The Joana Cipriano case revisited.

[Venturi Swirl]

I think the fact that two young girls went missing without trace in a sparsely populated backwater of Portugal within a year or two of each other is more than a little noteworthy, again nothing to do with  Amaral’s involvement.

[Angelo222]

I think the fact that two young girls went missing without trace in a sparsely populated backwater of Portugal within a year or two of each other is more than a little noteworthy, again nothing to do with  Amaral’s involvement.

So do you think the Ciprianos both independently and on several occasions admitted being involved in Joana's disappearance just for the hell of it?  Or was Madeleine's disappearance 2½ years later merely an unfortunate coincidence?

[Mr Gray]

So do you think the Ciprianos both independently and on several occasions admitted being involved in Joana's disappearance just for the hell of it?  Or was Madeleine's disappearance 2½ years later merely an unfortunate coincidence?

I think they were coerced through violence  and threats of violence ...I think if they had done what they were supposed to have done thebpolice would have found some evidence..
Bit they found none

[Venturi Swirl]

So do you think the Ciprianos both independently and on several occasions admitted being involved in Joana's disappearance just for the hell of it?  Or was Madeleine's disappearance 2½ years later merely an unfortunate coincidence?

I don’t think the Cipriano have a combined iq of much more than 150 therefore I think it’s possible that in order to put the case to bed swiftly it’s possible that they were coerced or incentivised to admit to their part in her disappearance.  It wouldn’t be the first time this sort if thing has happened, people of low intelligence are particularly susceptible to miscarriages of justice.

[Angelo222]

I think they were coerced through violence  and threats of violence ...I think if they had done what they were supposed to have done thebpolice would have found some evidence..
Bit they found none

That is completely false and extremely disingenuous. There is a lot of evidence in the Joana case from the sighting of her returning home to the blood residues found on the doorframe, walls, floor, shoes etc.  Your denial is diabolical imo.

[Angelo222]

I don’t think the Cipriano have a combined iq of much more than 150 therefore I think it’s possible that in order to put the case to bed swiftly it’s possible that they were coerced or incentivised to admit to their part in her disappearance.  It wouldn’t be the first time this sort if thing has happened, people of low intelligence are particularly susceptible to miscarriages of justice.

Smart enough to concoct a story though later retracted.  Leonor's lawyer Marcos Correia believed her otherwise he wouldn't have got her to admit what she did latterly.  Could it have been a case of her initially being coerced by her more intelligent brother but once away from his control she changed her story?

[misty]

I'm not quite understanding you. The new "confession" was delivered to the Faro court during the trial of the PJ Inspectors. How could it have affected any appeal she was making?

Bumped for Angelo.

[Angelo222]

Bumped for Angelo.

Sorry Misty, I missed your post.

Leonor was convicted of murder. She wanted to appeal that conviction to something like conspiracy after the fact and assisting an offender but it never happened. It has nothing to do with Amaral and his colleagues.

[misty]

Sorry Misty, I missed your post.

Leonor was convicted of murder. She wanted to appeal that conviction to something like conspiracy after the fact and assisting an offender but it never happened. It has nothing to do with Amaral and his colleagues.

Leonor Cipriano amending testimony and says daughter was killed by uncle
January 16, 2009, 13:05


Leonor Cipriano changed her testimony concerning the disappearance of her daughter, in Portimão on the 12th of September 2004. In a witness statement that she signed at the prison of Odemira yesterday, Leonor Cipriano accuses her brother, João Manuel Domingos Cipriano, of being the author of the child’s death.

Beforehand, they intended to simulate an abduction and to send the child to Spain, in exchange for money. This process did not work according to plan and ended up being transformed into a homicide that was carried out by the child’s uncle.

The Public Ministry accuses the child’s mother and uncle of being the authors of Joana’s death and of entertaining an incestuous relationship and that Joana’s body, which remains missing, was dismembered.

Leonor Cipriano’s lawyer will make a statement this afternoon, after the testimony, which is eight pages long, is delivered at the Court of Faro.

This revelation is made on the day of the trial of alleged aggressions against Leonor Cipriano by Polícia Judiciária inspectors.

Joana’s mother, Leonor Cipriano, and her uncle, João Cipriano, have been condemned by the Supreme Court of Justice to 16 years in prison each, over the crimes of homicide and concealment of the child’s cadaver.


source: Lusa, 16.01.2009

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It was nothing to do with her appeal. What purpose do you think Leonor's fresh "confession" served during the trial of the 5 PJ Inspectors accused of torture? It didn't show Leonor in a good light.

[Sunny]

Leonor Cipriano amending testimony and says daughter was killed by uncle
January 16, 2009, 13:05


Leonor Cipriano changed her testimony concerning the disappearance of her daughter, in Portimão on the 12th of September 2004. In a witness statement that she signed at the prison of Odemira yesterday, Leonor Cipriano accuses her brother, João Manuel Domingos Cipriano, of being the author of the child’s death.

Beforehand, they intended to simulate an abduction and to send the child to Spain, in exchange for money. This process did not work according to plan and ended up being transformed into a homicide that was carried out by the child’s uncle.

The Public Ministry accuses the child’s mother and uncle of being the authors of Joana’s death and of entertaining an incestuous relationship and that Joana’s body, which remains missing, was dismembered.

Leonor Cipriano’s lawyer will make a statement this afternoon, after the testimony, which is eight pages long, is delivered at the Court of Faro.

This revelation is made on the day of the trial of alleged aggressions against Leonor Cipriano by Polícia Judiciária inspectors.

Joana’s mother, Leonor Cipriano, and her uncle, João Cipriano, have been condemned by the Supreme Court of Justice to 16 years in prison each, over the crimes of homicide and concealment of the child’s cadaver.


source: Lusa, 16.01.2009

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was nothing to do with her appeal. What purpose do you think Leonor's fresh "confession" served during the trial of the 5 PJ Inspectors accused of torture? It didn't show Leonor in a good light.

So you are saying that the letter contained in this this link, previously supplied by Angelo https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/01/translation-of-leonor-ciprianos.html? where she starts her letter with

I the undersigned Leonor Maria Domingos Cipriano, inmate number 34 at the Prison of Odemira, today the 15th of January 2009, confess and swear that this is the entire truth that I know about the disappearance of my daughter Joana Isabel Cipriano Guerreiro


Was actually made in October 2004, really?

[misty]

So you are saying that the letter contained in this this link, previously supplied by Angelo https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/01/translation-of-leonor-ciprianos.html? where she starts her letter with

I the undersigned Leonor Maria Domingos Cipriano, inmate number 34 at the Prison of Odemira, today the 15th of January 2009, confess and swear that this is the entire truth that I know about the disappearance of my daughter Joana Isabel Cipriano Guerreiro


Was actually made in October 2004, really?

No, not at all. This "fresh" confession was purportedly written out by Leonor's new lawyer, Marcos Aragão Correia,  in Jan 2009 at the time the 5 PJ inspectors were on trial. Apparently she could barely write, so I would question whether or not she could read what was written in any of her statements when ratifying & signing.
I'm just trying to establish what significance this new testimony has to that trial, not an appeal, as far as Angelo is concerned.

[Angelo222]

My mistake, I was recalling from memory.  Her reason for allegedly coming clean at that point was that she was preparing the way for early release.

[misty]

My mistake, I was recalling from memory.  Her reason for allegedly coming clean at that point was that she was preparing the way for early release.

I'm still not understanding what relevance this confession had to the torture trial. What was Correia hoping to achieve on Leonor's behalf?

[Sunny]

No, not at all. This "fresh" confession was purportedly written out by Leonor's new lawyer, Marcos Aragão Correia,  in Jan 2009 at the time the 5 PJ inspectors were on trial. Apparently she could barely write, so I would question whether or not she could read what was written in any of her statements when ratifying & signing.
I'm just trying to establish what significance this new testimony has to that trial, not an appeal, as far as Angelo is concerned.

I believe you are correct that Leonor didn't write the statement herself as the signatures at the bottom of the page are in a different hand to the bulk of the writing.  However I do not believe that she was unaware of what was written on those pages and therefore presumably agreed with what was there.

What motives would Marcos Aragão Correia, her own lawyer, have for making her sign a confession implicating her in the murder of her daughter?

[misty]

I believe you are correct that Leonor didn't write the statement herself as the signatures at the bottom of the page are in a different hand to the bulk of the writing.  However I do not believe that she was unaware of what was written on those pages and therefore presumably agreed with what was there.

What motives would Marcos Aragão Correia, her own lawyer, have for making her sign a confession implicating her in the murder of her daughter?

I think Leonor was merely confessing to complicity in attempting to obtain remuneration by permitting Joana to be illegally adopted by a foreign couple but the deal went wrong. Like you, I am at a loss to understand why Correia would want to introduce a new confession, years after the original one, into the torture trial. It just doesn't make any sense but I don't know what was said in court about it in 2009.