which from the sound would be MADELEINE and that she cried for an hour and fifteen minutes, until her parents arrived, at around 11.57 p.m.
 
This shows that the parents were not persistently worried about their children [and] that they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did'

So it is Mrs Fenn's evidence that lead the AG to believe that the McCanns were being less than truthful about the regularity of their checks. They say they checked every half an hour, Mrs Fenn, who the AG seems to find a very credible witness, suggests on the night of the 1st of May the children were not checked for over an hour. So for those who suggest that the AG did not imply that the McCanns lied are simply wrong. He most certainly did and the weight he bestows on Mrs Fenn's evidence clearly shows this.

While the prosecutors were fundamentally sound, they are not beyond criticism.

I would say the most serious criticism that could made of them is the (undue) importance they attached to the, apparent, statement of Mrs Fenn ...

Yes, and without making any checks whatsoever to establish whether it was even possible for her to pinpoint exact locations where sounds were coming from.

[debunker]

Challenge for you Debunker...you claim the AG didn't infer they lied...please prove it...CITE  ??   

No. The original asserter needs to prove it. They need to bring the original statement in Portuguese to the site rather than an inadequate translation by an amateur. The Portuguese word for lying does not appear in the original.

And no one claimed the word 'lied' was used. The meaning of the words that were used by the AG mean exactly that however.

Your post above:

"The AG also said the McCanns had lied about how often they checked on their children and that, by not taking part in he reconstruction, they had also failed to prove their innocence. Do you also agree with him on these points ?"

So have I claimed the word 'lied' was used in the dispatch ? The AG's words, however, carry the same meaning.

CIte for an accurate translation. If he did not use the word 'lie', what word did he use. The truth of the matter is that you do not know, so assume the worst for the McCanns as is your bias and the bias of the translators- this comes up time and again!.

If you want to insist that the AG said the McCanns lied (or anything close to it), please produce the original document.

[debunker]

Faithlilly, its a FACT the PP put doubt n thr Mccans version of ecents, anythng else is nonsense....funny how people cherry pick lol

And that is your problem. I agree that the AG doubted the McCann's version of events, the original does not say that they lied!

Care to provide the translation you claim verifies that because that they lied is exactly what the quote already posted says ?

The quote is an inaccurate translation. Check the original in the files.

I have, with several Portuguese friends, and the translation is perfectly accurate. Can you point out specifically what you feel has been translated incorrectly ?

Please find the word 'lied' in the Portuguese. The statement is far more tempered than the translation offered. I do not speak Portuguese but do have Spanish. In my translation and that of Bing translator it shows up as quite a different assertion than lying!

You really are the limit debunker ! You don't speak Portuguese but your smattering of Spanish and an internet translator qualifies you to obtain a more accurate translation than at least three Portuguese translators, is that what you are trying to tell us ?

If nothing else, for entertainment value you are absolutely priceless.   

Look at the original and find the word 'lie' in Portuguese. It is well known that all the rtanlators were allied with the [ censored word ]s. They likely put a spin on any tranlstion that needs to be looked at skeptically.

If you dispute the accuracy of the translations carried out by both the forum translators and my friends, you must have an alternative, accurate translation which you are comparing the disputed translations against. Do you have that ?

That does not follow logically.

Please produce the original Portuguese.

[debunker]

No, the AG said the checks weren't as regular as stated, that does not mean that he says they "lied". Nobody is accusing Mrs. Fenn of "lying" for example, but most people know it's impossible to determine exactly where a sound originates from in apartment blocks like those the McCann stayed in while in PDL.

This is what the AG says about Mrs Fenn :

'Pamela Fenn, who resides on the residential block's first floor, above the apartment that was occupied by the McCann family, clarified that on the 1st of May 2007, two days before her disappearance, at around 10.30 p.m., she heard a child crying, which from the sound would be MADELEINE and that she cried for an hour and fifteen minutes, until her parents arrived, at around 11.57 p.m.
 
This shows that the parents were not persistently worried about their children [and] that they didn't check on them like they afterwards declared they did'

So it is Mrs Fenn's evidence that lead the AG to believe that the McCanns were being less than truthful about the regularity of their checks. They say they checked every half an hour, Mrs Fenn, who the AG seems to find a very credible witness, suggests on the night of the 1st of May the children were not checked for over an hour. So for those who suggest that the AG did not imply that the McCanns lied are simply wrong. He most certainly did and the weight he bestows on Mrs Fenn's evidence clearly shows this.

That is a poor and biased translation. Please produce the original.

[faithlilly]

Faithlilly, how do you know the AG meant "they lied" and not "they were mistaken"?  Do you know the difference between lying and giving wrong information based on inaccurate recall?

Are you really suggesting the McCanns were 'mistaken in their recall' when declaring they had left the children for only 30 minutes when they had actually left them for over an hour ?

[sadie]

Faith, give or take 5 minutes:

8.30  K&G went to the tapas restaurant

9.00  Matt did a listening check
9.05  Gerry not content with a listening check, did his own personal check

9.30  Matt did a visual check, but only saw the twins, assumed Madeleine was there.

10.00  Kate went to check.  Madeleine gone!

Better than thousands of people who rely on Hotel staff to do a listening check every half hour.  Far better

[Angelo222]

Challenge for you Debunker...you claim the AG didn't infer they lied...please prove it...CITE  ??   

No. The original asserter needs to prove it. They need to bring the original statement in Portuguese to the site rather than an inadequate translation by an amateur. The Portuguese word for lying does not appear in the original.

And no one claimed the word 'lied' was used. The meaning of the words that were used by the AG mean exactly that however.

The whole reason the McCanns were accused and made arguidos was because they weren't believed.  It doesn't take much wit to work out therefore that as far as the PJ was concerned they lied.

[sadie]

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