Author Topic: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes  (Read 84594 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #855 on: January 25, 2023, 10:00:19 PM »
I'd written a reply to this thread a few days ago, but, to my frustration, it never made it on to the boards (the joys of using a mobile phone). Anyway, just briefly: I believe that SM's continual reticence post-trial can be apportioned to him knowing his brother did it and that he was involved in the disposal of incriminating evidence on the night of June 30th, 2003 (why was he in Oxgangs, a suburb that was 7 miles away from his then home in Newbattle, that night getting petrol? And why was Corinne's maroon Vauxhall Frontera car at the Newbattle entrance to RDP on the night of June 30th, 2003? Was Shane driving it as CM was drinking alcohol that night ?). Then there is the farcical attempt of trying to concoct an alibi which CM dragged Shane into; SM literally changed his story regarding his brother's whereabouts on 30.06.03 3 three times in the space of a couple of days -- one of his accounts in July '03 was a direct result of being coached by CM as to what to say to police -- and then reverted back to his safe default "I don't know" stance when the going got tough on 14.04.04 under police questioning. But, for me, SM's testimony in court tells you all you need to know regarding his brother's guilt. When asked by AD Turnbull, after being shown the horrific pictures of that murdered girl at the locus, if he'd masturbated whilst viewing online pornography between 1653-1716 and if he'd seen his brother in the house when he went downstairs after the internet session, SM admitted he had masturbated and replied verbatim: "I genuinely don't remember seeing my brother." Even before this, when the AD asked him who he thought was in the house when he went on the internet, SM replied verbatim: "No one at the time." And there are other bits of his testimony in the public domain --  for example him admitting that his mother was the reason that he changed his statement on the 07.07.03 to say he saw LM in the kitchen "mashing tatties", and SM also said he could not hear any music being played by LM like he normally would at dinner time in the house (between 1600-1800). So, there it is, unequivocally, an admission from SM that his wee brother was not in the house between 1650 - 1716 on 30.06.03. How anyone can infer differently is baffling. To say he saw him mashing tatties in the kitchen at 1716 when he went downstairs after looking on the internet, to say, under oath, "I genuinely don't remember seeing my brother" (meaning at 1716) is very incriminating as it's completely admitting he did not see his brother in the house and that Luke was elsewhere. Combine this with the other mountain of incriminating circumstantial evidence and it's no wonder he was jailed; there was an overwhelming amount of evidence against LM, imo. Actually, I'm extremely surprised that AD Turnbull never came right out and asked SM under cross-examination if he really did see his brother mashing tatties in the kitchen, though I suspect he would have said he couldn't remember. And, btw, SM only said his brother "could have been there" so as not to fully drop his wee brother and mother in the proverbial shit.

As regards LM being terrified in court of saying the wrong thing . . . really?!!?! So, the police made him say he was masturbatng and he genuinely didn't remember seeing his brother when he went downstairs?? Do me a favour! Look, if your wee brother was in the house and you saw him, you'd simply say so. It's as simple as that. The fact that there was so much of a furore about wether or not SM saw LM in the house that afternoon is, imo, indicative of the Mitchells' lies and guilt. You either saw your wee brother or you didn't -- no in between. The fact that the Mitchells made a big deal of wether or not LM was home during the1650 - 1716 window is very telling; caught up in their own mess & lies. Quite simply, two people could not have failed to see each other in that 2-storey house that day if they were in the house at the same time. Simple as that. SM did not have a chronic memory problem, either; he was lying about his memory because his mother dragged him into a false alibi of LM being in the kitchen "mashing tatties" and he knew the police had sussed this out. The fact that some people on here think that the police intimidated Shane to the extent he would make false admissions that would help secure his brother's conviction for murder & say his own brother wasn't in the kitchen, is absolutely astounding. The police have actually to be commended for getting SM to tell the truth. They even got him to admit in court that he was masturbating -- something he really could have gotten away with not admitting; he could have just said he was looking at the images.

Shane believed in his first statement that he had arrived home from work at around 3.30 pm, his usual time and, obviously, Luke wouldn’t have been in the house as he would still have been at school. This is why, in his first statement Shane said that he hadn’t seen Luke. However he changed that time as a direct result of two witnesses, one independent, reminding him of certain events…his friend reminding him that he’d helped him with his car ( receipts provided) and his mum reminding him of the making of the dinner etc. He then changed his statement to reflect these two events. Nothing sinister there. It is strange however that if Shane had been correct about Luke not being at home that he didn’t remember having no dinner that night because there would have been no one there to make it.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #856 on: January 25, 2023, 10:02:16 PM »
That is an excellent post Mr Apples and sums up the failed alibi rather succinctly.  If Luke had been at home making dinner, Shane would definitely have known about it for sure. All he had to say was, yes sir, my brother was with me at home.

BUT HE DIDN'T SAY THAT and the rest is history!

If Luke hadn’t been at home Shane wouldn’t have had any dinner.

Did Shane claim that?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline KenMair

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #857 on: January 25, 2023, 10:10:56 PM »
If Luke hadn’t been at home Shane wouldn’t have had any dinner.

Did Shane claim that?

Didnt SM claim he had his dinner in his room, CM in the garden and LM in the lounge watching TV? And who spotted LM mashing tatties and blaring loud music.

How could all of this happened without SM seeing or hearing LM? And that SM finished his porn session with his door open just before CM arrived home at 5.15pm then left at 5.30pm? That's what I call fast food.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #858 on: January 25, 2023, 10:11:05 PM »
Just one more little thing before I hit the hay .... the till mechanism at the Gorebridge Coop being out by 13 mins is interesting. If a survey was put to the general public of what would be more reliable for timings, I'm certain that the bank statement timings would get the bulk of the votes. Therefore, AB's sighting of the couple is still 100% plausible. I'll add to this another day.

Offline John

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #859 on: January 25, 2023, 10:16:30 PM »
Without Shane’s testimony in court that he could not remember if Luke was home or not. Do you think Luke would have been found guilty on the rest of the evidence? Personally I don’t, that was what swayed some of the jury I think. If he had said Luke was not home I think the decision could have been unanimous and if he said He thinks Luke was at home then the spit might have been enough to get Luke off. Unfortunately he could not remember.

I don't think his memory had anything to do with it. The prosecutor had warned him of the consequences of committing perjury and that was enough to elicit a truthful response.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #860 on: January 25, 2023, 10:19:35 PM »
I’ve read your posts written over many years…you knew the ‘facts’ and still supported Luke. What particular facts changed your mind?

For many years I was still prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but after visiting the scene and carefully putting together the evidence I came to the reluctant conclusion that he was most probably the killer.

His mother's attitude towards anyone raising serious concerns about his defence certainly didn't do him any favours if I'm honest.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 10:22:41 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Bullseye

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #861 on: January 25, 2023, 10:22:49 PM »
I don't think his memory had anything to do with it. The prosecutor had warned him of the consequences of committing perjury and that was enough to elicit a truthful response.

His response, I believe, was he honestly could not remember if Luke was home.

Do you think he would have been convinced if not for Shane’s inability to remember if Luke was home or not? Was the case strong enough without this in your opinion?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #862 on: January 25, 2023, 10:24:47 PM »
Mr Apples - I believe there was footage of him with the parka hood up described as looking like a monk from schoolteachers. I think the concert in May 2003 was Ramage Inc, local metal type band and I'd heard PM had the same parka.

The pro LM supporters are out out in force after Det. Forbes latest revelations. "Go Scott!"

Have you seen the footage? Or was it simply a teacher claiming that Luke had a parka….of course we now know that one of his friends had a parka….who’s to say one boy was not mistaken for the other? With the hood up it’d be hard to tell.

The Ramage concert has already been debunked but keep on spreading the rumours. They were useful in 2003, not sure how successful they are now. Not more than a dozen people sharing long ago disproved ‘facts’ in their own echo chamber. Not sure why you waste your time.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #863 on: January 25, 2023, 10:28:45 PM »
Didnt SM claim he had his dinner in his room, CM in the garden and LM in the lounge watching TV? And who spotted LM mashing tatties and blaring loud music.

How could all of this happened without SM seeing or hearing LM? And that SM finished his porn session with his door open just before CM arrived home at 5.15pm then left at 5.30pm? That's what I call fast food.

Shane absolutely claimed that. So who made that dinner if not Luke? We know Corrine wasn’t home to 5.15pm.

As to fast food, have you ever seen young men eat?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Bullseye

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #864 on: January 25, 2023, 10:31:27 PM »
John, I heard recently that photographic evidence and cctv evidence of LM wearing the army parka before the murder was shown in court. The photographic evidence was of LM with Jodi and friends at a concert in May 2003 and another pic was supplied by Kimberley Thompson (LM wearing the parka in February 2003). The cctv evidence was supplied by St David's High School. Also, LM's dad Philip Mitchell allegedly gave a statement that his son owned that parka before the murder. Philip was allegedly at the concert with them in May 2003 and he was wearing the exact same jacket as his son! You heard anything about this, John?

This question has came up many times over the years, as to the evidence there was a parka. At no time has anyone ever said there was any pictures or cctv of Luke in a parka before the murder. From my understand, please someone correct me if I’m wrong, there were a number of witnesses around 8 I think and the star witness was a teacher who said he looked like a monk with the hood up in the parka. None of Luke’s close friends or family provided evidence in court on the parka.

That’s not to say there are no pictures came to light since the trial. It may be there is a picture found now that was in the back of someone’s cupboard. Now that I would love to see, actual hard evidence against Luke that would probably be enough to say case closed for a lot of folk. That picture would be worth some money to the right reporter.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #865 on: January 25, 2023, 10:41:00 PM »
I don't think his memory had anything to do with it. The prosecutor had warned him of the consequences of committing perjury and that was enough to elicit a truthful response.

Or he had just had a charge of perverting the course of justice against him dropped and knew the response the prosecution expected.

Shane’s response to a question put to him by Donald Findlay perfectly illustrates the position he found himself in.

“ He was then asked by defence QC Donald Findlay if there was any point in the evening where he could say he knew for a fact that Luke was not in the house.

Shane responded: "I can't say that."

Why didn’t Shane just say yes?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 10:47:01 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Bullseye

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #866 on: January 25, 2023, 10:41:15 PM »
Didnt SM claim he had his dinner in his room, CM in the garden and LM in the lounge watching TV? And who spotted LM mashing tatties and blaring loud music.

How could all of this happened without SM seeing or hearing LM? And that SM finished his porn session with his door open just before CM arrived home at 5.15pm then left at 5.30pm? That's what I call fast food.

Was the ‘porn session’ not found to be the pop ups you use to get back then when looking at car sites like Shane was. The timings showed the ‘porn clips’ were just a few seconds at a time, pop ups opening on a website then being closed. (Info from Sandra’s book)
Also there has been many a time when I was younger I came home went right up to my room and had no idea if anyone else was home. If you are not looking listening or taking much notice it’s very possible for someone to be home and not be noticed or remembered.

Offline Rusty

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #867 on: January 25, 2023, 11:26:03 PM »
So now Forbes has changed tact, is now blaming the brother, Moped boys, GD. Pretty much everybody.

I'm now curious to know, since he put late Mark & his Mother through hell for years, is he going to publicly apologize to Mark's mother? For the distress he has put her, and her family, through?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #868 on: January 25, 2023, 11:47:50 PM »
So now Forbes has changed tact, is now blaming the brother, Moped boys, GD. Pretty much everybody.

I'm now curious to know, since he put late Mark & his Mother through hell for years, is he going to publicly apologize to Mark's mother? For the distress he has put her, and her family, through?

Isn’t she dead?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Re: Luke Mitchell - Witness Scott Forbes
« Reply #869 on: January 26, 2023, 11:53:15 AM »
It is not about how long it takes to wolf a dinner down, it is not about what you want to apply to anything, as you keep making things up for people. It is only about what they claimed. Which was not running about at speed, was it now. It was not arriving home and dinner plated and ready to take outside, it was not about any rush at all, not a snifter of it. More so when they dragged SM into it.

It is not about DF's last gasp, it is only about lying, and it is about why those lies were in place. Nothing to do with a bad memory and everything to do with lying. Granted, It is all a bit hard to digest, helping and aiding, covering up and so forth, so here is something Jigsawman style,  a hypothetical line of reasoning.

'What if, having set off on a certain course of action they believed that by doing certain things it would all work itself out? -  A boy comes home with blood upon him, tells his mother he has just found his girlfriend dead. That he went to meet her in their usual haunt in the woods. He has been seen and knows the girls family are aware she had left to meet with him at this time. What is he going to do, he will surely be blamed. Mother is worried and decides to help dispose of the clothing, to put an alibi in place for that time. It is all they can do, he is going to be blamed anyway.

The brother arrives home and learns of what has happened, his mother is disposing of evidence, she is going to be in trouble. He however is not at all convinced of the younger brothers story. But for his mother he agrees to keep quiet, he does not want involved however in the alibi time and story.

He then tells the police something to try to avoid that time, he places himself home before his brother, the house is empty and rightly so, the brother is still in school. Has himself home a short while and leaves again. (The latter part true)

Three people within 24yrs are all implicated in a cover up. There is no going back so they continue as best they can, winging it, playing it by ear. Not master criminals and doing only that which they can. A mother helping her son and another son helping his mother?

Three days later and they are still sticking to the same tale. This time the brother is interviewed formally, the focus now around that crucial time and he is under pressure, so he says on repeat "I cannot remember" - He arrives home and relates this pressure around dinner, around the alibi time. Already implicated and exposing the other two by default, what to do now, what can they do? Still unaware of phone logs and CCTV, he is pressured into doing the only thing that seems best at this point, to tell the same tale as his mother, the same lies she had told the police -----

This in place it was time to deal with the missing clothing, believing that the strength in an alibi would surely have the police with nothing, the search had yielded nothing and they buy a new coat, foiled at the first hurdle, they were still being watched. Again, this winging it, playing it by ear, and doing the best they could to add strength to a story already in place.

There is a further warrant and again no charges made, they are under the full belief that the police have nothing. It is time to tell their version to the public, to start putting their life back together and they do an interview with the media. It backfires publicly, but they hear of a local person who is being very vocal and they ask them to help. To have something further/someone, to take their story, their version of what took place back into the community, to also have someone, their ears and eyes bring what is happening back to them. This person helps willingly.

Everything is very quiet, it really does seem that it has worked, there is not going to be any arrest, that aid, the cover up has worked, and it feels good, after all he only found the girl like that. Time for that final piece, the passage of time is surely safe now, and a replacement knife is bought.

Then that arrest comes, it had been far from over, that investigation had still being going on massively in the background. Although the Crown had made it clear in the August that they could not use the DNA, it was not going to be useful as evidence, the strengthening of that circumstantial evidence, the crossing of those T's and dotting those i's was still in place. They are all charged and the pressure upon the one with doubts, the elder brother is full on. Was he going to end up doing time for his younger sibling?

The trial, those charges dropped allowing them to testify against the son/brother. A reprieve to tell the truth, and he does. Those nagging doubts, and he is shown photographs and told, "This is what you are being asked to cover for ----" the brother then tells the court he had lied, that the reason for those lies, to fit with more lies, was by coercion of his mother, for his mother. He had neither seen nor heard his brother, no dinner, no mashing tatties, no mother and two sons together in that kitchen - The younger sibling was not home.
'