Author Topic: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?  (Read 240036 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #135 on: February 22, 2016, 11:00:20 PM »
It's like trying to reason with mud.  I give up.

I like a man who knows when he's beaten !  8(0(*
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #136 on: February 22, 2016, 11:02:01 PM »
I like a man who knows when he's beaten !  8(0(*
unreasonable people always win in an online argument.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #137 on: February 22, 2016, 11:08:17 PM »
unreasonable people always win in an online argument.

People who have been defeated during an online debate always say their opponent was unreasonable.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline mercury

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #138 on: February 22, 2016, 11:10:39 PM »
Not to worry Mercury I'm sure ferryman will prove us all wrong in a moment by furnishing us with that direct quote from Martin Smith.

I hope so as its been trumpeted over two threads..I have pmd John to reproduce it and settle this ....after all this is a fact based forum admin tells us all the time, we want facts not utterances to be taken in faith as facts!!

Offline faithlilly

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #139 on: February 22, 2016, 11:13:25 PM »
I hope so as its been trumpeted over two threads..I have pmd John to reproduce it and settle this ....after all this is a fact based forum admin tells us all the time, we want facts not utterances to be taken in faith as facts!!

Indeed Mercury. I'm sure ferryman will produce the quote rather than face the igmony of being thought a fool.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #140 on: February 22, 2016, 11:21:00 PM »
LOL, so he really wasn't certain about it right from the get-go, is that what you're saying?  That coupled with the fact that he never saw the guy's face anyway and that none of the rest of his family thought it was Gerry, and yet people like you consider his claim of utmost importance and have built your wobbly theories around it - bonkers mate!

Of course he saw his face but it was dark.

"He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good." MS
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline mercury

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #141 on: February 22, 2016, 11:23:09 PM »
Indeed Mercury. I'm sure ferryman will produce the quote rather than face the igmony of being thought a fool.

Ferryman believes what he does, like many others, which is fine, where it goes wrong is when it's twisted and not substantiated and worse, so that others can say, ok, you're right, simple as.....no need for pages and pages of threads talking about the same bleeding issues 24/7.....


Offline Carana

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #142 on: February 23, 2016, 09:31:04 AM »
I haven't found a direct quote from Martin Smith.

ST:

Smith has since stressed that he does not believe the man he saw was Gerry, and Scotland Yard do not consider this a possibility. Last week the McCanns were told officially by the Portuguese authorities that they are not suspects.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2794.0

However, there is this from Mary Smith (MoS):
This weekend, Mr Smith's wife Mary told the Mail on Sunday her husband had no regrets about coming forward.

He [Martin] doesn't want to talk, said Mrs Smith. He said what he had to say. I was with him [that night]. We saw a man carrying a child and that's all we know. We told them all that and that's it.

''The man he saw had the same stature as Gerry McCann. We felt we had to help. We're happy we did. We reported exactly what we saw.

"We only did what we thought was right for a missing girl and our hearts are breaking for her parents, as it would be if it were one of ours.

''I feel very much for them [the McCanns]. I have six grandchildren of my own and six children of my own.

"The poor McCann family must be heartbroken.''

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html


There is also a tweet exchange between Xklamation and Jason Farrell from Sky:

Joana Morais
‏@JoanaAMorais
@JasonFarrellSky «I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerald McCann that I met that night carrying a child» Mr.Smith http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

Jason Farrell ‏@JasonFarrellSky 14 Oct 2013
@xklamation it was Peter Smith who I spoke to, who was in the group. That wasn't his take on it.
0 retweets 0 likes


Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #143 on: February 23, 2016, 09:33:50 AM »
Of course he saw his face but it was dark.

"He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good." MS
No recall of any relevant facial details apart from the lack of glasses and facial hair.  Well that certainly narrows it down then.

Offline Benice

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #144 on: February 23, 2016, 09:50:21 AM »
I haven't found a direct quote from Martin Smith.

ST:

Smith has since stressed that he does not believe the man he saw was Gerry, and Scotland Yard do not consider this a possibility. Last week the McCanns were told officially by the Portuguese authorities that they are not suspects.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2794.0

However, there is this from Mary Smith (MoS):
This weekend, Mr Smith's wife Mary told the Mail on Sunday her husband had no regrets about coming forward.

He [Martin] doesn't want to talk, said Mrs Smith. He said what he had to say. I was with him [that night]. We saw a man carrying a child and that's all we know. We told them all that and that's it.

''The man he saw had the same stature as Gerry McCann. We felt we had to help. We're happy we did. We reported exactly what we saw.

"We only did what we thought was right for a missing girl and our hearts are breaking for her parents, as it would be if it were one of ours.

''I feel very much for them [the McCanns]. I have six grandchildren of my own and six children of my own.

"The poor McCann family must be heartbroken.''

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html


There is also a tweet exchange between Xklamation and Jason Farrell from Sky:

Joana Morais
‏@JoanaAMorais
@JasonFarrellSky «I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerald McCann that I met that night carrying a child» Mr.Smith http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

Jason Farrell ‏@JasonFarrellSky 14 Oct 2013
@xklamation it was Peter Smith who I spoke to, who was in the group. That wasn't his take on it.
0 retweets 0 likes

If those comments (in bold) don't make it crystal clear that the Smiths don't think it was Gerry they saw - then I don't know what will.   Anyone who thinks Mrs Smith meant something different is deluding themselves that black is white IMO.



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #145 on: February 23, 2016, 09:52:41 AM »
If those comments (in bold) don't make it crystal clear that the Smiths don't think it was Gerry they saw - then I don't know what will.   Anyone who thinks Mrs Smith meant something different is deluding themselves that black is white IMO.
The "Sceptic" defensive position will be - it's in the Mail on Sunday so they must've made it up.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #146 on: February 23, 2016, 10:03:43 AM »
The "Sceptic" defensive position will be - it's in the Mail on Sunday so they must've made it up.

The actual position is, wanting a signed and witnessed statement from Mr. Smith himself.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #147 on: February 23, 2016, 10:07:14 AM »
I haven't found a direct quote from Martin Smith.

ST:

Smith has since stressed that he does not believe the man he saw was Gerry, and Scotland Yard do not consider this a possibility. Last week the McCanns were told officially by the Portuguese authorities that they are not suspects.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2794.0

However, there is this from Mary Smith (MoS):
This weekend, Mr Smith's wife Mary told the Mail on Sunday her husband had no regrets about coming forward.

He [Martin] doesn't want to talk, said Mrs Smith. He said what he had to say. I was with him [that night]. We saw a man carrying a child and that's all we know. We told them all that and that's it.

''The man he saw had the same stature as Gerry McCann. We felt we had to help. We're happy we did. We reported exactly what we saw.

"We only did what we thought was right for a missing girl and our hearts are breaking for her parents, as it would be if it were one of ours.

''I feel very much for them [the McCanns]. I have six grandchildren of my own and six children of my own.

"The poor McCann family must be heartbroken.''

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html


There is also a tweet exchange between Xklamation and Jason Farrell from Sky:

Joana Morais
‏@JoanaAMorais
@JasonFarrellSky «I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerald McCann that I met that night carrying a child» Mr.Smith http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

Jason Farrell ‏@JasonFarrellSky 14 Oct 2013
@xklamation it was Peter Smith who I spoke to, who was in the group. That wasn't his take on it.
0 retweets 0 likes

This is the whole article the quotes were taken from :

Drogheda businessman told police he saw Gerry McCann carrying a child towards the beach the day Maddie disappeared The Irish Mail on Sunday (no online link, appears in paper edition)
 
10 August 2008
 
Father-of-six gave garda a signed statement saying he and his wife were ''60 to 80% sure'' that the man they saw holding the child was Maddie's father.

The claim, which was taken seriously by the Portuguese police, was made almost four months after Maddie disappeared on May 3rd this year.

Since then the McCanns have been totally exonerated of any involvement.

Mr. Smith had initally told police he had seen a man carrying a child that night, but that he couldn't identify him because he had not been wearing his glasses. The following September, however, the businessman saw clips of the McCanns returning from their holidays and said the footage of Mr McCann carrying his younger child had instantly reminded him of the mystery man.

''I would be 60 to 80% sure that it was Gerry McCann that I met that night carrying a child," Mr Smith said in his statement. ''It was the way Mr. McCann turned his head down that was similar... It may have been the way he was carrying his child.

''I am basing this on his mannerism, in the way he carried the child off the plane.''

Mr Smith's claim was passed to the Portuguese police who took it as more evidence in support of their mistaken belief that the McCanns had something to do with their daughter's disappearence.

Friends of the McCann family said last night that the decision of the Portuguese police to pursue Mr Smith's claims prove that they were determined to pin the blame on Maddie's parents come what may.

One said ''Look at the facts. This man sees an individual carrying a child on the night Madeleine vanished. He waits 13 days to report this to the police, going back to Ireland.

"The McCanns returning to England - It was this image that alerted Mr Smith in the meantime. At this stage he admits he has no idea who the man is, other than a basic description. A further three, almost four months go by before, after seeing him on television, he feels it could be Gerry.

''By now the police have dozens of statements putting Gerry back at the apartment complex at that time. Yet the Portuguese ask a combination of the Leicestershire police and the Garda to re-interview this witness. About what??

''And why? The truth is that this is part of the victimisation of Gerry and Kate which has gone on from the very beginning by the Portuguese,who were clearly desperate to get something against them."

The extraordinary saga began on the night of May 3rd 2007, as Martin and his wife, Mary, walked back from a local pub in Praia da Luz to their apartment with members of his family. They had decided to return to their apartment within an hour of dining out becasue their son, Peter, was catching an early morning flight the next day.

As they made their way back, they crossed paths with a slim man with a full head of chestnut coloured hair and dressed in beige trousers coming in the opposite direction.

It was 9.55 pm and the man was carrying a sleeping little blonde girl of about 4-years of age. The child's head was was resting on the man's left shoulder.

At this stage Maddie had already disappeared but the Smiths were unaware that a child had gone missing from PDL.

It was not until the following morning that a family member living in Ireland told them of Madeleine's disappearence. Mr Smith returned to Ireland six days after the litle girl went missing and it was another 2 weeks before he travelled back to Portugal to make a statement about what he saw that night.

In the statement to Portuguese police on May 26th, the grandfather -who wears glasses but was not wearing them at the night in question - said he would not be able to identify the man he saw.

Significantly though he was able to tell Police that the man was not Robert Murat, as he had met him on a number of previous occasions.

After making his statement, Mr Smtih returned to Drogheda and it was not until four months later that that he made contact with the police again.

This weekend, Mr Smith's wife Mary told the Mail on Sunday her husband had no regrets about coming forward.

He [Martin] doesn't want to talk, said Mrs Smith. He said what he had to say. I was with him [that night]. We saw a man carrying a child and that's all we know. We told them all that and that's it.

''The man he saw had the same stature as Gerry McCann. We felt we had to help. We're happy we did. We reported exactly what we saw.

"We only did what we thought was right for a missing girl and our hearts are breaking for her parents, as it would be if it were one of ours.

''I feel very much for them [the McCanns]. I have six grandchildren of my own and six children of my own.

"The poor McCann family must be heartbroken.''


No word of either Martin Smith or his wife changing their minds. In fact it could be argued that if Mary or her husband felt that they had made a mistake identifying Gerry then she had the perfect platform to tell the world about it. She was not hog tied by judicial secrecy any more so what was stopping her ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #148 on: February 23, 2016, 10:11:39 AM »
"Our hearts are breaking for her parents (despite the fact that we're quite convinced they've engaged in a massive cover-up and fraud involving the death of their little girl)" - yeah right.

Offline Benice

Re: Has Martin Smith Changed his Opinion ?
« Reply #149 on: February 23, 2016, 10:13:25 AM »
This is the whole article the quotes were taken from :

Drogheda businessman told police he saw Gerry McCann carrying a child towards the beach the day Maddie disappeared The Irish Mail on Sunday (no online link, appears in paper edition)
 
10 August 2008
 
Father-of-six gave garda a signed statement saying he and his wife were ''60 to 80% sure'' that the man they saw holding the child was Maddie's father.

The claim, which was taken seriously by the Portuguese police, was made almost four months after Maddie disappeared on May 3rd this year.

Since then the McCanns have been totally exonerated of any involvement.

Mr. Smith had initally told police he had seen a man carrying a child that night, but that he couldn't identify him because he had not been wearing his glasses. The following September, however, the businessman saw clips of the McCanns returning from their holidays and said the footage of Mr McCann carrying his younger child had instantly reminded him of the mystery man.

''I would be 60 to 80% sure that it was Gerry McCann that I met that night carrying a child," Mr Smith said in his statement. ''It was the way Mr. McCann turned his head down that was similar... It may have been the way he was carrying his child.

''I am basing this on his mannerism, in the way he carried the child off the plane.''

Mr Smith's claim was passed to the Portuguese police who took it as more evidence in support of their mistaken belief that the McCanns had something to do with their daughter's disappearence.

Friends of the McCann family said last night that the decision of the Portuguese police to pursue Mr Smith's claims prove that they were determined to pin the blame on Maddie's parents come what may.

One said ''Look at the facts. This man sees an individual carrying a child on the night Madeleine vanished. He waits 13 days to report this to the police, going back to Ireland.

"The McCanns returning to England - It was this image that alerted Mr Smith in the meantime. At this stage he admits he has no idea who the man is, other than a basic description. A further three, almost four months go by before, after seeing him on television, he feels it could be Gerry.

''By now the police have dozens of statements putting Gerry back at the apartment complex at that time. Yet the Portuguese ask a combination of the Leicestershire police and the Garda to re-interview this witness. About what??

''And why? The truth is that this is part of the victimisation of Gerry and Kate which has gone on from the very beginning by the Portuguese,who were clearly desperate to get something against them."

The extraordinary saga began on the night of May 3rd 2007, as Martin and his wife, Mary, walked back from a local pub in Praia da Luz to their apartment with members of his family. They had decided to return to their apartment within an hour of dining out becasue their son, Peter, was catching an early morning flight the next day.

As they made their way back, they crossed paths with a slim man with a full head of chestnut coloured hair and dressed in beige trousers coming in the opposite direction.

It was 9.55 pm and the man was carrying a sleeping little blonde girl of about 4-years of age. The child's head was was resting on the man's left shoulder.

At this stage Maddie had already disappeared but the Smiths were unaware that a child had gone missing from PDL.

It was not until the following morning that a family member living in Ireland told them of Madeleine's disappearence. Mr Smith returned to Ireland six days after the litle girl went missing and it was another 2 weeks before he travelled back to Portugal to make a statement about what he saw that night.

In the statement to Portuguese police on May 26th, the grandfather -who wears glasses but was not wearing them at the night in question - said he would not be able to identify the man he saw.

Significantly though he was able to tell Police that the man was not Robert Murat, as he had met him on a number of previous occasions.

After making his statement, Mr Smtih returned to Drogheda and it was not until four months later that that he made contact with the police again.

This weekend, Mr Smith's wife Mary told the Mail on Sunday her husband had no regrets about coming forward.

He [Martin] doesn't want to talk, said Mrs Smith. He said what he had to say. I was with him [that night]. We saw a man carrying a child and that's all we know. We told them all that and that's it.

''The man he saw had the same stature as Gerry McCann. We felt we had to help. We're happy we did. We reported exactly what we saw.

"We only did what we thought was right for a missing girl and our hearts are breaking for her parents, as it would be if it were one of ours.

''I feel very much for them [the McCanns]. I have six grandchildren of my own and six children of my own.

"The poor McCann family must be heartbroken.''


No word of either Martin Smith or his wife changing their minds. In fact it could be argued that if Mary or her husband felt that they had made a mistake identifying Gerry then she had the perfect platform to tell the world about it. She was not hog tied by judicial secrecy any more so what was stopping her ?

Like I said - anyone who thinks Mrs Smith didn't make it crystal clear from those comments that they don't think it was Gerry they saw - is deluding themselves.

The ability of some sceptics to convince themselves that black is white never ceases to amaze me.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal