UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Common sense on April 30, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
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It seems the much talked about judicial review has already failed on the papers. I was foolish enough to gain the probably deliberately intended false impression that permission for the JR had already been granted and the hearing they were waiting for was the JR itself, not a renewal hearing.
Apparently CAL has been given files that Bamber hasn't seen and he thinks he has a right to nitpick for typos to exploit no matter how irrelevant a fishing expedition it is.
We shall see.
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Good luck to #JeremyBamber and his legal team who are seeking permission for judicial review in a renewed oral application in Leeds Administrative Court tomorrow against the CPS refusal to disclose vital evidence in his case
#Justice
https://twitter.com/tru68/status/125582097816214323
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence
Mark Newby a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, said: “Since proceedings were issued it came to our attention that the author of the book the ITV drama was based upon appears to have received material directly from the police.
“It cannot be right that an author has been given material that Mr Bamber’s defence team have not seen, particularly in light of the persistent refusal by the CPS to disclose specific material we have been asking for. It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice.”
Bamber, speaking from Wakefield prison, told the Guardian: “It is disgusting that a third party was provided with documents and sensitive photographs when Essex police and the CPS have been unwilling to hand over material to our own forensic experts to prove that two silencers were recovered from the scene.
“Despite court orders being in place for them to make full disclosure to us, which they deliberately chose to ignore, when Carol Ann Lee requested material she was given it without a second thought. Where is my justice?”
A spokesperson for Essex police said: “We are aware of the claim made by Jeremy Bamber and can confirm that this matter forms part of an ongoing judicial review. As this matter is therefore the subject of a forthcoming legal hearing it would not be appropriate for us to comment further.”
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It seems the much talked about judicial review has already failed on the papers. I was foolish enough to gain the probably deliberately intended false impression that permission for the JR had already been granted and the hearing they were waiting for was the JR itself, not a renewal hearing.
Apparently CAL has been given files that Bamber hasn't seen and he thinks he has a right to nitpick for typos to exploit no matter how irrelevant a fishing expedition it is.
We shall see.
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Good luck to #JeremyBamber and his legal team who are seeking permission for judicial review in a renewed oral application in Leeds Administrative Court tomorrow against the CPS refusal to disclose vital evidence in his case
#Justice
https://twitter.com/tru68/status/125582097816214323
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence
Mark Newby a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, said: “Since proceedings were issued it came to our attention that the author of the book the ITV drama was based upon appears to have received material directly from the police.
“It cannot be right that an author has been given material that Mr Bamber’s defence team have not seen, particularly in light of the persistent refusal by the CPS to disclose specific material we have been asking for. It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice.”
Bamber, speaking from Wakefield prison, told the Guardian: “It is disgusting that a third party was provided with documents and sensitive photographs when Essex police and the CPS have been unwilling to hand over material to our own forensic experts to prove that two silencers were recovered from the scene.
“Despite court orders being in place for them to make full disclosure to us, which they deliberately chose to ignore, when Carol Ann Lee requested material she was given it without a second thought. Where is my justice?”
A spokesperson for Essex police said: “We are aware of the claim made by Jeremy Bamber and can confirm that this matter forms part of an ongoing judicial review. As this matter is therefore the subject of a forthcoming legal hearing it would not be appropriate for us to comment further.”
The material they are talking about are CS pictures of the twins and she wasn't given it 'material', she viewed it onsite. Why on earth would that help their case. Surely Bamber remembers the scene of the two dead little boys? It must be etched on his memory. Isn't it typically of the CT not to be specific about the material - I guess saying that Bamber wants such photographs wouldn't look too good.
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The material they are talking about are CS pictures of the twins and she wasn't given it 'material', she viewed it onsite. Why on earth would that help their case. Surely Bamber remembers the scene of the two dead little boys? It must be etched on his memory. Isn't it typically of the CT not to be specific about the material - I guess saying that Bamber wants such photographs wouldn't look too good.
Yes, CAL said that one photograph in particular convinced her that Bamber did it, although she wasn't specific about it.
The whole Bamber campaign reeks of dishonesty and pretence which his dim more gullible supporters refuse to see while the more intelligent ones must pass it off as irrelevant as to his character in 1985, as though persistent lying and throwing red herrings are only a recent feature.
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Can you cut the insults please. I don't like it and nor is it necessary.
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I really take little notice of all this stuff.
I thought the JR? was about ful disclosure of material held under pii and/or files still not released?
I can't believe there will be any smoking gun in any file. If anything ever existed it would have been destroyed imo in the same way trial exhibits were.
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Can you cut the insults please. I don't like it and nor is it necessary.
What insults?
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I really take little notice of all this stuff.
I thought the JR? was about ful disclosure of material held under pii and/or files still not released?
I can't believe there will be any smoking gun in any file. If anything ever existed it would have been destroyed imo in the same way trial exhibits were.
It's just a fishing expedition IMO but one designed to give a false impression of yet another deliberate conspiracy that he is the victim of.
For me, the actions of JB ltd reveal contemporaneous evidence about his character which shouldn't be ignored. This is not just a naive man that is easily lead, it is a cunning man intent on misleading others.
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What insults?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who wondered. I just thought the post had been removed.
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Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Good luck to #JeremyBamber and his legal team who are seeking permission for judicial review in a renewed oral application in Leeds Administrative Court tomorrow against the CPS refusal to disclose vital evidence in his case
#Justice
https://twitter.com/tru68/status/125582097816214323
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@tru68
and
@jbcampaignltd
How refreshing to have Mr Bamber referred to by his name, and not by his conviction tag. If the @guardian
can do it, why can’t other newspapers? Barry George had to live with the tag of HIS conviction too. No one ever apologised for doing that!
William Beck
@WullieBeck
Replying to
@tru68
If the courts down south are anything like our Scottish courts they will allow CPS to keep the material hidden.
Disclosure is an absolute joke.
@)(++(*
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It's just a fishing expedition IMO but one designed to give a false impression of yet another deliberate conspiracy that he is the victim of.
For me, the actions of JB ltd reveal contemporaneous evidence about his character which shouldn't be ignored. This is not just a naive man that is easily lead, it is a cunning man intent on misleading others.
Who is the legal team made up of?
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Im sure it'll be thrown out in 20 minutes like last time in November 2012. The President of the Queens Bench Division at the time Sir John Thomas basically laughed him out of court - I was there. The judiciary know about his case - he's not going to get another appeal, as the CCRC will never allow him one.
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Im sure it'll be thrown out in 20 minutes like last time in November 2012. The President of the Queens Bench Division at the time Sir John Thomas basically laughed him out of court - I was there. The judiciary know about his case - he's not going to get another appeal, as the CCRC will never allow him one.
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Important proceedings against CPS on #disclosure tomorrow in Leeds Administrative Court #JeremyBamber renewed oral judicial review hearing
#Justice
#NoDisclosureNoJustice
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/status/1255806964849836033
5 likes
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Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@tru68
and
@jbcampaignltd
How refreshing to have Mr Bamber referred to by his name, and not by his conviction tag. If the @guardian
can do it, why can’t other newspapers? Barry George had to live with the tag of HIS conviction too. No one ever apologised for doing that!
William Beck
@WullieBeck
Replying to
@tru68
If the courts down south are anything like our Scottish courts they will allow CPS to keep the material hidden.
Disclosure is an absolute joke.
@)(++(*
10 retweets
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence
It’s that ‘all seeing eye’ again
“Lee posted an image on Instagram showing a series of numbered documents that have not been disclosed to the defence. She wrote on Instagram: “It was interesting to see and read all the original material.”
The numbered documents taken from Holmes boxes (an administrative system introduced in 1985 to support major investigations) include files numbered 75/13 and 75/15, which Bamber says he has never seen. After Bamber’s legal team complained to the CPS the Instagram post was deleted.
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It's just a fishing expedition IMO but one designed to give a false impression of yet another deliberate conspiracy that he is the victim of.
For me, the actions of JB ltd reveal contemporaneous evidence about his character which shouldn't be ignored. This is not just a naive man that is easily lead, it is a cunning man intent on misleading others.
sophisticated
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It’s that ‘all seeing eye’ again
“Lee posted an image on Instagram showing a series of numbered documents that have not been disclosed to the defence. She wrote on Instagram: “It was interesting to see and read all the original material.”
The numbered documents taken from Holmes boxes (an administrative system introduced in 1985 to support major investigations) include files numbered 75/13 and 75/15, which Bamber says he has never seen. After Bamber’s legal team complained to the CPS the Instagram post was deleted.
The stupid thing is, they wouldn't be showing an author documents that proved Bamber was innocent, in all lilkliehood, even if he hasn't seen them (which I doubt) it will be just more evidence of his guilt.
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Tom Pyman (https://muckrack.com/tom-pyman) for the Daily Mail
“Mark Newby, a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents him, said the row
'raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8273361/Jeremy-Bambers-lawyers-demand-CPS-hand-withheld-papers-disclosed-author-ITV-drama.html
What about innocence fraud - which it quite obviously is in this case started by Bamber after he’d murdered his family
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Tom Pyman (https://muckrack.com/tom-pyman) for the Daily Mail
“Mark Newby, a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents him, said the row
'raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8273361/Jeremy-Bambers-lawyers-demand-CPS-hand-withheld-papers-disclosed-author-ITV-drama.html
Mark Newby really ought to look closely at Bamber’s ‘work of fiction’ before he cast aspersions elsewhere
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Tom Pyman for the Daily ?Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8273361/Jeremy-Bambers-lawyers-demand-CPS-hand-withheld-papers-disclosed-author-ITV-drama.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8273361/Jeremy-Bambers-lawyers-demand-CPS-hand-withheld-papers-disclosed-author-ITV-drama.html)
Those Instagram photos which CAL posted are not the original crime scene ones of the worktop or Sheila's neck, are they?
Actual crime scene photo above and ITV WHF scene below...
(https://i.imgur.com/2bvvZH8.jpg)
This is a screenshot of the worktop from the ITV series, exactly the same as the one in the Mail article...
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Poppy Ann Miller™
@PoppyMeze
Tomorrow at Leeds Administrative Ct. #JeremyBamber & his lawyers seeking judicial review of CPS refusal to disclose evidence. Files, unseen by Bamber's team were also disclosed to Carol Ann Lee, author of the #WhiteHouseFarm 'fairy tale' #ITV
https://mobile.twitter.com/PoppyMeze/status/1255834387301707776
Poppy Ann Miller referring to the murders as a ‘fairy tale’ *&^^&
Suspect that’s what it’s become in her mind after all these years
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Those Instagram photos which CAL posted are not the original crime scene ones of the worktop or Sheila's neck, are they?
This is a screenshot of the worktop from the ITV series, exactly the same as the one in the Mail article...
No
Her instagram post clearly states:
‘Here are some of the exhibits used in the drama’
Can’t upload the insta post & photo from the dailymail article but underneath it reads:
“The author posted several images on social media of her work on the book (above) including one of pages provided to her by Essex Police, but not to the defence, as part of her research
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Those Instagram photos which CAL posted are not the original crime scene ones of the worktop or Sheila's neck, are they?
This is a screenshot of the worktop from the ITV series, exactly the same as the one in the Mail article...
The Formica worktop in the Bamber kitchen hadn't looked that pristine in a long time!!!
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No
Her instagram post clearly states:
‘Here are some of the exhibits used in the drama’
Can’t upload the insta post & photo from the dailymail article but underneath it reads:
“The author posted several images on social media of her work on the book (above) including one of pages provided to her by Essex Police, but not to the defence, as part of her research
So the article is wrong as it isn't the actual crime scene photo!(https://i.imgur.com/LvIwxNn.jpg)
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Poppy Ann Miller™
@PoppyMeze
Tomorrow at Leeds Administrative Ct. #JeremyBamber & his lawyers seeking judicial review of CPS refusal to disclose evidence. Files, unseen by Bamber's team were also disclosed to Carol Ann Lee, author of the #WhiteHouseFarm 'fairy tale' #ITV
https://mobile.twitter.com/PoppyMeze/status/1255834387301707776
Poppy Ann Miller referring to the murders as a ‘fairy tale’ *&^^&
Suspect that’s what it’s become in her mind after all these years
What was Scott Lomax’s book?
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So the article is wrong as it isn't the actual crime scene photo!
Of course it isn’t the actual crime scene photo
CAL’s instagram shows pics of exhibits from the drama - she made that clear
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The material they are talking about are CS pictures of the twins and she wasn't given it 'material', she viewed it onsite. Why on earth would that help their case. Surely Bamber remembers the scene of the two dead little boys? It must be etched on his memory. Isn't it typically of the CT not to be specific about the material - I guess saying that Bamber wants such photographs wouldn't look too good.
Mark Newby isn’t sharp, is he?
He complains that CAL received documents/evidence from the police, then goes on to say:
“It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice”
So is the evidence she received, evidence, or is it fiction?
No wonder he’s scraped the barrel representing Jeremy Bamber...he’ll be regretting all this soon 😌
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Who is the legal team made up of?
An under achiever who scraped through a law degree and works in a little firm of solicitors in a little town somewhere...
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Mark Newby isn’t sharp, is he?
He complains that CAL received documents/evidence from the police, then goes on to say:
“It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice”
So is the evidence she received, evidence, or is it fiction?
No wonder he’s scraped the barrel representing Jeremy Bamber...he’ll be regretting all this soon 😌
8((()*/
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Mark Newby isn’t sharp, is he?
Of all the cases *&^^&
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If anything ever existed it would have been destroyed imo in the same way trial exhibits were.
Bamber’s pre trial assessment hasn’t been destroyed Holly - it’s still in existence
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The material they are talking about are CS pictures of the twins and she wasn't given it 'material', she viewed it onsite. Why on earth would that help their case. Surely Bamber remembers the scene of the two dead little boys? It must be etched on his memory. Isn't it typically of the CT not to be specific about the material - I guess saying that Bamber wants such photographs wouldn't look too good.
Has Bamber got copies of these photos ?
*&^^&
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It's just a fishing expedition IMO but one designed to give a false impression of yet another deliberate conspiracy that he is the victim of.
For me, the actions of JB ltd reveal contemporaneous evidence about his character which shouldn't be ignored. This is not just a naive man that is easily lead, it is a cunning man intent on misleading others.
They haven’t been ignored 8((()*/
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Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Good luck to #JeremyBamber and his legal team who are seeking permission for judicial review in a renewed oral application in Leeds Administrative Court tomorrow against the CPS refusal to disclose vital evidence in his case
#Justice
https://twitter.com/tru68/status/125582097816214323
Tru Benjamin Retweeted
Dr Rosena Allin-Khan
@DrRosena
Domestic abuse is caused by abusers who manipulate and control their partners, not a bit of extra stress.
Lazy language from a Prime Minister.
https://mobile.twitter.com/tru68/with_replies
*&^^&
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Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Feb 29
The moral authority of the verdict in #JeremyBamber’s trial is in question because of the vital and widespread disclosure failures in this case - How can the public have faith in a system that fails to respect the defendants right to equality of arms #NoDisclosureNoJustice
https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%40tru68&src=typed_query
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Those Instagram photos which CAL posted are not the original crime scene ones of the worktop or Sheila's neck, are they?
Actual crime scene photo above and ITV WHF scene below...
(https://i.imgur.com/2bvvZH8.jpg)
This is a screenshot of the worktop from the ITV series, exactly the same as the one in the Mail article...
I wonder if the defence will cite Carol as Witness, as she was given evidence which could have proved him Innocent- what skulduggery is this?
Infamy infamy they all have it infamy!
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I wonder if the defence will cite Carol as Witness, as she was given evidence which could have proved him Innocent- what skulduggery is this?
Infamy infamy they all have it infamy!
She has surely seen the photo of Sheila posing with Taff Jones taken just before Crispy comes up and pulls the trigger.. we all know what really happened. @)(++(*
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Apparently CAL has been given files that Bamber hasn't seen and he thinks he has a right to nitpick for typos to exploit no matter how irrelevant a fishing expedition it is.
12 weeks ago
Carol Ann Lee via instagram
“For the past few weeks Jeremy Bamber’s Campaign Team have repeated a Tweet in which they claimed I had only received five or six letters from Jeremy himself before the police/prison services forced me to stop writing to him. Neither of these claims are true but both have been repeated on Twitter and elsewhere, leading to a steady stream of full-on abuse directed at me by some of the Bamber supporters. I would not normally respond to trolls or bullies but in this instance, because the source of the story was the official Bamber campaign team, and has been used in a futile attempt to also discredit the outstanding production that is ‘White House Farm’, I’m posting a section of the letters I received from Jeremy during our three year correspondence, which gradually tailed off and ended when he wrote to say that he could ‘no longer write meaningful letters’ about his case. I have no problem with anyone believing Jeremy to be innocent but hope that no one takes the word of the campaign team as a basis for that. And that’s all I have to say on the matter. #whitehousefarm #truecrime #factsnotfiction #standuptobullies #internettrolls
8@??)(
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Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@tru68
and
@jbcampaignltd
How refreshing to have Mr Bamber referred to by his name, and not by his conviction tag. If the @guardian
can do it, why can’t other newspapers? Barry George had to live with the tag of HIS conviction too. No one ever apologised for doing that!
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
If you’re interested in true crime (the truth) you’ll find it in here.
Quote Tweet
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
· 7h
A special offer for a limited time. Just £1.49 https://amazon.co.uk/Jeremy-Bamber-Scott-Lomax-ebook/dp/B00D0UXVTE/ref=zg_bs_5435505031_47?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=HJH2DF4JGJ0XTMN469T0… #JeremyBamber #whitehousefarm
Image
7:12 AM · May 1, 2020·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1256104173097148416
*&^^&
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Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
It's self evident that if police won't hand over what's requested ( and has been ordered to be disclosed in court) that there is deliberate concealment.
Quite clear what that is as well. It is all the evidence which proves it was Sheila.
Long to feel pride in country again.
Quote Tweet
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
· Apr 29
Read this comment, and sign the #petition:
"It's a disgrace an I believe theres hidden evidence amongst the undisclosed files."
Sign the petition!
#JeremyBamber #WhiteHouseFarm
http://chng.it/kdykqkCx http://chng.it/ShPXdgJx via @UKChange
11:42 AM · Apr 29, 2020·Twitter Web App
Fighting for Justice
@justice_waiting
Apr 29
Replying to
@lizyeld
It is as clear as day that it was sheila. What are the police hiding?
Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
Apr 29
Taff Jones, original police investigator always knew it was Sheila and that JB had nothing to do with it. Tragically killed a week before trial. After relatives had conducted what Simon Lomax describes as the "unofficial investigation" and Mugford lied, police "changed focus."
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
I normally get called Steve (not sure why). Simon is a new one :)
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Face with tears of joy
https://mobile.twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1255447437864570880
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Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
It's self evident that if police won't hand over what's requested ( and has been ordered to be disclosed in court) that there is deliberate concealment.
Quite clear what that is as well. It is all the evidence which proves it was Sheila.
Long to feel pride in country again.
Quote Tweet
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
· Apr 29
Read this comment, and sign the #petition:
"It's a disgrace an I believe theres hidden evidence amongst the undisclosed files."
Sign the petition!
#JeremyBamber #WhiteHouseFarm
http://chng.it/kdykqkCx http://chng.it/ShPXdgJx via @UKChange
11:42 AM · Apr 29, 2020·Twitter Web App
Fighting for Justice
@justice_waiting
Apr 29
Replying to
@lizyeld
It is as clear as day that it was sheila. What are the police hiding?
Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
Apr 29
Taff Jones, original police investigator always knew it was Sheila and that JB had nothing to do with it. Tragically killed a week before trial. After relatives had conducted what Simon Lomax describes as the "unofficial investigation" and Mugford lied, police "changed focus."
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
I normally get called Steve (not sure why). Simon is a new one :)
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Face with tears of joy
https://mobile.twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1255447437864570880
You can see that the CT have some success with those that have a biased view of the CJS and superficial understanding of the case.
This makes me question the motives behind the JR attempt - there is surely no evidence left to disclose so is it a cynical ploy to promote the carefully crafted illusion that the "corrupt justice system knows JB is innocent" but prefer to let an innocent man rot in jail rather than admit it?
The pretence that there is an impressive and irrefutable case for innocence seems to be swallowed whole:
Havelock Vetinari.
@teadrinker19
·
3m
The blood could have came from an animal. The silencer wasn't even found until days later. The plod didn't examine Sheila because they thought it was a murder/suicide.
How do you know he didn't call him? Were YOU there? Or are you psychic?
Sheila's blood was wet. Hours later.
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Adjourned until 29th May
Simon Hattenstone
@shattenstone
Jeremy Bamber's court hearing for disclosure of vital docs has been adjourned till May 29. Attached are some of the docs that were passed by Essex police officers to Carol Ann Lee, the author who contributed to the recent TV drama, but not disclosed to Bamber.
https://mobile.twitter.com/shattenstone/status/1256170632670261248
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Adjourned until 29th May
Simon Hattenstone
@shattenstone
Jeremy Bamber's court hearing for disclosure of vital docs has been adjourned till May 29. Attached are some of the docs that were passed by Essex police officers to Carol Ann Lee, the author who contributed to the recent TV drama, but not disclosed to Bamber.
https://mobile.twitter.com/shattenstone/status/1256170632670261248
Aww... Trudi will have to put the champagne back in the fridge and hang on to the party poppers.
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Pinned Tweet
Heidi
@HeidiHawkins39
Carol Ann Lee (#WhiteHouseFarm drama) said Essex police assisted her research by providing her with documents. She posted an image on Instagram showing a series of them not disclosed to #JeremyBamber's defence team.
The Instagram post has been deleted.
Jeremy Bamber lawyers seek review of CPS refusal to disclose evidence
Bamber is serving life sentence for killing his a parents, sister and her twin boys in 1985
theguardian.com
11:40 AM · Apr 30, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/HeidiHawkins39/status/1255809325857148929
Mick Geen Retweeted
Heidi
@HeidiHawkins39
“It is disgusting that a 3rd party was provided with documents & sensitive photographs when Essex police & the CPS have been unwilling to hand over material to our own forensic experts to prove that 2 silencers were recovered from the scene." #JeremyBamber
Jeremy Bamber lawyers seek review of CPS refusal to disclose evidence
Bamber is serving life sentence for killing his a parents, sister and her twin boys in 1985
theguardian.com
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
Replying to
@HeidiHawkins39 and @guardian
indeed. They refuse to confirm or deny the existence of documents and then willingly share them with this author
https://mobile.twitter.com/HeidiHawkins39/status/1256168882940907520
*&^^&
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SC Lomax
@SCLomax
I asked Essex Police to answer questions for my book. They refused to answer even the simplest. Why then so accommodating to another author?
12:30 PM · May 1, 2020·Twitter for iPad
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@SCLomax
She was not considered an enemy of the state?
https://mobile.twitter.com/SCLomax/status/1256184199440195589
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
I am still waiting for a response to my request for an internal review. Refusing evidence to Jeremy Bamber's campaign back in 2010.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SCLomax/status/1256185567173320706
Maybe an Admin can upload Lomax’s photo
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
Keeping everything crossed for #JeremyBamber. At least the truth is very nearly as popular as the fiction.
12:14 PM · May 1, 2020·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/SCLomax/status/1256180123528826882
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Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
I could not recommend this book more highly.
Ten yrs ago, it never occurred to me that courts could get it badly wrong.
If you are like I was, read this book.
There is an obligation on ALL of us, (which I realised late) to defend our fellow men from excesses of State errors.
8:59 AM · May 1, 2020·Twitter Web App
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
Replying to
@lizyeld
thank you
James
@J26thacc
Replying to
@lizyeld
Thoughts on Carolines book on it?
Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
Have never read on principle and since recent film was based on it, wouldn't watch that either.
I know from people I trust completely it was based on chat rooms and betrayal of JB. She exchanged letters with JB pretending to believe in his innocence from what I understand. Nice.
https://mobile.twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1256131099710889984
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“Jeremy Bamber continues to pursue his judicial review against the Director of Public Prosecutions over serious non disclosures and non-compliance with previous Court of Appeal orders .
The matter came before the Honorarable Mr Justice Knowles on 1st May 2020 . On the 30th April we received from the Crown a Skeleton Argument which raised a significant amount of material upon which fairness dictated that Jeremy Bamber should be able to comment upon
The Crown opposed the application to adjourn but it was granted .
Accordingly the matter has now been adjourned until 29th May and we expect to file a robust response to the Crown in advance of the hearing
At this stage no skeleton arguments will be released from the case but the Court will reconsider release once the amended skeleton argument has been filed .
https://www.qualitysolicitors.com/jordans/news/2020/05/jeremy-bamber-judicial-review-adjourned
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Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
Why would the prosecution refuse to disclose all of the evidence to Jeremy Bamber’s defence or appeal lawyers? Are they withholding evidence that might support his claim of innocence? Does the public not have a right to the truth? What do you think?
12:16 PM · May 1, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
1h
Replying to
@EmpowerInnocent
The Crown tried to pull a fast one at the JR yesterday, they had loads of documents via Skype, that J Bamber’s team had never seen, then tried to stop the adjournment! Playing dirty Pile of poo
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmpowerInnocent/status/1256180629412118528
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@SCLomax
I am still waiting for a response to my request for an internal review. Refusing evidence to Jeremy Bamber's campaign back in 2010.[/color]
https://mobile.twitter.com/SCLomax/status/1256185567173320706
Maybe an Admin can upload Lomax’s photo
[attachment deleted by admin]
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8((()*/
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Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
I could not recommend this book more highly.
Ten yrs ago, it never occurred to me that courts could get it badly wrong.
If you are like I was, read this book.
There is an obligation on ALL of us, (which I realised late) to defend our fellow men from excesses of State errors.
8:59 AM · May 1, 2020·Twitter Web App
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
Replying to
@lizyeld
thank you
James
@J26thacc
Replying to
@lizyeld
Thoughts on Carolines book on it?
Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
Have never read on principle and since recent film was based on it, wouldn't watch that either.
I know from people I trust completely it was based on chat rooms and betrayal of JB. She exchanged letters with JB pretending to believe in his innocence from what I understand. Nice.
https://mobile.twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1256131099710889984
Have these further slurs been highlighted to relevant parties?
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SL seems to be taking it very personally that he is not considered a credible author that will treat information fairly and responsibly. Maybe he should put some effort into becoming one?
Seems likely the police looked up some of his Bamber articles still on the internet.
It could have been rabbits blood in the silencer you know!
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
·
1h
I asked Essex Police to answer questions for my book. They refused to answer even the simplest. Why then so accommodating to another author?
-
SL seems to be taking it very personally that he is not considered a credible author that will treat information fairly and responsibly. Maybe he should put some effort into becoming one?
Seems likely the police looked up some of his Bamber articles still on the internet.
It could have been rabbits blood in the silencer you know!
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
·
1h
I asked Essex Police to answer questions for my book. They refused to answer even the simplest. Why then so accommodating to another author?
Probably because of his angle. I asked SL where he got a particular piece of info from, he said I should contact the CT because he didn't have time to look - but that he must have seen a document. Clear as mud there!
-
Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
I could not recommend this book more highly.
Ten yrs ago, it never occurred to me that courts could get it badly wrong.
If you are like I was, read this book.
There is an obligation on ALL of us, (which I realised late) to defend our fellow men from excesses of State errors.
8:59 AM · May 1, 2020·Twitter Web App
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
Replying to
@lizyeld
thank you
James
@J26thacc
Replying to
@lizyeld
Thoughts on Carolines book on it?
Elizabeth Yeld
@lizyeld
Have never read on principle and since recent film was based on it, wouldn't watch that either.
I know from people I trust completely it was based on chat rooms and betrayal of JB. She exchanged letters with JB pretending to believe in his innocence from what I understand. Nice.
https://mobile.twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1256131099710889984
Caroline? @)(++(* @)(++(* - wonder if that's a Freudian slip? Seems like Liz thinks I wrote CAL's book! &%%6
-
Probably because of his angle. I asked SL where he got a particular piece of info from, he said I should contact the CT because he didn't have time to look - but that he must have seen a document. Clear as mud there!
S Lean warned me Lomax was not to be trusted; in not so many words. He turned on me after I rejected him following contact from him re Halls case/campaign
-
Caroline? @)(++(* @)(++(* - wonder if that's a Freudian slip? Seems like Liz thinks I wrote CAL's book! &%%6
Who knows
‘James’ referred to ‘Caroline’ ?
Maybe Liz thinks Carol is short for Caroline?
-
S Lean warned me Lomax was not to be trusted; in not so many words. He turned on me after I rejected him following contact from him re Halls case/campaign
&%%6 - you made the right decision.
-
Have never read on principle and since recent film was based on it, wouldn't watch that either.
I know from people I trust completely it was based on chat rooms and betrayal of JB. She exchanged letters with JB pretending to believe in his innocence from what I understand. Nice./quote]
Have these further slurs been highlighted to relevant parties?
This is from a woman who on the opinion of someone she trusts completely believes that 80% of those convicted of historical sex offences are completely innocent while the other 20% are exaggerated. She is neither deluded or in denial she says.
Personally I never trust the opinion of someone who slates a book they haven't read
-
&%%6 - you made the right decision.
I didn’t - turns out none of them were to be trusted
-
Who knows
That criticism has been levelled at me in the past - I stopped writing to Bamber after I began to suspect him. They talk about him like he's the Messiah. Perhaps the lady in question SHOULD have read CAL's book instead of keeping on her rose coloured specs! She might learn something.
-
Caroline? @)(++(* @)(++(* - wonder if that's a Freudian slip? Seems like Liz thinks I wrote CAL's book! &%%6
CarolINE/CarolANN *%87
-
S Lean warned me Lomax was not to be trusted; in not so many words. He turned on me after I rejected him following contact from him re Halls case/campaign
He seems to take things very personally.
I fact checked this tweet. SL was 90,000 places lower in the amazon sales rankings than CAL and CC!
Ben H
@benh1973
·
20 Mar
Colin Caffel's book is doing a bit better than yours. I'm not surprised: it's far more accurate and well researched. Yours is a load of nonsense and the rankings reflect that.
2
2
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
Replying to
@benh1973
no it isn't. Did you not see the screenshot? Here is another
-
Here is a short reminder of the quality of SL's work:
Ralph had no defence injuries consistent with the view that he had been involved in any struggle. With the only injuries, upon his body, being those resulting from the gunshots, it is hard to conceive that he had been subjected to a fierce attack. Additionally Bamber had no injuries suggesting he had fought with his father. The police had carefully inspected his hands in particular and noticed nothing unusual. Even Mugford did not comment on the presence of any injuries or marks upon Bamber's body. If she was aware of such marks then, in her lengthy statements and trial evidence, she would have mentioned them. The fact that this witness, who following the tragedy had seen Bamber naked, did not notice any indications that he had been in a fight strongly suggests that no such indications had ever existed.
Full article here :http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/legan/legan042.htm
SL also tells people that Bamber would be free by now if only JB had listened to him.
-
Caroline? @)(++(* @)(++(* - wonder if that's a Freudian slip? Seems like Liz thinks I wrote CAL's book! &%%6
Though with respect, unless she knows of this and the blue forum - which I doubt - she’s probably never heard of you Caroline
-
He seems to take things very personally.
I fact checked this tweet. SL was 90,000 places lower in the amazon sales rankings than CAL and CC!
Ben H
@benh1973
·
20 Mar
Colin Caffel's book is doing a bit better than yours. I'm not surprised: it's far more accurate and well researched. Yours is a load of nonsense and the rankings reflect that.
2
2
SC Lomax
@SCLomax
Replying to
@benh1973
no it isn't. Did you not see the screenshot? Here is another
@)(++(*
-
Here is a short reminder of the quality of SL's work:
Ralph had no defence injuries consistent with the view that he had been involved in any struggle. With the only injuries, upon his body, being those resulting from the gunshots, it is hard to conceive that he had been subjected to a fierce attack. Additionally Bamber had no injuries suggesting he had fought with his father. The police had carefully inspected his hands in particular and noticed nothing unusual. Even Mugford did not comment on the presence of any injuries or marks upon Bamber's body. If she was aware of such marks then, in her lengthy statements and trial evidence, she would have mentioned them. The fact that this witness, who following the tragedy had seen Bamber naked, did not notice any indications that he had been in a fight strongly suggests that no such indications had ever existed.
Full article here :http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/legan/legan042.htm
SL also tells people that Bamber would be free by now if only JB had listened to him.
What was is Bamber should have listened to?
-
What was is Bamber should have listened to?
Just the genius of SL I presume. @)(++(*
-
You can see that the CT have some success with those that have a biased view of the CJS and superficial understanding of the case.
This makes me question the motives behind the JR attempt - there is surely no evidence left to disclose so is it a cynical ploy to promote the carefully crafted illusion that the "corrupt justice system knows JB is innocent" but prefer to let an innocent man rot in jail rather than admit it?
The pretence that there is an impressive and irrefutable case for innocence seems to be swallowed whole:
Havelock Vetinari.
@teadrinker19
·
3m
The blood could have came from an animal. The silencer wasn't even found until days later. The plod didn't examine Sheila because they thought it was a murder/suicide.
How do you know he didn't call him? Were YOU there? Or are you psychic?
Sheila's blood was wet. Hours later.
I’ve seen Liz Yeld on Twitter and everyone laughs at her when she starts going mad. She’s uncouth and threatens people.
They put an appeal up for witnesses, and even claimed a police officer phoned the CT and were appealing for him to get back in touch “in confidence” 🤣
The nutty things they come out with!
Sheila had no wet blood, either. The shine on the blood was from the flash of the camera.
They’re all idiots.
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It's just a fishing expedition IMO but one designed to give a false impression of yet another deliberate conspiracy that he is the victim of.
For me, the actions of JB ltd reveal contemporaneous evidence about his character which shouldn't be ignored. This is not just a naive man that is easily lead, it is a cunning man intent on misleading others.
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/when-fiction-turns-into-fact
This article was headed,
”WHEN FICTION TURNS INTO FACT”
featuring a conversation with Hannah Quirk referring to ‘Making a Murderer’ & the Steven Avery case among other things.
John Collins, on Innocence Fraud, refers to the ‘drama’ of these types of cases here https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-roberta-glass-true-crime-r-30951716/episode/the-wrongful-conviction-of-forensic-science-52731384/
He refers to how ‘the drama of these types of cases impairs our ability to look at these cases objectively’
Worth listening to because it’s clearly similar to what Bamber’s attempting to achieve - very badly - via his campaign & legal team
He also refers to the ‘Shawshank phenomenon‘ - recommend this podcast (link above)
The ‘Secret Barrister’ on twitter created a blog on the ITV drama ‘Quiz’ https://thesecretbarrister.com/2020/04/18/does-it-matter-that-quiz-got-the-law-so-hopelessly-wrong/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
The Secret Barrister
@BarristerSecret
New blogpost: Does it matter that #Quiz got the law so hopelessly wrong? https://thesecretbarrister.com/2020/04/18/does-it-matter-that-quiz-got-the-law-so-hopelessly-wrong/…
(I am fully braced for the chorus of automatic "no"s that will congregate in the replies, but do have a read. I'm interested to know what you all think)
4:58 PM · Apr 18, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1251540712505708544
Many of those associated with the ‘innocence movement’ follow and appear to hang on to every word the SB tweets ?
Worth a listen ‘Damien Echols Chilld Killers Say the Darndest Things” (sic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYOie0tbCVI&feature=youtu.be
“Echols is also an activist working on behalf of others wrongly convicted. In 2016, he became involved in the case of Steven Avery, subject of the popular Netflix documentary series, Making a Murderer. Avery is currently serving a life sentence in the murder of 25-year-old Manitowoc County, Wisconsin resident Teresa Halbach. Like the West Memphis Three, Avery has a large group of supporters who believe he is innocent”
https://the-line-up.com/west-memphis-three-where-are-they-now
Michael O’Brien/Michelle Diskin Bates (sister of Barry George) are like what Damian Echol’s was/is to Steven Avery
Their facade as I see it isn’t working
Only 2 news articles were published on Bamber’s latest BS - the public aren’t as daft as he, and those supporting him, seem to believe
’Making a Murderer: Is our criminal appeals process any better?’ (2016)
Disapprove and denounce the convictions of Avery and Dassey all you like, but it doesn’t seem our criminal appeals system is all too hot on factual miscarriages of justice either.
It’s difficult to see a way out of this hole. This certainly isn’t just a case of simple legal reform. Criminal trials are, and always have been, highly technical affairs — a shift in institutional focus is at best unlikely. The CCRC, on the other hand, is a recent development. It’s more amenable to change, more able to accept wide-ranging reforms, and more able to fulfill its public mandate.
So focus here (http://www.innocencenetwork.org.uk/criminal-justice-system-still-failing-the-innocent) The Innocence Network UK has a pretty good suggestion — repeal the real possibility test, and replace it:
with a test that allows the CCRC to refer a conviction back to the Court of Appeal if it thinks that the applicant is or might be innocent.
Only then will we have a proper recourse available to the factually innocent, the Averys and Dasseys of England.
Sources
Naughton, M (2009). The Criminal Cases Review Commission: Hope for the Innocent?. Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan.
https://www.legalcheek.com/lc-journal-posts/making-a-murderer-is-our-criminal-appeals-process-any-better/
By Owen Bowcott for the Guardian
“Investigations into miscarriages of justice are being hampered by premature destruction of court records, according to a campaign aimed at improving transparency in the criminal justice system.
The Open Justice Charter is calling for restrictions on access to evidence to be lifted and courtroom recordings of prosecutions to be made available for free to prisoners appealing against their convictions.
The campaign is being launched at a meeting in parliament on Tuesday, at which the US defence lawyer Dean Strang, who featured in the acclaimed Netflix series Making a Murderer, will talk about miscarriage of justice problems on both sides of the Atlantic.
Strang represented Steven Avery, a Wisconsin man who spent 18 years in jail for a crime he did not commit, only to be convicted of murder on his release. The documentary focused on failures in the US criminal justice system but also reached a large British audience.
The Open Justice Charter, supported by lawyers who have worked on innocence projects in both the US and the UK, calls for court recordings to be preserved for at least seven years after the end of any prison term and a transcript of the judge’s summing up to be kept permanently and made publicly available.
Recordings of crown court hearings are not routinely transcribed for review and are destroyed after five years. Digital recordings are only held for seven years under Ministry of Justice guidelines.
British criminal justice standards lag behind those in even “the poorest states” of the US, one of the charter’s authors, Emily Bolton, of the the London-based Centre for Criminal Appeals (CCA), claims.
Bolton, who used to work on death row cases in the US, is the CCA’s legal director. The other authors are Marika Henneberg, a law lecturer from Portsmouth University, Dr Dennis Eady, of Cardiff School of Law, and the journalist Louise Shorter, who formerly worked as a producer on the BBC’s Rough Justice.”
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/jan/31/destruction-of-court-records-hampers-miscarriage-of-justice-inquiries?CMP=share_btn_tw
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I’ve seen Liz Yeld on Twitter and everyone laughs at her when she starts going mad. She’s uncouth and threatens people.
They put an appeal up for witnesses, and even claimed a police officer phoned the CT and were appealing for him to get back in touch “in confidence” 🤣
The nutty things they come out with!
Sheila had no wet blood, either. The shine on the blood was from the flash of the camera.
They’re all idiots.
I've said it before but who really needs guilters?
Not all JB supporters are fools that instantly believe fake news but there is no getting away from the fact that many are.
I find the fact that JB ltd seems to deliberately appeal to conspiracy fantasists who refuse to check facts very telling.
-
I've said it before but who really needs guilters?
Not all JB supporters are fools that instantly believe fake news but there is no getting away from the fact that many are.
I find the fact that JB ltd seems to deliberately appeal to conspiracy fantasists who refuse to check facts very telling.
8((()*/
-
The whole Bamber campaign reeks of dishonesty and pretence which his dim more gullible supporters refuse to see while the more intelligent ones must pass it off as irrelevant as to his character in 1985, as though persistent lying and throwing red herrings are only a recent feature.
The ‘innocence movement’ is incestuous
And why does it appear the JB ltd campaign & others have jumped on the bandwagon of certain individuals from the US?
APPEAL
@C4CrimAppeals
Our legal director Emily Bolton interviews #MakingAMurderer's Dean Strang about #OpenJusticeCharter for
@JusticeGap
http://thejusticegap.com/2017/02/unacceptably-haphazard-steven-averys-lawyers-support-open-justice-campaign/
https://mobile.twitter.com/C4CrimAppeals/status/827456653125623808
https://www.thejusticegap.com/unacceptably-haphazard-steven-averys-lawyers-support-open-justice-campaign/
https://www.thejusticegap.com/liberty-backs-open-justice-charter/
https://www.thejusticegap.com/open-justice-charter-launch-id-rather-wrongfully-convicted-new-orleans-new-malden/
https://www.thejusticegap.com/ojc/
I find it hard to believe they haven’t heard of John Collins and innocence fraud
-
Here is a short reminder of the quality of SL's work:
Ralph had no defence injuries consistent with the view that he had been involved in any struggle. With the only injuries, upon his body, being those resulting from the gunshots, it is hard to conceive that he had been subjected to a fierce attack. Additionally Bamber had no injuries suggesting he had fought with his father. The police had carefully inspected his hands in particular and noticed nothing unusual. Even Mugford did not comment on the presence of any injuries or marks upon Bamber's body. If she was aware of such marks then, in her lengthy statements and trial evidence, she would have mentioned them. The fact that this witness, who following the tragedy had seen Bamber naked, did not notice any indications that he had been in a fight strongly suggests that no such indications had ever existed.
Full article here :http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/legan/legan042.htm
SL also tells people that Bamber would be free by now if only JB had listened to him.
It sounds like SL did no research, or just sloppy research.
How embarrassing to write “the police carefully inspected his hands and found no markings”
The police only looked at his hands about four weeks later — which was pointless on their part as any bruises/scratches would have healed by then.
Ahh! And to write that Nevill had no evidence of having been in a struggle...I can’t even comment on that.🤦♀️
-
The ‘innocence movement’ is incestuous
And why does it appear the JB ltd campaign & others have jumped on the bandwagon of certain individuals from the US?
APPEAL
@C4CrimAppeals
Our legal director Emily Bolton interviews #MakingAMurderer's Dean Strang about #OpenJusticeCharter for
@JusticeGap
http://thejusticegap.com/2017/02/unacceptably-haphazard-steven-averys-lawyers-support-open-justice-campaign/
https://mobile.twitter.com/C4CrimAppeals/status/827456653125623808
https://www.thejusticegap.com/unacceptably-haphazard-steven-averys-lawyers-support-open-justice-campaign/
https://www.thejusticegap.com/liberty-backs-open-justice-charter/
https://www.thejusticegap.com/open-justice-charter-launch-id-rather-wrongfully-convicted-new-orleans-new-malden/
https://www.thejusticegap.com/ojc/
I find it hard to be,ieve they haven’t heard of John Collins and innocence fraud
I think they are all in denial about innocence fraud.
But what better way of boosting weak or non existent claims of innocence than associating yourself with a successful brand?
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I think they are all in denial about innocence fraud.
But what better way of boosting weak or non existent claims of innocence than associating yourself with a successful brand?
A ‘brand’ the Brits on the whole don’t appear to be buying
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It sounds like SL did no research, or just sloppy research.
How embarrassing to write “the police carefully inspected his hands and found no markings”
The police only looked at his hands about four weeks later — which was pointless on their part as any bruises/scratches would have healed by then.
Ahh! And to write that Nevill had no evidence of having been in a struggle...I can’t even comment on that.🤦♀️
SL seems to have worked backwards.
1) Decided JB is innocent.
2) Started writing articles and publishing them
3) researched, but not very well.
He has changed his mind since the above 2003 article and now claims (on only his opinion) the injuries on NBs arms were "clearly" caused by Sheila's long fingernails despite what the pathologist said.
There are many more examples of his poor work, the AK1 rabbits blood nonsense is also something he readily believed at one time and he continues to fundamentally misunderstand the blood and DNA evidence, at one point in his book claiming it has been proven that it wasn't Sheila's blood - before backtracking slightly. It's laughable *%87
-
A ‘brand’ the Brits on the whole don’t appear to be buying
There is an answer to that, the US CJS is not prone to more errors they believe, it's because the UK is not willing to admit to how many mistakes they make so the wider public at large are blissfully unaware of the scale of the problem.
It never occurs to them that maybe the CCRC turn down cases because they have no merit, it's always because the CCRC have no will to fight the wicked establishment and each knock back strengthens that view.
-
The ‘innocence movement’ is incestuous
And why does it appear the JB ltd campaign & others have jumped on the bandwagon of certain individuals from the US?
APPEAL
@C4CrimAppeals
Our legal director Emily Bolton interviews #MakingAMurderer's Dean Strang about #OpenJusticeCharter for
@JusticeGap
http://thejusticegap.com/2017/02/unacceptably-haphazard-steven-averys-lawyers-support-open-justice-campaign/
https://mobile.twitter.com/C4CrimAppeals/status/827456653125623808
https://www.thejusticegap.com/unacceptably-haphazard-steven-averys-lawyers-support-open-justice-campaign/
I find it hard to believe they haven’t heard of John Collins and innocence fraud
Interestingly it claims here http://shackletonfoundation.org/?portfolio=emily-bolton Emily Bolton ‘established Innocence Project New Orleans (IPNO),
Hannah Quirk here https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/dr-hannah-quirk ‘spent six months on a research sabbatical at the Innocence Project New Orleans, before joining the Law School at the University of Manchester.
Hannah Quirk can be heard here https://ox.cloud.panopto.eu/Panopto/Pages/Embed.aspx?id=69d464e5-e28a-4400-b964-a9dd01201ea0 alongside Carolyn Hoyle
Last year Professor Carolyn Hoyle stated, re the Criminal Cases Review Commission,
“437 peoples lives that have been changed around by the commission, many people who would otherwise be in prison and are out and those people are left to rebuild their lives that is not easy as research by one of my doctoral students has shown but none the less they have the opportunity to do so”
https://ox.cloud.panopto.eu/Panopto/Pages/Embed.aspx?id=69d464e5-e28a-4400-b964-a9dd01201ea0
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There is an answer to that, the US CJS is not prone to more errors they believe, it's because the UK is not willing to admit to how many mistakes they make so the wider public at large are blissfully unaware of the scale of the problem.
Yep
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It never occurs to them that maybe the CCRC turn down cases because they have no merit, it's always because the CCRC have no will to fight the wicked establishment and each knock back strengthens that view.
Until the CCRC wake up and weed out innocence fraud they remain part of the problem
How much did the Gordon Park fiasco cost them?
Someone on twitter highlighted para 26 from todays judgement
“On 6 January 1998, following the written opinion of counsel, Mr J.A.Price QC, who concluded that there was no realistic prospect of conviction on the evidence then available, proceedings against the appellant were discontinued.
Maybe Sandra Lean can explain what that’s all about ?
It’s obvious Park was a psychopath not dissimilar to Bamber & Parks innocence fraud is self evident
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Good luck to #JeremyBamber and his legal team who are seeking permission for judicial review in a renewed oral application in Leeds Administrative Court tomorrow against the CPS refusal to disclose vital evidence in his case
#Justice
https://twitter.com/tru68/status/125582097816214323
Trudi Benjamin won’t find ‘an envelope floating down from the sky’ there is no vital evidence waiting to be disclosed - it’s been disclosed, she just hasn’t viewed Bamber’s case objectively - unless she’s purposefully perpetuating innocence fraud?
-
I've said it before but who really needs guilters?
Not all JB supporters are fools that instantly believe fake news but there is no getting away from the fact that many are.
I find the fact that JB ltd seems to deliberately appeal to conspiracy fantasists who refuse to check facts very telling.
Oh, I totally agree, CS!
Whilst many of them have convinced themselves he’s innocent, some of them get a thrill out of knowing he did indeed kill them, and they get excited by that. It sounds unbelievable, perverse and and sick, but some women find murderers a turn-on.
It’s beyond weird and they must have mental problems.
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Until the CCRC wake up and weed out innocence fraud they remain part of the problem
How much did the Gordon Park fiasco cost them?
Someone on twitter highlighted para 26 from todays judgement
“On 6 January 1998, following the written opinion of counsel, Mr J.A.Price QC, who concluded that there was no realistic prospect of conviction on the evidence then available, proceedings against the appellant were discontinued.
Maybe Sandra Lean can explain what that’s all about ?
It’s obvious Park was a psychopath not dissimilar to Bamber & Parks innocence fraud is self evident
Trudi Benjamin won’t find ‘an envelope floating down from the sky’ there is no vital evidence waiting to be disclosed - it’s been disclosed, she just hasn’t viewed Bamber’s case objectively - unless she’s purposefully perpetuating innocence fraud?
I can't comment on the Park case as I'm not up to speed but as far as the CCRC directly commenting on innocence fraud goes, I think that would be against their remit.
The scale of the innocence fraud they deal with can only be imagined by the large volume of cases they reject but the proof of that IF remains confidential. I suspect the CCRC would dearly love to answer their critics by publishing their statements of reasons.
As for TB et al, that is the million dollar question. Does she really believe NB made two phone calls for example or is it simply part of an attempt to present a false impression of an impressive case for the benefit of those not paying attention? Her own emotional investment and objectivity aside, she can hardly admit she has been peddling rubbish and the campaign has nothing, so whether she is in denial or not, there is some amount of deliberate fraud IMO.
I am a great believer that like attracts like and the CT is moulded in JBs image, so their dishonesty is his dishonesty which should no more be ignored than the fact he has changed the time of his calling the police from just after 3.10 to 3.36.
-
Michelle Diskin Bates Retweeted
Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
Why play dirty? When will EVERYTHING be disclosed in the Jeremy Bamber case so that we can try to get to the truth of his claim of innocence?
8:55 PM · May 1, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmpowerInnocent/status/1256311304551149568
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Apparently CAL has been given files that Bamber hasn't seen and he thinks he has a right to nitpick for typos to exploit no matter how irrelevant a fishing expedition it is.
No idea what CAL has been given or seen etc but was the reason she posted photos to her instagram account re the files because of the abuse and bullying she was subjected to?
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No idea what CAL has been given or seen etc but was the reason she posted photos to her instagram account re the files because of the abuse and bullying she was subjected to?
Undoubtedly yes. Some pillocks are still repeating the smears started by Jeremy Bamber.
Some are still claiming CALs only research was searching these forums (which would still be a far better book than SL)
ITV refused all offers of help from Tru and MDB too - they didn't want to look at the new evidence - because there was obviously a secret agenda to fool people into thinking he was guilty!
You couldn't make it up, but guess who can!
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Undoubtedly yes. Some pillocks are still repeating the smears started by Jeremy Bamber.
Some are still claiming CALs only research was searching these forums (which would still be a far better book than SL)
ITV refused all offers of help from Tru and MDB too - they didn't want to look at the new evidence - because there was obviously a secret agenda to fool people into thinking he was guilty!
You couldn't make it up, but guess who can!
Wouldn't you have thought they'd have used a much less sneaky way of trying to find out?..............or maybe a MORE sneaky way? Either way they cocked it up.
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No idea what CAL has been given or seen etc but was the reason she posted photos to her instagram account re the files because of the abuse and bullying she was subjected to?
Someone should suggest to him to trawl through his 4M documents he claims he’s received
He may have overlooked them
Will take a while, about 15 years, but he may come across them 😌
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Someone should suggest to him to trawl through his 4M documents he claims he’s received
He may have overlooked them
Will take a while, about 15 years, but he may come across them 😌
According to the headings on his brilliant campaign videos, it's already been proven that he couldn't have done it - so what does he want more evidence for? *%87
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As for TB et al, that is the million dollar question. Does she really believe NB made two phone calls for example or is it simply part of an attempt to present a false impression of an impressive case for the benefit of those not paying attention? Her own emotional investment and objectivity aside, she can hardly admit she has been peddling rubbish and the campaign has nothing, so whether she is in denial or not, there is some amount of deliberate fraud IMO.
I am a great believer that like attracts like and the CT is moulded in JBs image, so their dishonesty is his dishonesty which should no more be ignored than the fact he has changed the time of his calling the police from just after 3.10 to 3.36.
Trudi Benjamin isn’t doing this on her own - ‘journalists’ are willing to report their one sided bias stories for example
So doesn’t the same apply to his legal team ?
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Bamber’s dangerousness surpasses him
Carol Ann Lee is an obstacle who’s in his way - her research appears to have brought her to the conclusion he’s guilty
It’s clear she’s Bamber's new target
Are the prison monitoring his behaviour ? I suspect not
Does anyone know if Ms Lee has reported the abuse and bullying she’s been subjected to - to either the police or prison or both?
Bamber may not be ‘gagged’ from speaking with the media (https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199899/ldjudgmt/jd990708/obrien01.htm )
but his patterns of behaviour should be of concern to the prison authorities and all those who should be monitoring him and protecting the public
It’s the same pattern of behaviour he displayed after he murdered his family - This should not be ignored
Bamber’s dangerousness and exploitative and abusive nature should be in the forefront of the minds of all those who’s responsibility and focus should be on the assessment and management of the risk that prisoners like Bamber present to members of the public beyond the prison gates.
“Freedom of expression is, of course, intrinsically important: it is valued for its own sake. But it is well recognised that it is also instrumentally important. It serves a number of broad objectives. First, it promotes the self fulfilment of individuals in society. Secondly, in the famous words of Mr. Justice Holmes (echoing John Stuart Mill), "the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market.": Abraham v. United States 250 U.S. 616, at 630 (1919), per Holmes J. (dissent). Thirdly, freedom of speech is the lifeblood of democracy. The free flow of information and ideas informs political debate. It is a safety valve: people are more ready to accept decisions that go against them if they can in principle seek to influence them. It acts as a brake on the abuse of power by public officials. It facilitates the exposure of errors in the governance and administration of justice of the country: see Stone, Seidman, Sunstein and Tushnett, Constitutional Law, 3rd ed., (1996), 1078-1086. It is this last interest which is engaged in the present case. The prisoners argue that in their cases the criminal justice system has failed, and that they have been wrongly convicted. They seek with the assistance of journalists, who have the resources to do the necessary investigations, to make public the wrongs which they allegedly suffered.”
Bamber’s ‘freedom of expression’ does not entitle him to abuse and bully members of the public - directly or indirectly - overtly or covertly
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According to the headings on his brilliant campaign videos, it's already been proven that he couldn't have done it - so what does he want more evidence for? *%87
Good point, CS!
He and his ever changing campaign team have been saying they “NEW EVIDENCE” he’s innocent for almost 20 years — and they never produce anything &%%6
That’s why he’s trying to make out EP are “hiding” the evidence. He knows nothing exists; he knows they can’t produce things that don’t exist; so he’s trying to make out it’s a conspiracy.
He’s now banging on about CAL being given documents and photos that he himself hasn’t been given: I don’t believe that for a moment. He’s just wasting everyone’s time...
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As for TB et al, that is the million dollar question. Does she really believe NB made two phone calls for example or is it simply part of an attempt to present a false impression of an impressive case for the benefit of those not paying attention? Her own emotional investment and objectivity aside, she can hardly admit she has been peddling rubbish and the campaign has nothing, so whether she is in denial or not, there is some amount of deliberate fraud IMO.
I am a great believer that like attracts like and the CT is moulded in JBs image, so their dishonesty is his dishonesty which should no more be ignored than the fact he has changed the time of his calling the police from just after 3.10 to 3.36.
Bamber’s ‘dark tetrad’ personality traits shouldn’t be ignored either
‘four traits: narcissism, best thought of, again, as the drive to feel special; psychopathy, a pattern of remorseless lies and manipulation; Machiavellianism, a cold, chess-playing approach to life and love; and finally, sadism, a troubling tendency to delight in the suffering of others.
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As for TB et al, that is the million dollar question. Does she really believe NB made two phone calls for example or is it simply part of an attempt to present a false impression of an impressive case for the benefit of those not paying attention? Her own emotional investment and objectivity aside, she can hardly admit she has been peddling rubbish and the campaign has nothing, so whether she is in denial or not, there is some amount of deliberate fraud IMO.
I am a great believer that like attracts like and the CT is moulded in JBs image, so their dishonesty is his dishonesty which should no more be ignored than the fact he has changed the time of his calling the police from just after 3.10 to 3.36.
Why haven’t Trudi Benjamin and the CT put right their obvious errors on Bamber’s website?
Why purposely foment propaganda ?
How have they been able to morally disengage ?
Aren’t they concerned about the consequences of their actions ?
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence
Mark Newby a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, said: “Since proceedings were issued it came to our attention that the author of the book the ITV drama was based upon appears to have received material directly from the police.
“It cannot be right that an author has been given material that Mr Bamber’s defence team have not seen, particularly in light of the persistent refusal by the CPS to disclose specific material we have been asking for. It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice.”
Bamber, speaking from Wakefield prison, told the Guardian: “It is disgusting that a third party was provided with documents and sensitive photographs when Essex police and the CPS have been unwilling to hand over material to our own forensic experts to prove that two silencers were recovered from the scene.
“Despite court orders being in place for them to make full disclosure to us, which they deliberately chose to ignore, when Carol Ann Lee requested material she was given it without a second thought. Where is my justice?”
A spokesperson for Essex police said: “We are aware of the claim made by Jeremy Bamber and can confirm that this matter forms part of an ongoing judicial review. As this matter is therefore the subject of a forthcoming legal hearing it would not be appropriate for us to comment further.”
Simon Hattenstone who wrote the above article has recently stated,
”Jeremy Bamber's court hearing for disclosure of vital docs has been adjourned till May 29. Attached are some of the docs that were passed by Essex police officers to Carol Ann Lee, the author who contributed to the recent TV drama, but not disclosed to Bamber.”
&
“I'm not saying that these files will prove his innocence but that they shoud be disclosed so he has the opportunity to prove his innocence or show his conviction is unsafe”
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I can't comment on the Park case as I'm not up to speed but as far as the CCRC directly commenting on innocence fraud goes, I think that would be against their remit.
The scale of the innocence fraud they deal with can only be imagined by the large volume of cases they reject but the proof of that IF remains confidential. I suspect the CCRC would dearly love to answer their critics by publishing their statements of reasons.
What makes you sure the CCRC are familiar with innocence fraud? If they were or are - what’s the 10 year long review into the murder conviction of Gordon Park all about ?
Appreciate you saying you can’t comment on the Park case but ‘the large volume of cases they reject’ to which you refer may be grounded in some other type of deception or maybe deception isn’t involved at all - maybe it’s a misunderstanding on behalf of the applicant..
The CCRC have never been transparent re the varying reasons why they knock back applicants
This is an excerpt from their website:
“However we may decide that your case cannot be reviewed. That might happen because we think that your application does not raise any significant new points that might allow us to send your case for an appeal. If we think this is the case with your application, we will write to you to explain why and ask you to tell us about anything which you think might change our minds. We will give at least 28 days for you to get back to us and we will not make a final decision in your case until we have carefully considered what you had to say.
If your case goes to a Case Review Manager for a more detailed review, the decision about whether or not your case can be referred will be taken at the end of the investigation stage.
If the Case Review Manager believes that there is no prospect of the case being referred for appeal, they will ask a Commissioner to look at the case. The Commissioner can either make the decision not to refer, or if they consider it appropriate, they can direct that the case be referred to a decision making committee.
If the Case Review Manager believes that the case should be referred, or thinks that for other reasons that a decision making committee is needed, the decision will be made by a committee of at least three Commissioners.
In either case, if the decision of a single Commissioner, or a committee of three Commissioners, is that a case cannot be referred, we will if appropriate issue a provisional decision not to refer the case. This provisional decision will be explained in a Provisional Statement of Reasons and the applicant will be given a period of time in which to respond. A final decision will not be made until any response has been carefully considered.
In some cases where the Commission’s decision is not to refer, and where no purpose would be served by issuing a provisional decision to the applicant, we will send the applicant a final decision document explaining why it has not been possible to refer their case.
If a committee of Commissioners decides that there are grounds on which the case can be referred a final Statement of Reasons will be issued, explaining our reasons for this, and the case is sent to the Court of Appeal for a new appeal to be heard.
https://ccrc.gov.uk/making-application/how-it-works/
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What makes you sure the CCRC are familiar with innocence fraud? If they were or are - what’s the 10 year long review into the murder conviction of Gordon Park all about ?
Because they refer very few cases out of the total number of applications. I would imagine that many of them are reviewed and dismissed quickly and probably have the commissioners rolling their eyes at what some chancers will try, but we shall never know the details.
You make a number of very good points above, I shall answer them later
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Because they refer very few cases out of the total number of applications. I would imagine that many of them are reviewed and dismissed quickly
The CCRC’s referral figures have dropped in the past 5/6 years or so - suspect the number of applicants may have also dropped?
Probably best to provide the actual figures - if you have them? - re total number of applications received to total number of cases referred per year
Last year Professor Carolyn Hoyle stated, re the Criminal Cases Review Commission,]
https://ox.cloud.panopto.eu/Panopto/Pages/Embed.aspx?id=69d464e5-e28a-4400-b964-a9dd01201ea0
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Simon Hattenstone who wrote the above article has recently stated,
”Jeremy Bamber's court hearing for disclosure of vital docs has been adjourned till May 29. Attached are some of the docs that were passed by Essex police officers to Carol Ann Lee, the author who contributed to the recent TV drama, but not disclosed to Bamber.”
&
“I'm not saying that these files will prove his innocence but that they shoud be disclosed so he has the opportunity to prove his innocence or show his conviction is unsafe”
I discovered today by chance after speaking to a friend, that ALL unimportant court cases that were pending or arranged for a hearing prior to lockdown were all put back to May 29. There’s no guarantee any conference or hearing will take place on that day...it was just a date they hoped the lockdown would ease so as to get the trivial and less important cases rolling and out the way
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I discovered today by chance after speaking to a friend, that ALL unimportant court cases that were pending or arranged for a hearing prior to lockdown were all put back to May 29. There’s no guarantee any conference or hearing will take place on that day...it was just a date they hoped the lockdown would ease so as to get the trivial and less important cases rolling and out the way
8((()*/
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Simon Hattenstone who wrote the above article has recently stated,
”Jeremy Bamber's court hearing for disclosure of vital docs has been adjourned till May 29. Attached are some of the docs that were passed by Essex police officers to Carol Ann Lee, the author who contributed to the recent TV drama, but not disclosed to Bamber.”
&
“I'm not saying that these files will prove his innocence but that they shoud be disclosed so he has the opportunity to prove his innocence or show his conviction is unsafe”
Clearly they don't show his innocence or CAL would have reported on it in her book - they might even mke things worse for Bamber IF indeed they haven't previously been released. Somehow I doubt that.
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Clearly they don't show his innocence or CAL would have reported on it in her book - they might even mke things worse for Bamber IF indeed they haven't previously been released. Somehow I doubt that.
Simon Hattinstone displays the ‘echo chamber effect’ of his one sided reporting
And appears un-interested in the abuse and harassment CAL was subjected to by Bamber supporters
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Clearly they don't show his innocence or CAL would have reported on it in her book - they might even mke things worse for Bamber IF indeed they haven't previously been released. Somehow I doubt that.
Bamber told CAL that he had over 3 million docs and had nearly all of the 340,000 supposedly withheld under PII.
Convicted murderers are not allowed to simply imagine evidence exists and then demand to see it. He wants to listen to the recordings because he thinks he's going to hear Sheila's voice on there for example or he's going to hear Nevill calling the police. He might as well think that assassins beamed in from the starship enterprise, that evidence isn't there to disclose.
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I discovered today by chance after speaking to a friend, that ALL unimportant court cases that were pending or arranged for a hearing prior to lockdown were all put back to May 29. There’s no guarantee any conference or hearing will take place on that day...it was just a date they hoped the lockdown would ease so as to get the trivial and less important cases rolling and out the way
I have read somewhere that important cases are being prioritised with covid bound to affect listings, but I believe it was Bambers legals that asked for the adjournment as the crown turned up with a load more evidence that showed he is barking (up the wrong tree) and they weren't prepared
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Bamber told CAL that he had over 3 million docs and had nearly all of the 340,000 supposedly withheld under PII.
Convicted murderers are not allowed to simply imagine evidence exists and then demand to see it. He wants to listen to the recordings because he thinks he's going to hear Sheila's voice on there for example or he's going to hear Nevill calling the police. He might as well think that assassins beamed in from the starship enterprise, that evidence isn't there to disclose.
He told me that too.
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Aunt Agatha today http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3402.msg479207.html#msg479207
”I'm quite livid as I was hoping he'd be home by now
What a waste of time this CT are
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This article is by Tom Pyman who reported on Bamber’s BS here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8273361/Jeremy-Bambers-lawyers-demand-CPS-hand-withheld-papers-disclosed-author-ITV-drama.html
”Britain's worst rapist who was jailed for life after sex attacks on 195 men is moved to 'Monster Mansion' HMP Wakefield alongside infamous inmates John Worboys and Jeremy Bamber”
“After he was sent down, lawyers for the Crown Prosecution Service urged Attorney General Geoffrey Cox to look into whether Sinaga's sentence should be upped to a whole-life tariff.
“Mr Cox QC then announced he was sending his case to the Court Appeal, where judges could re-sentence him to ensure he is never released.
“Passing sentence, Judge Suzanne Goddard QC said a whole-life order had never been made before in a case other than one involving murder, but despite the 'vast scale' of offending making Sinaga's a borderline case, she would 'shrink back' from passing a whole-life term.
However, she added: 'In my judgment, you are a highly dangerous, cunning and deceitful individual who will never be safe to be released, but that is a matter for the Parole Board.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8277363/Britains-worst-rapist-moved-Monster-Mansion-HMP-Wakefield.html
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What do you know
Michelle Diskin Bates Retweeted
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
2h
In 1988 the Secretary of State, Mr Douglas Hurd, imposed a 'whole life tariff' without informing #JeremyBamber.
On 15th December 1994 Jeremy was eventually informed that his sentence had been upgraded by the government retrospectively.
https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jeremy-s-sentence… #WhiteHouseFarm
6:53 PM · May 3, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1257005301317939200
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What do you know
Michelle Diskin Bates Retweeted
JB Campaign LTD
@jbcampaignltd
2h
In 1988 the Secretary of State, Mr Douglas Hurd, imposed a 'whole life tariff' without informing #JeremyBamber.
On 15th December 1994 Jeremy was eventually informed that his sentence had been upgraded by the government retrospectively.
https://jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jeremy-s-sentence… #WhiteHouseFarm
6:53 PM · May 3, 2020·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1257005301317939200
What does MDB know is the question. @)(++(*
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This article is by Tom Pyman who reported on Bamber’s BS here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8273361/Jeremy-Bambers-lawyers-demand-CPS-hand-withheld-papers-disclosed-author-ITV-drama.html
”Britain's worst rapist who was jailed for life after sex attacks on 195 men is moved to 'Monster Mansion' HMP Wakefield alongside infamous inmates John Worboys and Jeremy Bamber”
“After he was sent down, lawyers for the Crown Prosecution Service urged Attorney General Geoffrey Cox to look into whether Sinaga's sentence should be upped to a whole-life tariff.
“Mr Cox QC then announced he was sending his case to the Court Appeal, where judges could re-sentence him to ensure he is never released.
“Passing sentence, Judge Suzanne Goddard QC said a whole-life order had never been made before in a case other than one involving murder, but despite the 'vast scale' of offending making Sinaga's a borderline case, she would 'shrink back' from passing a whole-life term.
However, she added: 'In my judgment, you are a highly dangerous, cunning and deceitful individual who will never be safe to be released, but that is a matter for the Parole Board.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8277363/Britains-worst-rapist-moved-Monster-Mansion-HMP-Wakefield.html
Do you think it’s a coincidence I posted the above at 6.28pm and the CT tweeted this https://mobile.twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1257005301317939200 at 6.53pm
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What does MDB know is the question. @)(++(*
Would like to hear Michelle Diskin Bates thoughts on innocence fraud
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I’ve seen several of his devout supporters say “Jeremy will be home soon”, including himself.
Where is his home, actually?😌
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Would like to hear Michelle Diskin Bates thoughts on innocence fraud
I'm not sure she has any thoughts of her own about anything.
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I’ve seen several of his devout supporters say “Jeremy will be home soon”, including himself.
Where is his home, actually?😌
WHF of course. All the relatives will be swapping places with Jem when the truth finally comes out. Probably by the end of the week because the evidence for JBs innocence is overwhelming. *%87
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What does MDB know is the question. @)(++(*
The psychopath was informed, or did he expect to be asked if he’d mind that they issued it? Did they have to seek Jeremy Bamber Esq permission before accepting it?
He has an office, apparently...so he says on Twitter. Where would his office be, exactly? Has he furloughed his staff during lockdown?
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The psychopath was informed, or did he expect to be asked if he’d mind that they issued it? Did they have to seek Jeremy Bamber Esq permission before accepting it?
He has an office, apparently...so he says on Twitter. Where would his office be, exactly? Has he furloughed his staff during lockdown?
I think you have misspelled orifice Ispy. His campaign is run from his orifice.
Unless he means Trudi's spare bedroom where she lights a candle on the shrine every day.
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I think you have misspelled orifice Ispy. His campaign is run from his orifice.
Unless he means Trudi's spare bedroom where she lights a candle on the shrine every day.
The newspapers ridiculed Trudi when she disgracefully went June and Nevill’s graveside to read out the weird letter Jp”Jem” had written. I wonder what her neighbours think when she trots down the street wearing her “Jeremy is Innocent” top?
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The newspapers ridiculed Trudi when she disgracefully went June and Nevill’s graveside to read out the weird letter Jp”Jem” had written. I wonder what her neighbours think when she trots down the street wearing her “Jeremy is Innocent” top?
They might think 'oh look, there's Trudi'.
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They might think 'oh look, there's Trudi'.
I wonder if Ispy's neighbours admire her jewellery when she passes? Or maybe they just don't care. @)(++(*
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I wonder if Ispy's neighbours admire her jewellery when she passes? Or maybe they just don't care. @)(++(*
So you don't think the graveside reading was distasteful?
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So you don't think the graveside reading was distasteful?
It's not something I would do but it doesn't surprise me because I think there's been a lot of strange people interested and involved in this case since day one.
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It's not something I would do but it doesn't surprise me because I think there's been a lot of strange people interested and involved in this case since day one.
It actually doesn't surprise me either - some supporters gave more neck and brass than you could countenance.
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I wonder if Ispy's neighbours admire her jewellery when she passes? Or maybe they just don't care. @)(++(*
It would be hard to see me, Gunit, when walking down my road as all the houses are set back from the road...no curtain-twitchers here
Besides, my neighbours have their own jewellery to admire, so aren’t interested in mine, just as I’m not interested in theirs
Do you study your neighbours jewellery, then, when you’re chatting over the garden fence having a chinwag while pegging out your smalls?😌
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Undoubtedly yes. Some pillocks are still repeating the smears started by Jeremy Bamber.
Some are still claiming CALs only research was searching these forums (which would still be a far better book than SL)
ITV refused all offers of help from Tru and MDB too - they didn't want to look at the new evidence - because there was obviously a secret agenda to fool people into thinking he was guilty!
You couldn't make it up, but guess who can!
How did Trudi Benjamin or Michelle Diskin Bates think they were going to help ITV re the drama series WHF ?
By telling them she was the only witness to have seen someone on live TV at the time - pacing back and forth in a bedroom window *&^^&
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How did Trudi Benjamin or Michelle Diskin Bates think they were going to help ITV re the drama series WHF ?
By telling them she was the only witness to have seen someone on live TV at the time - pacing back and forth in a bedroom window *&^^&
@)(++(*
I think they are either delusional or it was a deliberate ploy to pretend that there actually is new evidence that ITV willfully ignored, with the subtext being that ITV is a propaganda arm of the secret services that are hell bent on concealing "the truth"
I'm going with delusional and dishonest, but amusing all the same.
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How did Trudi Benjamin or Michelle Diskin Bates think they were going to help ITV re the drama series WHF ?
By telling them she was the only witness to have seen someone on live TV at the time - pacing back and forth in a bedroom window *&^^&
Bet she's gutted not to have had her iPhone with her at the time @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
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Bet she's gutted not to have had her iPhone with her at the time @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
@)(++(* @)(++(*
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@)(++(*
I think they are either delusional or it was a deliberate ploy to pretend that there actually is new evidence that ITV willfully ignored, with the subtext being that ITV is a propaganda arm of the secret services that are hell bent on concealing "the truth"
I'm going with delusional and dishonest, but amusing all the same.
Who’s Michelle Bates?
The plot thickens....😌
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@)(++(*
I think they are either delusional or it was a deliberate ploy to pretend that there actually is new evidence that ITV willfully ignored, with the subtext being that ITV is a propaganda arm of the secret services that are hell bent on concealing "the truth"
I'm going with delusional and dishonest, but amusing all the same.
They are delusional and dishonest
Why do they all refer to JM as a ‘scorned’ women when it’s clear she was in an abusive relationship
Why have the CT referred to Virginia Greaves but not mentioned her sister Anji
It’s obvious their understanding of the case is poor to say the least
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Who’s Michelle Bates?
The plot thickens....😌
Barry George's sister and fruitloop. Her endorsement is the kiss of death to anyone's claims of innocence and she endorses every claim, no matter how fraudulent. *%87
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They are delusional dishonest
Why do they all refer to JM as a ‘scorned’ women when it’s clear she was in an abusive relationship
Why have the CT referred to Virginia Greaves but not mentioned her sister Anji
It’s obvious their understanding of the case is poor to say the least
It seems to me that anyone that claims they are innocent is deified by these people. Every actor in the case becomes wicked except the self proclaimed hero of the story.
Why do they never mention Barry Georges rape conviction and try to paint him as just a harmless oddball? Is it because they really believe it?
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It seems to me that anyone that claims they are innocent is deified by these people. Every actor in the case becomes wicked except the self proclaimed hero of the story.
Why do they never mention Barry Georges rape conviction and try to paint him as just a harmless oddball? Is it because they really believe it?
It’s part and parcel of the innocent fraud thematics
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Barry George's sister and fruitloop. Her endorsement is the kiss of death to anyone's claims of innocence and she endorses every claim, no matter how fraudulent. *%87
8((()*/
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They are delusional and dishonest
Why do they all refer to JM as a ‘scorned’ women when it’s clear she was in an abusive relationship
Why have the CT referred to Virginia Greaves but not mentioned her sister Anji
It’s obvious their understanding of the case is poor to say the least
Mark Newby, Bamber’s solicitor didn’t want the ITV WHF series to go ahead because they were concerned it would,
“place a fictional narrative in the public domain at a time when we have a looming High Court Challenge against the CPS”
But more importantly we’re looking after that to get this case back before the Court of Appeal. Programmes such as this don’t just get aired and disappear they stay in the mind of the public and are available online’
What about ‘Crimes that shook Britain’ and Scott Lomax’s book ?
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Barry George's sister and fruitloop. Her endorsement is the kiss of death to anyone's claims of innocence and she endorses every claim, no matter how fraudulent. *%87
Michelle Diskin Bates Ribbon
@Michelle_Diskin
Replying to
@michael47478285
There Are None So Blind
As Those Who Will Not See
Pouting facePouting facePouting face
5:49 PM · May 4, 2020·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1257351669404360709
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The whole Bamber campaign reeks of dishonesty and pretence which his dim more gullible supporters refuse to see while the more intelligent ones must pass it off as irrelevant as to his character in 1985, as though persistent lying and throwing red herrings are only a recent feature.
Latest News 19.12.19
Statement regarding the White House Farm ITV drama.
“We first became aware of a planned ITV drama about Jeremy’s case in December 2017, and took immediate steps to offer our assistance by contacting Kim Varvell at Production Company ‘New Pictures’, Commissioning Editor Kevin Lygo at ITV and writer Chris Mrska. We were willing to provide access to brand new forensic reports, our team of scientists, the case material, fresh evidence, and Jeremy and his legal team. Our offers were ignored, and we believe therefore, that the drama can only be based on factually incorrect and very out of date material.
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/case
Bamber’s campaign is criminal
Wonder if those people named above were harassed and whether or not this behaviour was also added to Bamber’s prison security files?
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Bamber’s campaign is criminal
Wonder if those people named above were harassed and whether or not this behaviour was also added to Bamber’s prison security files?
The CT don’t appear to have even a basic understanding of the facts of the case
“Wednesday 4 September 1985 – On returning to Sheila’s apartment, Jeremy received a telephone call from another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk
Bamber wasn’t ‘seeing’ Virginia Greaves!
He was ‘seeing’ her sister Anji Greaves - their relationship started 2 days after the funerals
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The CT don’t appear to have even a basic understanding of the facts of the case
“Wednesday 4 September 1985 – On returning to Sheila’s apartment, Jeremy received a telephone call from another girl he’d been seeing called Virginia Greaves
https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk
Bamber wasn’t ‘seeing’ Virginia Greaves!
He was ‘seeing’ her sister Anji Greaves - their relationship started 2 days after the funerals
Was Anji Greaves aware Bamber had attended JM’s 21st Birthday party?
“Saturday the 31 August 1985 – According to Julie’s 8th of September 1985 witness statement, Jeremy went to her shared house as arranged, and she acted 'cold towards Jeremy when he arrived at the house'. Jeremy took her out for a meal at Blazers restaurant and explained that he wanted to talk to her about a holiday he had planned for her 21st birthday present. However, as Jeremy was now committed to the farm he would not be able to go and suggested that Julie take Liz.
Was Anji Greaves aware Bamber went to JM’s ‘shared house’ and that he ‘took her out for a meal at Blazers[/i]’ ?
On the 18th August 1985, according to Anji Greaves,
“He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they we’re finished.”
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Was Anji Greaves aware Bamber had attended JM’s 21st Birthday party?
“Saturday the 31 August 1985 – According to Julie’s 8th of September 1985 witness statement, Jeremy went to her shared house as arranged, and she acted 'cold towards Jeremy when he arrived at the house'. Jeremy took her out for a meal at Blazers restaurant and explained that he wanted to talk to her about a holiday he had planned for her 21st birthday present. However, as Jeremy was now committed to the farm he would not be able to go and suggested that Julie take Liz.
Was Anji Greaves aware Bamber went to JM’s ‘shared house’ and that he ‘took her out for a meal at Blazers[/i]’ ?
On the 18th August 1985, according to Anji Greaves,
“He told me he had been getting fed up with Julie and asked me how to tell her they we’re finished.”
Where are the answers to these two basic questions - surely after 35 + years someone knows ?
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Where are the answers to these two basic questions - surely after 35 + years someone knows ?
Jeremy Bamber certainly seemed to be trying to distance himself from Julie on 31st of August. Before entering Blazers restaurant she asked him if he still loved her and he said he didn't know. During the meal he told her he wasn't going on holiday with her and suggested she take her friend. He asked her to promise not to kill herself. [JM w/s 8/8/85]
Was that how Julie kept him as long as she did, by threating suicide if he left her?
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Jeremy Bamber certainly seemed to be trying to distance himself from Julie on 31st of August. Before entering Blazers restaurant she asked him if he still loved her and he said he didn't know. During the meal he told her he wasn't going on holiday with her and suggested she take her friend. He asked her to promise not to kill herself. [JM w/s 8/8/85]
Was that how Julie kept him as long as she did, by threating suicide if he left her?
What makes you think, in the first place, JM ever threatened Bamber in this way?
“He asked her to promise not to kill herself“
“Sunday 1 September 1985 – Liz’s statement says that Julie had called her in floods of tears wanting to meet up[5]. Liz arranged for Julie to come to her place of work where Julie said that Jeremy had arranged to see her on the previous Saturday but had not turned up. Eventually he’d arrived at Julie’s that evening and said that he 'didn’t want to see her anymore' and that he had only been using her for his ‘own ends’
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Jeremy Bamber certainly seemed to be trying to distance himself from Julie on 31st of August. Before entering Blazers restaurant she asked him if he still loved her and he said he didn't know. During the meal he told her he wasn't going on holiday with her and suggested she take her friend. He asked her to promise not to kill herself. [JM w/s 8/8/85]
Sounds and reads like Bamber was making fun of JM in a cruel way
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Where did the narrative originate that JM went to the police ‘with the hit man story’ ?
JM went to police with a whole lot more than this
The CT write here https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness
“The last week is an audio drama performed by professional actors. It reconstructs events leading up to Julie Mugford 'volunteering to go to the police' with the hit man story. Everything created comes from police statements but many events and actions sound ludicrous, make up your own mind and take a listen below.
“Julie Mugford was the girlfriend of Jeremy Bamber who testified against him in court, stating that he had told her he planned to kill his family for over a year, and that he’d hired a hit man to carry out the shootings. This page contains reference to the evidence that supports the dramatisation below.
JM was not the girlfriend of Bamber - Anji Greaves was!
What did Bamber tell Anji Greaves about ‘events’ ?
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Barry George's sister and fruitloop. Her endorsement is the kiss of death to anyone's claims of innocence and she endorses every claim, no matter how fraudulent. *%87
It’s very telling Barry George never got compensation for his supposed MOJ...
It’s possible he didn’t kill Jill Dando, but that firearm speck deep inside his pocket — which matched the gun that killed Jill — what’s the chances of THAT getting into his pocket? Hw he got off on just thta is astonishing...
Not forgetting he was found guilty of attempted rape years previously, two indecent assaults, he was another pathological liar and a Walter Mitty: he even changed his name several times to Lee Majors, Paul Gadd (vile Gary Glitter), one of the Iranian SAS men, Freddie Mercury’s cousin’s real name...and was obsessed with the BBC.
He was also a convicted stalker of women; beat up his wife who was a marriage of convenience; was violent; and suffered several Personality Disorders. He claims he’s an Idiot with an IQ of 75, but spa other psychiatrist tested him and said he was of average intelligence. Whatever, he was definitely abnormal.
Witnesses saw him near Jill’s house that day, and half an hour after she was shot dead he rushed into some kind of place that deals with people suffering disorders and actually told them to note down the time he’d gone in there...
Of course, he could be innocent, but the fact the courts refused any compensation is telling in my opinion...
If he did kill Jill it doesn’t make any odds in a way that he’s been let out — his life will always be rubbish.
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Sounds and reads like Bamber was making fun of JM in a cruel way
The cunning psycho was planting the seed in her head...
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It’s very telling Barry George never got compensation for his supposed MOJ...
It’s possible he didn’t kill Jill Dando, but that firearm speck deep inside his pocket — which matched the gun that killed Jill — what’s the chances of THAT getting into his pocket? Hw he got off on just thta is astonishing...
Not forgetting he was found guilty of attempted rape years previously, two indecent assaults, he was another pathological liar and a Walter Mitty: he even changed his name several times to Lee Majors, Paul Gadd (vile Gary Glitter), one of the Iranian SAS men, Freddie Mercury’s cousin’s real name...and was obsessed with the BBC.
He was also a convicted stalker of women; beat up his wife who was a marriage of convenience; was violent; and suffered several Personality Disorders. He claims he’s an Idiot with an IQ of 75, but spa other psychiatrist tested him and said he was of average intelligence. Whatever, he was definitely abnormal.
Witnesses saw him near Jill’s house that day, and half an hour after she was shot dead he rushed into some kind of place that deals with people suffering disorders and actually told them to note down the time he’d gone in there...
Of course, he could be innocent, but the fact the courts refused any compensation is telling in my opinion...
If he did kill Jill it doesn’t make any odds in a way that he’s been let out — his life will always be rubbish.
It’s also very telling how Michelle Diskin Bates never mentioned the suicide of David Dobbins in her book.
“Mr Dobbins befriended George in the mid-1980s when they lived in the Stanhope Gardens Hotel, a bed and breakfast hostel in Kensington, west London. At the time Mr Dobbins was 13. George had just been released from prison after a conviction for attempted rape.Mr Dobbins had told the trial that he knew George as Thomas Palmer, the name of an SAS soldier involved in the rescue of hostages from the Iranian embassy siege of 1980.
He told the jury that George owned an imitation Heckler and Koch MP5 machine gun, and a blank-firing handgun, as well as "a few knives".Mr Dobbins's family moved to another address in 1986, but George continued to see them. Mr Dobbins had recalled how he heard a noise outside the basement flat and opened the door to investigate. "I saw Mr Palmer. He pushed his way in with a handgun and he discharged a shot. It was pretty scary. It was like he was trying to frighten us."George was wearing a combat jacket, military belt and jeans, and put the gun into his belt after he fired it. The prosecution case relied on evidence that George, 41, was "obsessed" with guns and the military.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2001/aug/21/broadcasting.jilldando
Their uncle Michael Bourke mentions him here https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ltgorwROQfwC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=barry+george+friend+david&source=bl&ots=OsBc4JyV9C&sig=ACfU3U3Zwc4AU010U8bScVsb7HH181p8GA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwis8rjMn6npAhU-QkEAHVW0DhIQ6AEwC3oECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=barry%20george%20friend%20david&f=false
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Jeremy Bamber certainly seemed to be trying to distance himself from Julie on 31st of August. Before entering Blazers restaurant she asked him if he still loved her and he said he didn't know. During the meal he told her he wasn't going on holiday with her and suggested she take her friend. He asked her to promise not to kill herself. [JM w/s 8/8/85]
Thought Bamber had said he was going to take JM to the Bahamas for her twenty-first?
‘Julie cancelled the holiday she and Liz had planned after Jeremy said he was taking her to the Bahamas as a twenty-first birthday present. But Jeremy was far from dedicated to their relationship. He had telephoned Sue in Jersey, asking if she still loved him, and persued a Colchester barmaid named Anne, seven years his senior. Anne agreed to a couple of dates, during which Jeremy showed her his family’s farmland and Osea Road, telling her that he was very wealthy and intended to buy a Porsche someday.
Courtesy of Carol Ann Lee from the book ‘The murders at White House farm’
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=jeremy+bamber+chinese+trick+box&source=bl&ots=jQH-J5AeC1&sig=ACfU3U0BryXpogrDnkw5Ikx_1Yk1kH8qaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ6q_iy6vpAhWTilwKHc-SDNQQ6AEwAHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=jeremy%20bamber%20chinese%20trick%20box&f=false
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“While Bamber’s lawyers do not dispute that Caffell had two gunshot wounds by the time official police photographs were taken, they believe the failure to inform the jury of these statements prejudiced the case. One theory is that a gun went off accidentally in the chaos that followed after numerous police officers entered the farmhouse.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction
Suspect if the jury had seen the statements from all of Bamber’s other victims, i.e Virginia & Anji Greaves, Sue Ford, Anne etc, it would have been a unanimous verdict
The jury were never informed of ‘coercive control’
”A psychopath may target a victim with the intent of using them and causing harm, or they may initially experience genuine attraction. Even if they do, their inability to love or to form an attachment guarantees that things will end badly. Whatever their motivation, their goals are to manipulate, dominate and control, and they will end up devaluing and abusing their victim.
In a profound act of betrayal, he or she only pretends to love (even if they start out with genuine attraction, since psychopaths don’t have the ability to love) — and does a convincing job of it — in order to gain your love and trust, which is what makes carrying out their manipulative agenda possible. They gain power and control through manipulation and use their victim for whatever they desire without any remorse, while creating an ever-worsening emotional hell. Their grandiosity swells as they watch their victim try in vain to save the relationship they truly believed was the best one of their lives.
The predator gets bored and devalues and abuses the victim, and needs the thrill of someone new. The psychopath must act out this manipulative cycle repetitively and compulsively in order to experience feelings of exhilaration and contempt (contemptuous delight), which perpetuate his or her feeling of grandiosity, according to Dr. Reid Moloy, a respected psychopathy researcher. The psychopath often ends the relationship with a stunning and completely abnormal display of contempt, coldness or indifference. If he or she is using the relationship to provide an illusion of normalcy, they may stick around long-term. If the victim ends the relationship, the psychopath’s grandiosity will suffer and they may attempt to return. Often, they restore their grandiosity by moving on to someone new, without looking back.
http://psychopathsandlove.com/emotional-rape/.
Was Bamber’s case prejudiced because this evidence was never explored at his trial
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Barry George's sister and fruitloop. Her endorsement is the kiss of death to anyone's claims of innocence and she endorses every claim, no matter how fraudulent. *%87
Michelle Diskin Bates Retweeted
Joshua D Jones
@BlueCheezWhisky
God is the great Redeemer and can turn the worst situations for good.
But He is never the authour of sin.
That's our doing.
5:20 PM · May 9, 2020·Twitter for Android
https://mobile.twitter.com/BlueCheezWhisky/status/1259156352179621890
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“While Bamber’s lawyers do not dispute that Caffell had two gunshot wounds by the time official police photographs were taken, they believe the failure to inform the jury of these statements prejudiced the case. One theory is that a gun went off accidentally in the chaos that followed after numerous police officers entered the farmhouse.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction
Suspect if the jury had seen the statements from all of Bamber’s other victims, i.e Virginia & Anji Greaves, Sue Ford, Anne etc, it would have been a unanimous verdict
The jury were never informed of ‘coercive control’
Was Bamber’s case prejudiced because this evidence was never explored at his trial
That’s utter nonsense
Sheila was shot twice in the neck HOURS before being found
Dead people don’t bleed....both bullet holes in Sheila’s neck poured with blood
Ridiculous
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It seems the much talked about judicial review has already failed on the papers. I was foolish enough to gain the probably deliberately intended false impression that permission for the JR had already been granted and the hearing they were waiting for was the JR itself, not a renewal hearing.
Apparently CAL has been given files that Bamber hasn't seen and he thinks he has a right to nitpick for typos to exploit no matter how irrelevant a fishing expedition it is.
We shall see.
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Good luck to #JeremyBamber and his legal team who are seeking permission for judicial review in a renewed oral application in Leeds Administrative Court tomorrow against the CPS refusal to disclose vital evidence in his case
#Justice
https://twitter.com/tru68/status/125582097816214323
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence
Mark Newby a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, said: “Since proceedings were issued it came to our attention that the author of the book the ITV drama was based upon appears to have received material directly from the police.
“It cannot be right that an author has been given material that Mr Bamber’s defence team have not seen, particularly in light of the persistent refusal by the CPS to disclose specific material we have been asking for. It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice.”
Bamber, speaking from Wakefield prison, told the Guardian: “It is disgusting that a third party was provided with documents and sensitive photographs when Essex police and the CPS have been unwilling to hand over material to our own forensic experts to prove that two silencers were recovered from the scene.
“Despite court orders being in place for them to make full disclosure to us, which they deliberately chose to ignore, when Carol Ann Lee requested material she was given it without a second thought. Where is my justice?”
A spokesperson for Essex police said: “We are aware of the claim made by Jeremy Bamber and can confirm that this matter forms part of an ongoing judicial review. As this matter is therefore the subject of a forthcoming legal hearing it would not be appropriate for us to comment further.”
May 1, 2020
The Judicial Review of Jeremy Bamber was heard today Via Skype by the Honorourable Mr Justice Knowles and was on Jeremy Bamber's application adjourned
Press Statement
Jeremy Bamber continues to pursue his judicial review against the Director of Public Prosecutions over serious non disclosures and non-compliance with previous Court of Appeal orders .
The matter came before the Honorarable Mr Justice Knowles on 1st May 2020 . On the 30th April we received from the Crown a Skeleton Argument which raised a significant amount of material upon which fairness dictated that Jeremy Bamber should be able to comment upon
The Crown opposed the application to adjourn but it was granted .
Accordingly the matter has now been adjourned until 29th May and we expect to file a robust response to the Crown in advance of the hearing
At this stage no skeleton arguments will be released from the case but the Court will reconsider release once the amended skeleton argument has been filed .
Mark Newby, solicitor
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This is embarrassing
Mark Newby
“The jury only heard of the two shots, which was relied upon by the crown to support their case, but this wasn’t the whole picture. It represents yet another significant aspect to this case which supports Jeremy Bamber and undermines this conviction.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction
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Adjourned until 29th May
Simon Hattenstone
@shattenstone
Jeremy Bamber's court hearing for disclosure of vital docs has been adjourned till May 29. Attached are some of the docs that were passed by Essex police officers to Carol Ann Lee, the author who contributed to the recent TV drama, but not disclosed to Bamber.
https://mobile.twitter.com/shattenstone/status/1256170632670261248
Simon Hattenstone’s tweet included a screenshot of Carol Ann Lee’s instagram account
Found it interesting how he chose to ignore the bullying and abuse Carol Ann Lee received from Bamber supporters
Would Judge Knowles have been made aware of these facts ?
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This is embarrassing
Mark Newby
“The jury only heard of the two shots, which was relied upon by the crown to support their case, but this wasn’t the whole picture. It represents yet another significant aspect to this case which supports Jeremy Bamber and undermines this conviction.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction
Do the CPS & Essex police have a copy of Mike Tesko’s 6th Sept 2009 letter http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=212.msg573829#msg573829
Bamber telling Mike Tescowski in 2009 he liked “his arguments” re “Davidson’s message/note/pocket book entries”
“I have made them simple and included them in the bundle of docs sent to my lawyers. It’s confirmation that two bodies were found in the kitchen”
And are Mark Newby and Bamber’s CT aware the ‘two bodies’ in the kitchen BS was Mike Tesco’s idea NOT Bamber’s
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Do the CPS & Essex police have a copy of Mike Tesko’s 6th Sept 2009 letter http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=212.msg573829#msg573829
And are Mark Newby and Bamber’s CT aware the ‘two bodies’ in the kitchen BS was Mike Tesco’s idea NOT Bamber’s
Why does Bamber come out with such ludicrous lies that can so easily be disproved?
Is he stupid, do you think?
Or is he just desperate to clutch onto any weak straw in the hope someone in authority may become confused?
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Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Good luck to #JeremyBamber and his legal team who are seeking permission for judicial review in a renewed oral application in Leeds Administrative Court tomorrow against the CPS refusal to disclose vital evidence in his case
#Justice
https://twitter.com/tru68/status/125582097816214323
That account doesn’t exist
https://mobile.twitter.com/TruTruThinks/
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It seems the much talked about judicial review has already failed on the papers. I was foolish enough to gain the probably deliberately intended false impression that permission for the JR had already been granted and the hearing they were waiting for was the JR itself, not a renewal hearing.
Apparently CAL has been given files that Bamber hasn't seen and he thinks he has a right to nitpick for typos to exploit no matter how irrelevant a fishing expedition it is.
We shall see.
Tru Benjamin
@tru68
Good luck to #JeremyBamber and his legal team who are seeking permission for judicial review in a renewed oral application in Leeds Administrative Court tomorrow against the CPS refusal to disclose vital evidence in his case
#Justice
https://twitter.com/tru68/status/125582097816214323
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence
Mark Newby a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, said: “Since proceedings were issued it came to our attention that the author of the book the ITV drama was based upon appears to have received material directly from the police.
“It cannot be right that an author has been given material that Mr Bamber’s defence team have not seen, particularly in light of the persistent refusal by the CPS to disclose specific material we have been asking for. It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice.”
Bamber, speaking from Wakefield prison, told the Guardian: “It is disgusting that a third party was provided with documents and sensitive photographs when Essex police and the CPS have been unwilling to hand over material to our own forensic experts to prove that two silencers were recovered from the scene.
“Despite court orders being in place for them to make full disclosure to us, which they deliberately chose to ignore, when Carol Ann Lee requested material she was given it without a second thought. Where is my justice?”
A spokesperson for Essex police said: “We are aware of the claim made by Jeremy Bamber and can confirm that this matter forms part of an ongoing judicial review. As this matter is therefore the subject of a forthcoming legal hearing it would not be appropriate for us to comment further.”
“In July, the Ministry of Justice announced that a panel of experts, chaired by Lord Edward Faulks QC, would undertake an independent review of administrative law to ascertain whether there is a need to reform judicial review.
The review would deliver on a manifesto commitment to ensure that judicial review processes was ‘not open to abuse and delay’.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/government-inquiry-into-judicial-review-not-credible/
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Something a little bit new.
Murderer Jeremy Bamber, 59, launches High Court legal challenge over refusal by prison service to downgrade him from maximum security Category A status
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8831473/Killer-Jeremy-Bamber-legal-challenge-prison-service-refuses-maximum-security.html
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Something a little bit new.
Murderer Jeremy Bamber, 59, launches High Court legal challenge over refusal by prison service to downgrade him from maximum security Category A status
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8831473/Killer-Jeremy-Bamber-legal-challenge-prison-service-refuses-maximum-security.html
Who’s representing him - Dean Kingham and Matt Stanbury ?
Britain’s most notorious prisoner launches legal challenge to have parole hearing held in public
One of Britain’s most notorious prisoners has begun a legal action challenging the ban preventing parole hearings being held in public. Charles Salvador, previously known as Charles Bronson, has been in prison for most of the last 45 years and wants to waive his right to privacy and for his next parole hearing to be held in ‘the full public glare’.
Salvador’s legal team argues that the parole board rules’ blanket ban on public hearings is unlawful and, if successful, the challenge would force the government to change the regime. In particular, they argue that Parole Board Rules 2019, rule 15(3) requiring parole board hearings to be held in private offends the well-established principle of open justice as well as being in breach of the article six right to a fair and public hearing.
‘It is hoped that by providing Charles Salvador with the right to apply for a public parole hearing the public can gain a proper understanding of the parole process and it will push the secretary of state for justice to fully respect the independence of the Parole Board,’ comments his solicitor Dean Kingham of Swain and Co Solicitors.
The challenge is being brought by the same legal team, Dean Kingham together with barrister Matt Stanbury of Garden Court North, behind the recent challenge over concerns about the independence of the Criminal Cases Review Commission (the Gary Warner case – as reported on the Justice Gap here).
https://www.thejusticegap.com/britains-most-notorious-prisoner-launches-legal-challenge-to-have-parole-hearing-held-in-public/
Matt Stanbury & Mark Newby
”Current and future claimants will likely find that their prospects of success are not improved in any substantial way by this decision”
https://www.thejusticegap.com/not-innocent-enough-to-be-compensated/
dean kingham
@deankingham
A very good 2018 for the @SwainSolicitors prison law team. Highlights include cat a downgrades, convictions quashed, innocent people released by the Parole Board, accused individuals found not guilty. 2019 will be better. I have a feeling Bamber and Stone will have good years.
1:04 AM · Jan 1, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/deankingham/status/1079906216472653824
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“Mr Stanbury said an independent psychologist's report, commissioned by Bamber's solicitors, concluded he had met the test for downgrading a Category A prisoner - considered the most dangerous to the public - and that these conditions were "no longer necessary" for managing him”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-54512137
Wonder if the ‘independent’ psychologist is Ruth Tully or someone from Tully forensics?
Dean Kingham, Head of Prison Law, Public Law and Crime, Swain & Co. Parole Board Lead for the Association of Prison Lawyers (APL):
“Swain and Co specialise in dealing with prisoners stuck in the system, high profile, and complex cases. We instruct psychologists regularly and require forensic psychologists at the forefront of their profession. We have always found Tully Forensic Psychology to be leaders in the world of forensic psychology. The team is lead by Dr Ruth Tully, whom has developed psychological research applicable to prisoners and rehabilitation. The reports are of great assistance to us in arguing that prisoners should move through the system, progress to open conditions, or be released. The team often face very probing questions from The Parole Board and are able to explain and develop the evidence within their reports extremely well. We have found the assessments and reports to be key components in arguing clients’ applications to The Parole Board. They are leaders in the world of forensic psychology.”
https://tullyforensicpsychology.com/testimonials/
“On Monday 10th December, I attended the House of Commons at the Progressing Prisoners Maintaining Innocence (PPMI) Annual Lecture, ‘Is the Parole Process Fit for Purpose? Releasing Safe Individuals Promptly.’ This event was attended by guest speakers, Dean Kingham, Head of Prison and Public Law at Swain & Co, Ruth Tully, forensic psychologist from Tully Forensic Psychology and two ex-prisoners, Chris and Cookie.
It was a thought-provoking evening and it was great to meet so many passionate people who work helping those wrongly convicted, and as well many inspiring families who have been gravely affected by miscarriages of justice.
Dean Kingham was the first to answer the ever-important question, ‘Is the Parole Process Fit for Purpose?’ Dean was instructed by Mr Worboys in the Judicial Review, is in front of the parole board daily at oral hearings, and has been involved in many poignant cases in the past few years, namely The Queen (on the Application of Wakenshaw) v The Secretary of State for Justice, where the High Court made a declaration that the Justice Minister had interfered with the independence of the parole board. This is a clear example of how the Justice Minister has no respect for constitutional values that are deep rooted in this society, namely the doctrine of the separation of powers and Dicey’s Rule of Law.
Dean stated in reply to the question,
“It is not about whether the parole board is fit for purpose for those maintaining innocence, the question is whether the Secretary of State for Justice is fit for purpose.”
Dean exclaimed that although we are not where we would ideally like to be with the parole board and how it effects those who maintain innocence, improvements have been made and the parole system is better than it used to be, in that the likes of HORIZON and KAIZEN are now offered as offending behaviour courses, where one will not have to discuss the index offence. Ultimately however, the problems of the system seem to always fall back into the Justice Minister’s hands, and problems with parole are the same. When one is recommended for open conditions by the parole board, the Secretary of State inevitably has the final decision, which in a case we worked on recently was turned on us negatively.
Dean spoke at length about the troubles with progressing those who are category A, and the issues with the category A team in that they essentially penalise those who maintain innocence. Dean also discussed the major cuts on probation and the effect that this has had on the parole process itself, and moreover discussing that HMPPS in its entirety completely misunderstand maintaining innocence. Often it is naturally assumed that maintaining innocence equates to risk, but it has been evidenced that maintaining innocence is often a protective factor.
It was also mentioned that despite the slight dip in release rates post-Worboys, release rates have in fact gone up, and the number of oral hearing have rocketed, given the rulings in Osborn, Booth and Reilly. Only today did we at Swain and Co get a release decision for someone maintaining innocence.
On a final note, Dean mentioned the cost of keeping people incarcerated… £40,000-£60,000 per year, and £70,000 for those in the high secure estate. Thus, he detailed how necessary it was to progress those in prison to be able to have their risk managed in the community, and moreover the importance of progressing prisoners maintaining innocence.
Following on from Dean, Ruth Tully, a forensic psychologist of Tully Forensic Psychology, discussed the linked with psychology and progressing prisoners maintaining innocence. Ruth is an independent psychologist who often creates psychological reports of offenders who go in front of the parole board, at the instruction of solicitors representing them. An independent psychological assessment is an assessment by a psychologist who is independent of the system that detains them, and an assessment which is conducted by those who will present their truthful professional opinion of the offender.
Ruth depicted an often-common situation in which a prisoner may have had a very bad experience of prison psychology, and how that will often affect their engagement with psychology in general. Ruth clearly stated that the relationship between denial and increased risk is objectively unclear, and that denial doesn’t necessarily increase risk - the research is inconclusive overall. Ruth also spoke at length at about enabling a good rapport with offenders to be able to complete a full assessment of them, and this involves progressing those who maintain innocence, who often do not want to discuss the index offence they maintain they have never committed. Psychology often involves discussing the index offence, but an understanding of their stance and their view that they have never been involved in that, will improve the quality of report writing.
Offending behaviour courses are often ‘sold’ as being the only way to reduce risk in many prisons, however, Ruth discussed that offending behaviour work is not the only pathway to progression and thus a reduced risk of serious harm.
The event then heard from Chris, who was released 6 weeks ago after spending 20 years incarcerated for Joint Enterprise. The injustice of Joint Enterprise is well known, from the old case of Derek Bentley to the most recent case of Laura Mitchell and is brought to public knowledge and fought against daily by the wonderful grassroots campaign that is JENGbA.[/i]
Read more here: https://www.swainandco.com/prison-law/progressing-prisoners-maintaining-innocence-annual-lecture-10th-december-2018-at-the-house-of-commons/
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Something a little bit new.
Murderer Jeremy Bamber, 59, launches High Court legal challenge over refusal by prison service to downgrade him from maximum security Category A status
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8831473/Killer-Jeremy-Bamber-legal-challenge-prison-service-refuses-maximum-security.html
"He has a partner and support network" said Elaine Figgis.
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"He has a partner and support network" said Elaine Figgis.
Let’s guess....... Maria Perez?
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Let’s guess....... Maria Perez?
No need to guess Daisy
Maria Perez
@MariaPerez672
Fond of life and living for the moment. Promotes all causes. Lives with Barney and Smudge and is one very happy lady with Jeremy.
Though you’ve previously suggested:
This was written before I know Jeremy so pre 2011. Many of those who wrote testimonies are no longer in contact with Jeremy eg Tom Sturgeon and Maria Perez.
Also discarded Maria Perez, Jackie Preece, Tom, Mike Tesco and several academics including a good friend of Aunt Agathas.
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No need to guess Daisy
Maria Perez
@MariaPerez672
Fond of life and living for the moment. Promotes all causes. Lives with Barney and Smudge and is one very happy lady with Jeremy.
Though you’ve previously suggested:
Who knows now. I gather he changes his women like the weather.
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Who knows now. I gather he changes his women like the weather.
He most certainly abuses women and appears to play one off against the other
People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« on: April 07, 2012, 11:43:AM »
Jackiepreece states:
"Since the documentary by Mark Williams-Thomas there seems to have been some sort of smear campaign to discredit the documentary. Comments from Jeremy Bamber campaigners has ranged from the documentary being vile to the documentary changed their mind from innocent to guilty.
I have posted below one of those comments and I have also posted details that show Sunil Chandrum has close connections to the 'Official Jeremy Bamber Campaign'
Mark Cropper for one actually runs the campaign and Maria Perez has posted a testimonial for Jeremy
The thing I cannot get my head around is why would someone do something so harmful to Jeremy
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2509.msg77236.html#msg77236
@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why do you bother getting up in the morning only to spit out venom all day at other people?
06.01.2012
@jackiepreece Please I appeal to your better side to stop this anger at others and be a better person unite with all those who love Jeremy
Maria Perez (@MariaPerez672):
05/01/2012 08:06
@jackiepreece you cause trouble for Jeremy Bamber and @simonmckay by slagging both of them off don't lie Jackie
@[Name removed]oTew
@jackiepreece Why dont you shut your filthy mouth Jackie everyone knows you talk about @simonmckay like he's your best friend but insult him
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Let’s guess....... Maria Perez?
There’s an entire twitter thread here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2509.msg77246.html#msg77246
Maria Perez (@MariaPerez672):
> > 09/02/2012 11:17
>
> > @SunilChandran1 Missed ya, yes did you see Guardian? I will also pray for him also, thanks for wishing us well happiness awaits him at home
Sunil Chandran (@SunilChandran1):
> > 03/02/2012 22:21
> > @MariaPerez672 any update on Jeremy there's no news on what evidence my kindest to him, he is in my prayers you are a good and loyal woman
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There’s an entire thread here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2509.msg77246.html#msg77246
Maria Perez (@MariaPerez672):
> > 09/02/2012 11:17
>
> > @SunilChandran1 Missed ya, yes did you see Guardian? I will also pray for him also, thanks for wishing us well happiness awaits him at home
Sunil Chandran (@SunilChandran1):
> > 03/02/2012 22:21
> > @MariaPerez672 any update on Jeremy there's no news on what evidence my kindest to him, he is in my prayers you are a good and loyal woman
The ‘Sunil Chandran’ twitter account appears to have changed name to ‘Steve Bolsover’
https://mobile.twitter.com/stevebolsover/status/156814523616079872
> > Maria Perez (@MariaPerez672):
> > 16/12/2011 15:02
> > #TodayisFriday of to see my wonderful man tomorrow
> > https://twitter.com/MariaPerez672/status/147693069398065153
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Something a little bit new.
Murderer Jeremy Bamber, 59, launches High Court legal challenge over refusal by prison service to downgrade him from maximum security Category A status
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8831473/Killer-Jeremy-Bamber-legal-challenge-prison-service-refuses-maximum-security.html
According to Barry George’s sister Michelle Diskin Bates
‘Keeping Jeremy as a Cat A is a propaganda ploy. They did this with Barry’
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According to Barry George’s sister Michelle Diskin Bates
‘Keeping Jeremy as a Cat A is a propaganda ploy. They did this with Barry’
She just loves the attention.
-
She just loves the attention.
She ‘just loves’ to put out false narratives in the hope no one recognise Barry George’s case & campaign for what it truly was and is
-
I can completely understand why Diskin involved herself in her brother's fight for justice but involving herself in Jeremy Bambers is another matter. Could be she sees herself as some sort of saviour now but imo she's wrong. Bamber was a nasty piece of work back when he cold-bloodedly murdered his family and as far as I can see remains an extremely dangerous individual. No wonder he will not be paroled any time soon if ever.
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I can completely understand why Diskin involved herself in her brother's fight for justice but involving herself in Jeremy Bambers is another matter. Could be she sees herself as some sort of saviour now but imo she's wrong. Bamber was a nasty piece of work back when he cold-bloodedly murdered his family and as far as I can see remains an extremely dangerous individual. No wonder he will not be paroled any time soon if ever.
Her brother was hardly a saint before he was arrested for Jill Dando’s murder plus he’s still monitored under MAPPA by all accounts
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She just loves the attention.
She claims be ‘a little bit of an introvert’
https://www.facebook.com/malcolmdownpublishing/videos/359502305476925/
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She claims be ‘a little bit of an introvert’
https://www.facebook.com/malcolmdownpublishing/videos/359502305476925/
And apparently referring to Jill Dando
‘to this day nobody knows why she was killed’
They do Michelle - but you carry on pretending they don’t whilst your brother remains monitored under MAPPA
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She just loves the attention.
https://www.facebook.com/malcolmdownpublishing/videos/359502305476925/
She’s said twice now she’s ‘an introvert’
And ‘Barry can prove he was somewhere else’
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"He has a partner and support network" said Elaine Figgis.
What type of female would want to be associated with a ratbag who murdered babies? Seriously FFS.
So he uses up more public money to get down graded because he has managed to get a vulnerable woman suffering from some form of delusions (imo) impressionable lacky if you will, to be his 'partner' and he has a support network of fawning females who have no real take on life of their own.
No justice here.
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"Jeremy Bamber says he expects to be released soon"
Wishful thinking, methinks...
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18828403.jeremy-bamber-says-expects-released-soon/ (https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18828403.jeremy-bamber-says-expects-released-soon/)
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"Jeremy Bamber says he expects to be released soon"
Wishful thinking, methinks...
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18828403.jeremy-bamber-says-expects-released-soon/ (https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18828403.jeremy-bamber-says-expects-released-soon/)
This has become a yearly exercise.
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Downgrading D-Day has arrived...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/30/jeremy-bamber-high-court-judge-set-rule-white-house-farm-murderers/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/30/jeremy-bamber-high-court-judge-set-rule-white-house-farm-murderers/)
-
With a predictable result...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8896847/Murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-loses-bid-bring-legal-action-prison-service-refusal-downgrade-him.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8896847/Murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-loses-bid-bring-legal-action-prison-service-refusal-downgrade-him.html)
-
With a predictable result...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8896847/Murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-loses-bid-bring-legal-action-prison-service-refusal-downgrade-him.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8896847/Murderer-Jeremy-Bamber-loses-bid-bring-legal-action-prison-service-refusal-downgrade-him.html)
Oh dear what a pity never mind.
Anyway, only 3 more weeks and they'll be putting his sprouts on to boil! 8((()*/
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Not exactly unexpected that they won’t downgrade him.
He will never accept his guilt.
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Oh dear what a pity never mind.
Anyway, only 3 more weeks and they'll be putting his sprouts on to boil! 8((()*/
He probably got sick of playing poker with Bridger, Bellfield and Bronson in Wakefield, so just fancied a change of scenery.
Not a murmur from the Bamber Fan Club though... I wonder why?
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He probably got sick of playing poker with Bridger, Bellfield and Bronson in Wakefield, so just fancied a change of scenery.
Not a murmur from the Bamber Fan Club though... I wonder why?
I was completely underwhelmed by that result.
Fan club could be following this new ploy in protest 8**8:/:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-5128317/amp/Salon-workers-slap-failing-hit-targets.html
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"Jeremy Bamber says he expects to be released soon"
Wishful thinking, methinks...
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18828403.jeremy-bamber-says-expects-released-soon/ (https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/18828403.jeremy-bamber-says-expects-released-soon/)
Sunday, 25 October 2020
Anniversary: 34 years since the wrongful conviction of Jeremy Bamber
The Last Post?
As another anniversary of my conviction comes around, on the 28th October, I am pleased to say that the case has moved forward considerably over the last couple of years.
Up until then, knowing my innocence, I always had great hope that the judicial system would eventually have to accept that the case against me was just plain wrong.
Now, because of the huge strides that we have made in disproving every facet of the prosecution’s case, I now have, not hope, but a real expectation that we will shortly achieve a favourable resolution of my case, my innocence proven, and that I will finally be released.
We now have an overwhelming amount of evidence that not only undermines every single aspect of the prosecution case but proves that all of the major elements of that case were either deceptions or fabrications.
All of this exculpatory evidence will shortly be presented to the CCRC. We believe that within the corpus of submissions there are at least ten separate issues, each of which, on their own merit, should overturn my conviction.
Taken together, they make the case for my innocence utterly irrefutable.
In addition, the recent Channel 5 documentary, “White House Farm Murders: the New Evidence”, which featured some of the issues we have already released, showed that once the proper evidence is put before the public, they realise very quickly that a serious miscarriage of justice has taken place.
With all of these different threads coming together, I firmly expect that the freedom that was so unjustly taken from me will soon be restored.
In the meantime, thank you, as always, for your many letters and emails of support which have been so heart-warming to read during these uncertain times for everyone.
I am confident that I will be able to thank you all in person soon, and I am greatly looking forward to being able to do that.
Jeremy
-
Oh dear what a pity never mind.
Anyway, only 3 more weeks and they'll be putting his sprouts on to boil! 8((()*/
@)(++(* @)(++(*
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So here it is... the latest tedious and repetitive document on which Bamber needlessly wasted an inordinate amount of taxpayers' money. There's no way he's going to be promoted to a cat.B prison as long as he refuses to admit his guilt and partake in a rehabilitation program...
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2020/2842.html (https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2020/2842.html)
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So here it is... the latest tedious and repetitive document on which Bamber needlessly wasted an inordinate amount of taxpayers' money. There's no way he's going to be promoted to a cat.B prison as long as he refuses to admit his guilt and partake in a rehabilitation program...
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2020/2842.html (https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2020/2842.html)
Thank-you for relieving the tedium of watching Trump throwing his toys out of his pram!
It seems to me that prison life is just a microcosm of the wider world so on that basis alone, there is no reason for giving any prisoner access to anything without them fulfilling the criteria required by others, which is what JB seems to be asking. It seems his belief in his own entitlement has in no way diminished.
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Thank-you for relieving the tedium of watching Trump throwing his toys out of his pram!
It seems to me that prison life is just a microcosm of the wider world so on that basis alone, there is no reason for giving any prisoner access to anything without them fulfilling the criteria required by others, which is what JB seems to be asking. It seems his belief in his own entitlement has in no way diminished.
So you should if you believe yourself to be innocent.
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So you should if you believe yourself to be innocent.
Does he,or his he trying to convince others he thinks he is?
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So you should if you believe yourself to be innocent.
I'm not clear on how anyone who knows they're guilty can believe that they're innocent. However, I can see that they could claim to be.
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Maybe should have been charged with aiding and abetting the murders.
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Does he,or his he trying to convince others he thinks he is?
I don't know if he IS innocent, but I am convinced he believes he is.
Perhaps years and years of prison isolation, and too much time spent studying his own case has brainwashed him. Having never been in prison, I cannot imagine what a long sentence might do to someone-------even if the person is guilty and deserves it. If the person is innocent, it must be even worse.
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So here it is... the latest tedious and repetitive document on which Bamber needlessly wasted an inordinate amount of taxpayers' money. There's no way he's going to be promoted to a cat.B prison as long as he refuses to admit his guilt and partake in a rehabilitation program...
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2020/2842.html (https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2020/2842.html)
Thanks for that, Myster!
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Maybe should have been charged with aiding and abetting the murders.
But is there any evidence that he aided and abetted, rather than committed them?
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Hey has anyone else had an email from someone regarding a series they are planning to make about Jeremy?
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Hey has anyone else had an email from someone regarding a series they are planning to make about Jeremy?
I think we've had quite enough documentaries and drama about YKW, IMO, TYVM. Email from whom, BTW?
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I think we've had quite enough documentaries and drama about YKW, IMO, TYVM. Email from whom, BTW?
From Mindhouse.co.uk
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From Mindhouse.co.uk
Not seen anything planned or in production from Louis Theroux or his company...
https://www.google.com/search?q=mindhouse+production+company+jeremy+bamber&client=firefox-b-d&tbas=0&source=lnt&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwik4-K-vvjsAhWIi1wKHauzDbAQpwV6BAgBEBk&biw=1866&bih=1002 (https://www.google.com/search?q=mindhouse+production+company+jeremy+bamber&client=firefox-b-d&tbas=0&source=lnt&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwik4-K-vvjsAhWIi1wKHauzDbAQpwV6BAgBEBk&biw=1866&bih=1002)
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Maybe they are in the very early stages of planning it. I am sure I am not the only one who has been contacted.
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Maybe they are in the very early stages of planning it. I am sure I am not the only one who has been contacted.
Let them know how much money you wasted on him Daisy, only to receive a kick in the teeth.
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Maybe they are in the very early stages of planning it. I am sure I am not the only one who has been contacted.
I've heard about it.
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I've heard about it.
Why am I always last to hear anything?!!!
It reminds me of school days when I was never picked for the basketball team because I was only 2'3'' tall.
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Why am I always last to hear anything?!!!
It reminds me of school days when I was never picked for the basketball team because I was only 2'3'' tall.
I'm smaller than that @)(++(*
I will PM you later.
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“Sky has also announced a ocumentary about the case of Jeremy Bamber and the White House Farm Murders - The Bambers: Murder at the Farm - executive produced by Louis Theroux and Aaron Fellows.
Using first-hand testimony and unseen archive footage to re-examine the shocking events of 1985, the film explores evidence that has emerged since the original trial of Bamber.
Speaking about the project, Theroux said: "It's a big responsibility taking on a subject that's touched the lives of so many people in such a tragic way. But I'm confident we can make it much more than a true crime documentary.
"This is a story not only about the criminal justice system but about family and adoption, class and religion, mental health and the undeserved stigma around it." (Sic)
https://www.beyondthejoke.co.uk/content/10008/greg-davies-sitcom
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I'm really glad that this documentary has been made, it's well overdue that someone out there has made a documentary that actually properly analyses the evidence.
There are a few things that I would like it to do...
I hope that the documentary holds the Guardian newspaper to account for effectively running a 'free Bamber campaign' via its journalist Eric Allison.
The wet blood on the wounds of Sheila Caffells neck have been photoshopped in, probably around the time that Bamber was represented by fraudster Giovanni Di Stefano, which would have been early 2000's. I hope that will be revealed too. Carol Ann Lee confirmed this fact in an HBO podcast in October 2020.
Peter Suthersts woefully inadequate assessment of the scratches on the mantelshelf, which, in Peter Suthersts words proves 100 percent that he is innocent. Sutherst applied almost childlike photogrammetry techniques to assess whether the original photographs captured the scratches or not, but he isn't a photogrammetry expert (by his own admission) and his results were just gibberish. He would have been well aware of the errors in his results, and yet he determined from this gibberish that Bamber was innocent. Again, shame on the Guardian newspaper for promoting this nonsense.
The obvious stuff like the firearms log and the fake narrative that Bamber has wrapped that up in needs to be covered. And the so-called call logs which clearly show that only one call was made to any police station that night. Again, wrapped up in Bambers false narrative, promoted as the truth by the Guardian.
And maybe, just maybe, Sheila Caffell will be portrayed as a human being rather than just a schizophrenic and a corpse.
I've read that it will be out in the summer of this year.
It's just a shame it's on Sky. If it was on ITV over 3 days at 9 o'clock it would have much more impact. But it might change the attitudes of newspapers as to how this story is reported in the future.
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Will be interesting to see if they explore why Bamber really visited Charles Marsden on ‘the day following the murders’ & why Bamber wasn’t charged re the alleged drug/date rape of Sarah in 1984?
There are numerous prejudices running through Bamber’s innocence fraud narrative - not least of all misogyny which is apparent from the start
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I hope that the documentary holds the Guardian newspaper to account for effectively running a 'free Bamber campaign' via its journalist Eric Allison.
and Simon Hattenstone
Both of whom (Allison & Hattenstone) have also helped perpetuate wife killer Eddie Gilfoyle’s innocence fraud (As have The Times)
The Times
‘Daniel Finkelstein, compared the case of the Falklands veteran from Merseyside to that of Alfred Dreyfus, the Jewish artillery captain convicted of treason in 1894 in France.
‘Before joining the paper in 2001, he was adviser to both the prime minister John Major and the Conservative leader William Hague
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Nicholas, regarding any alleged drug/date rape. I'm afraid there's absolutely no evidence for it. Marsden's statement from what I've seen doesn't say anything about drugging or lack of consent. Only the "alleged" victim could really establish that and evidently she never came forward.
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Nicholas, regarding any alleged drug/date rape. I'm afraid there's absolutely no evidence for it. Marsden's statement from what I've seen doesn't say anything about drugging or lack of consent. Only the "alleged" victim could really establish that and evidently she never came forward.
Hi Truth SKR1 - Can you post a copy of Charles Marsden’s witness statement or point to where it can be read?
The following excerpts are Carol Ann Lee’s interpretation from her meticulously researched book ‘The Murders at White House Farm’ - which indicate the girl either ‘came forward’ at some point during the police investigations into the 5 murders (In 1985 as indicated by CAL) or possibly even earlier?
According to CAL
‘In addition to the odd dalliance with Sue Ford, Jeremy was unfaithful to Julie in the first half of 1984 with two other women. The first was Liz Rimmimgton, whose relationship with Malcolm Waters had come to an end. After spending the night with Jeremy, Liz felt ‘terribly guilty’, telling Essex police in 1985 that they were never ‘romantically involved’ and Julie knew nothing about it.
Jeremy’s second liaison was with another friend of Julie’s. He and Charles Marsden had spent an evening drinking with the girl at the Chequers. Returning to Bourtree cottage after the pub closed, Charles went to bed while Jeremy and the girl stayed downstairs drinking. She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’. Charles Marsden lay next to them; he recalled waking up to find the couple having sex but both he and the girl confirmed he had taken no part in what was going on.
The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged. Feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’ after hearing that Jeremy had told Julie about the episode, she called at the cottage while Jeremy was working. Julie recalled the girl describing a threesome and, when she confronted Jeremy, he told her that the girl was neurotic. Leaving Julie sobbing in the garden, he returned later and charged at the locked door, splintering it. Julie decided to believe him and broke off her friendship with the girl as he asked.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false
Carol Ann Lee writes - ‘She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’
The - ‘ON TOP OF ME HAVING INTERCOURSE’ - is quoted by CAL suggesting the wording has come from a statement by the girl
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Fair enough. Sounds fishy, but CAL writes suddenly and then quotes the "on top of me having intercourse". The full statement would be helpful but as it stands it doesn't stretch to an allegation of rape or drugging. I would presume the police would have been at least willing to proceed with it if she felt rape and/or drugging had occurred. Perhaps, she was fearful of taking that step, but even that is making presumptions.
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Fair enough. Sounds fishy, but CAL writes suddenly and then quotes the "on top of me having intercourse". The full statement would be helpful but as it stands it doesn't stretch to an allegation of rape or drugging. I would presume the police would have been at least willing to proceed with it if she felt rape and/or drugging had occurred. Perhaps, she was fearful of taking that step, but even that is making presumptions.
The words ‘SHOCKED, ANGRY AND ABUSED’ also appear to have been taken from Sarah’s witness statement
How do you interpret the word ‘abused’ ?
According to CAL
‘In addition to the odd dalliance with Sue Ford, Jeremy was unfaithful to Julie in the first half of 1984 with two other women. The first was Liz Rimmimgton, whose relationship with Malcolm Waters had come to an end. After spending the night with Jeremy, Liz felt ‘terribly guilty’, telling Essex police in 1985 that they were never ‘romantically involved’ and Julie knew nothing about it.
Jeremy’s second liaison was with another friend of Julie’s. He and Charles Marsden had spent an evening drinking with the girl at the Chequers. Returning to Bourtree cottage after the pub closed, Charles went to bed while Jeremy and the girl stayed downstairs drinking. She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’. Charles Marsden lay next to them; he recalled waking up to find the couple having sex but both he and the girl confirmed he had taken no part in what was going on.
The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged. Feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’ after hearing that Jeremy had told Julie about the episode, she called at the cottage while Jeremy was working. Julie recalled the girl describing a threesome and, when she confronted Jeremy, he told her that the girl was neurotic. Leaving Julie sobbing in the garden, he returned later and charged at the locked door, splintering it. Julie decided to believe him and broke off her friendship with the girl as he asked.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false
‘The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged’
What do you make of the above statement Truth SKR1 ?
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Nicholas, regarding any alleged drug/date rape. I'm afraid there's absolutely no evidence for it. Marsden's statement from what I've seen doesn't say anything about drugging or lack of consent. Only the "alleged" victim could really establish that and evidently she never came forward.
Carol Ann Lee writes - ‘She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’
The - ‘ON TOP OF ME HAVING INTERCOURSE’ - is quoted by CAL suggesting the wording has come from a statement by the girl
Or maybe the above wasn’t written or stated by Sarah but was the interpretation of the author?
By ‘author’ I meant police officer
Maybe the wording isn’t from a statement but from a police report ? It’s difficult to tell
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It certainly appears highly suspicious. And Julie's ending of her friendship with her and accepting Jeremy's explanation didn't help either in terms of helping a victim get justice. CAL would obviously know where she got the quotes from, a reference would be useful. They're not in any of Julie's statements as far as I've read, I presume Sarah was interviewed by police, has CAL read those statements and is paraphrasing and mixing with direct quotes from that?
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It certainly appears highly suspicious. And Julie's ending of her friendship with her and accepting Jeremy's explanation didn't help either in terms of helping a victim get justice. CAL would obviously know where she got the quotes from, a reference would be useful. They're not in any of Julie's statements as far as I've read, I presume Sarah was interviewed by police, has CAL read those statements and is paraphrasing and mixing with direct quotes from that?
Do you think Julie was to blame for not ‘helping a victim get Justice’ or are you suggesting something else?
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I'm suggesting merely that Julie's response to her may perhaps have further put her off going to the police. Were the three together during a conversation about the incident? I've no doubt Julie was under the control of Bamber and, unfortunately in this instance and others, sometimes no doubt unwittingly, she would back him up blindly.
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Truth SKR1 - What is described in the book is rape, without using the word rape. Non-consensual sex is rape, and that is what is described in the book.
Every quote is referenced in CAL's book, the references are there if you care to look. The story is a simple one. Buy the digital version of the book for just a few pounds and you will be able to check this.
In 1985 it's unlikely that the police would have had any energy or motivation to investigate the girls allegation. Even today in 2021 it is statistically almost impossible to get a conviction from a genuine rape allegation. The statistics were catastrophic then, and still are catastrophic now.
You can sign up for Amazon Audible and get 7 days for free and have the book read to you. Just cancel as soon as you subscribe, and your account will not be charged, but you will still get a week for free. Fill your boots.
Unless you think that women generally lie about being abused, or you think there is a massive global conspiracy against Bamber, then there is no reason to disbelieve the story.
No one is actually saying she was drugged, it's just that she lost consciousness and couldn't work out any other way of getting into that state.
But Jeremy Bamber has an extreme form of [ censored word]ocial personality disorder, and with someone of his personality type, anything is possible. His behaviour before the murders and his behaviour after the murders....behaviour which is factually proven, depicts someone with very clear [ censored word]ocial personality disorder, and he has a severe form of it.
And hopefully this new documentary, which is in 3 parts, will cover this. If Bamber knows about this new documentary, then he'll be stewing in his cell right now, steam pouring out of his ears....
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I'm suggesting merely that Julie's response to her may perhaps have further put her off going to the police. Were the three together during a conversation about the incident? I've no doubt Julie was under the control of Bamber and, unfortunately in this instance and others, sometimes no doubt unwittingly, she would back him up blindly.
Bamber became violent with Julie when she told him Sarah had called to see her
And the thing is none of us know Julie’s actual response towards Sarah - we can only go by what was written in her witness statement or by what it written by others eg: CAL stated in her book, ‘Julie decided to believe him and broke off her friendship with the girl as he asked’
Did Julie ever make contact with Sarah following Bamber’s trial do you know?
More on coercive control here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11873.msg638677#msg638677
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Truth SKR1 - What is described in the book is rape, without using the word rape. Non-consensual sex is rape, and that is what is described in the book.
Every quote is referenced in CAL's book, the references are there if you care to look. The story is a simple one. Buy the digital version of the book for just a few pounds and you will be able to check this.
In 1985 it's unlikely that the police would have had any energy or motivation to investigate the girls allegation. Even today in 2021 it is statistically almost impossible to get a conviction from a genuine rape allegation. The statistics were catastrophic then, and still are catastrophic now.
You can sign up for Amazon Audible and get 7 days for free and have the book read to you. Just cancel as soon as you subscribe, and your account will not be charged, but you will still get a week for free. Fill your boots.
Unless you think that women generally lie about being abused, or you think there is a massive global conspiracy against Bamber, then there is no reason to disbelieve the story.
No one is actually saying she was drugged, it's just that she lost consciousness and couldn't work out any other way of getting into that state.
But Jeremy Bamber has an extreme form of [ censored word]ocial personality disorder, and with someone of his personality type, anything is possible. His behaviour before the murders and his behaviour after the murders....behaviour which is factually proven, depicts someone with very clear [ censored word]ocial personality disorder, and he has a severe form of it.
And hopefully this new documentary, which is in 3 parts, will cover this. If Bamber knows about this new documentary, then he'll be stewing in his cell right now, steam pouring out of his ears....
‘What is described in the book is rape, without using the word rape’ - I agree colsville
Although ‘No one is actually saying she was drugged’ - Sarah did say she thought she’d been drugged
CAL writes, ‘The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged.’
According to CAL
‘In addition to the odd dalliance with Sue Ford, Jeremy was unfaithful to Julie in the first half of 1984 with two other women. The first was Liz Rimmimgton, whose relationship with Malcolm Waters had come to an end. After spending the night with Jeremy, Liz felt ‘terribly guilty’, telling Essex police in 1985 that they were never ‘romantically involved’ and Julie knew nothing about it.
Jeremy’s second liaison was with another friend of Julie’s. He and Charles Marsden had spent an evening drinking with the girl at the Chequers. Returning to Bourtree cottage after the pub closed, Charles went to bed while Jeremy and the girl stayed downstairs drinking. She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’. Charles Marsden lay next to them; he recalled waking up to find the couple having sex but both he and the girl confirmed he had taken no part in what was going on.
The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged. Feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’ after hearing that Jeremy had told Julie about the episode, she called at the cottage while Jeremy was working. Julie recalled the girl describing a threesome and, when she confronted Jeremy, he told her that the girl was neurotic. Leaving Julie sobbing in the garden, he returned later and charged at the locked door, splintering it. Julie decided to believe him and broke off her friendship with the girl as he asked.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false
I’m surprised CAL referred to this event as ’the odd dalliance’
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I'm suggesting merely that Julie's response to her may perhaps have further put her off going to the police. Were the three together during a conversation about the incident? I've no doubt Julie was under the control of Bamber and, unfortunately in this instance and others, sometimes no doubt unwittingly, she would back him up blindly.
No
It appears Sarah may have been warning Julie about Bamber - as well as confiding in her
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No
It appears Sarah may have been warning Julie about Bamber - as well as confiding in her
These were clues to Bamber’s real character which Julie doesn’t appear to have initially recognised at the time
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These were clues to Bamber’s real character which Julie doesn’t appear to have initially recognised at the time
There's a very good reason for that being the case. Julie could have previously experienced it so it would have felt familiar to her.
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There's a very good reason for that being the case. Julie could have previously experienced it so it would have felt familiar to her.
I don’t agree - it’s not necessarily the case ‘Julie could have previously experienced it so it would have felt familiar to her’ - Don’t you think it possible Bamber conditioned her? How many psychopaths had Julie previously been in a relationship with?
‘When we understand coercive control, it’s really about utter domination’ (Laura Richards)
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I don’t agree - it’s not necessarily the case ‘Julie could have previously experienced it so it would have felt familiar to her’ - Don’t you think it possible Bamber conditioned her? How many psychopaths had Julie previously been in a relationship with?
‘When we understand coercive control, it’s really about utter domination’ (Laura Richards)
I'm talking about a much earlier experience, here, Nicholas, and a narcissistic as opposed to a psychopathic. I'm going back to her roots. If I'm correct, she'd have been ripe for a 'successful' partnership with JB.
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I'm talking about a much earlier experience, here, Nicholas, and a narcissistic as opposed to a psychopathic. I'm going back to her roots. If I'm correct, she'd have been ripe for a 'successful' partnership with JB.
Psychopaths can dupe anyone April - even Robert Hare
And Julie was another of Bamber’s victims - regardless of her ‘roots’
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I don't know where you get the impression that I disbelieve Sarah's account. I don't, and I take your point that it was extremely difficult to get an accusation of rape taken seriously at that time. It's despicable that she "told detectives" all this and no charges were brought. Charles Marsden was questioned three times the week Bamber was initially brought into custody. I believe he stated he "woke up" to find them having intercourse on the bed beside him, and I take it he would've refuted the notion of a threesome. Did Charles Marsden testify at trial? Bearing in mind he had heard Bamber talking of killing his family you'd have thought he'd have been a useful corroborator of Julie's testimony. We still don't know if Sarah wanted to pursue the complaint or not, it would be sad to assume that the police intimated to her that she had no grounds to press charges.
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Did Charles Marsden testify at trial?
No he didn’t
So why did the prosecution and defence agree during pre trial hearings to not call him to give evidence ?
And what did Bamber and Marsden really talk about on the day following the murders?
Bearing in mind he had heard Bamber talking of killing his family you'd have thought he'd have been a useful corroborator of Julie's testimony.
Bamber obviously didn’t want Marsden to corroborate Julie’s evidence
So why did the prosecution agree to not call Marsden ?
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Doesn't make sense to me why prosecution wouldn't want to call him at trial. He had more valuable testimony to corroborate Julie about Jeremy's plan to kill his family than Robert Boutflour was able to offer.
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Doesn't make sense to me why prosecution wouldn't want to call him at trial. He had more valuable testimony to corroborate Julie about Jeremy's plan to kill his family than Robert Boutflour was able to offer.
Does anyone know what Bamber says about why his once ‘close friend’ wasn’t called to give evidence ?
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Psychopaths can dupe anyone April - even Robert Hare
And Julie was another of Bamber’s victims - regardless of her ‘roots’
I wouldn't seek to deny it, but had the conditioning already taken place, JB's 'job' in victimizing her, had been done for him.
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I don't know where you get the impression that I disbelieve Sarah's account. I don't, and I take your point that it was extremely difficult to get an accusation of rape taken seriously at that time. It's despicable that she "told detectives" all this and no charges were brought. Charles Marsden was questioned three times the week Bamber was initially brought into custody. I believe he stated he "woke up" to find them having intercourse on the bed beside him, and I take it he would've refuted the notion of a threesome. Did Charles Marsden testify at trial? Bearing in mind he had heard Bamber talking of killing his family you'd have thought he'd have been a useful corroborator of Julie's testimony. We still don't know if Sarah wanted to pursue the complaint or not, it would be sad to assume that the police intimated to her that she had no grounds to press charges.
This is Holly Goodhead’s interpretation regarding Bamber’s alleged drug/date rape of Sarah - Holly
The only women I've read about him bedding are Suzette Ford, JM, Anji Greaves (think he might have kept it in the family with her sister Virginia too?) and someone he met at The Chequers on a night out with Charles Marsden but its unclear whether he actually did the biz or not. Oh and I think JM's friend, Liz Rimmington, claimed he did the biz with her.
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I wouldn't seek to deny it, but had the conditioning already taken place, JB's 'job' in victimizing her, had been done for him.
Who knows April?
But it’s clear some people don’t recognise Bamber’s alleged drug/date rape of Sarah as a violent assault/crime
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I don't know where you get the impression that I disbelieve Sarah's account. I don't, and I take your point that it was extremely difficult to get an accusation of rape taken seriously at that time. It's despicable that she "told detectives" all this and no charges were brought. Charles Marsden was questioned three times the week Bamber was initially brought into custody. I believe he stated he "woke up" to find them having intercourse on the bed beside him, and I take it he would've refuted the notion of a threesome. Did Charles Marsden testify at trial? Bearing in mind he had heard Bamber talking of killing his family you'd have thought he'd have been a useful corroborator of Julie's testimony. We still don't know if Sarah wanted to pursue the complaint or not, it would be sad to assume that the police intimated to her that she had no grounds to press charges.
It may have come down to there being too much going on with the main case to worry about 'minor' potential cases, especially one, which might be viewed as nothing more than a menage a trois type party, following a complaint made by a female who 'was asking for everything she got'.
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I don't know where you get the impression that I disbelieve Sarah's account. I don't, and I take your point that it was extremely difficult to get an accusation of rape taken seriously at that time. It's despicable that she "told detectives" all this and no charges were brought. Charles Marsden was questioned three times the week Bamber was initially brought into custody. I believe he stated he "woke up" to find them having intercourse on the bed beside him, and I take it he would've refuted the notion of a threesome. Did Charles Marsden testify at trial? Bearing in mind he had heard Bamber talking of killing his family you'd have thought he'd have been a useful corroborator of Julie's testimony. We still don't know if Sarah wanted to pursue the complaint or not, it would be sad to assume that the police intimated to her that she had no grounds to press charges.
Would be interested to hear what the defence and prosecution discussed pre trial - if anything - regarding this
Rape and sexual assault are violent crimes
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It may have come down to there being too much going on with the main case to worry about 'minor' potential cases
But what Bamber allegedly did to Sarah demonstrates a patten of behaviour
”Pattern of Behavior means behavior by one party in an intimate relationship that is used to establish power and control over the other person in the relationship through fear and intimidation.
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It may have come down to there being too much going on with the main case to worry about 'minor' potential cases, especially one, which might be viewed as nothing more than a menage a trois type party,
Without doubt Bamber via his supporters has placed a false narrative into the public domain since the off
CAL’s research shows there was never any ‘ménage a trios type party’
Same applies to the ‘homephobia’ bs on Bamber’s innocence fraud site https://jeremybamber.org/the-inheritance-issue/
Excerpt:
Homophobia
Information on this web site was first uploaded to the internet in December 2011.
1980’s attitudes towards Homosexuality
The police appear to have been looking at Bamber’s ‘pattern of behaviours’
”Pattern of Behavior means behavior by one party in an intimate relationship that is used to establish power and control over the other person in the relationship through fear and intimidation.
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Without doubt Bamber via his supporters has placed a false narrative into the public domain since the off
CAL’s research shows there was never any ‘ménage a trios type party’
Ha! Not for a moment am I suggesting there was. I'm looking at it how I think it may have been seen though the eyes of a sexist police force in 1985.
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Ha! Not for a moment am I suggesting there was. I'm looking at it how I think it may have been seen though the eyes of a sexist police force in 1985.
Who from the police in this case are you suggesting were ‘sexist’?
And what about the misogynistic views of Bamber and his supporters over the years?
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Excerpt:
Homophobia
Information on this web site was first uploaded to the internet in December 2011.
1980’s attitudes towards Homosexuality
The police appear to have been looking at Bamber’s ‘pattern of behaviours’
”Pattern of Behavior means behavior by one party in an intimate relationship that is used to establish power and control over the other person in the relationship through fear and intimidation.
Bamber appears to have coercively controlled Brett Collins
‘Coercive control is a behavioural regime & strategic pattern of behaviour in a relationship & throughout relationships to dominate, exploit & entrap’ (Laura Richards - 2021)
‘He and Collins frequented the nightspots of Auckland, and he recalls Bamber being a Jekyll and Hyde character who didn't get on easily with his friends. Bamber got kicked out of one upmarket bar for being aggressive.
"When he got out of it he changed, he could be quite nasty.
"He upset a lot of my friends. They didn't want to know him. He'd be really forceful in his thoughts."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer
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Doesn't make sense to me why prosecution wouldn't want to call him at trial. He had more valuable testimony to corroborate Julie about Jeremy's plan to kill his family than Robert Boutflour was able to offer.
Journalist Roger Wilkes stated in his book ‘Blood Relations’
‘Marsden said that he had visited Jeremy at his cottage the previous Thursday night. Brett Collins had cooked them a chicken dinner and the three had then repaired to the Caribbean Cottage at Burnham for drinks. Jeremy had announced that he and Julie had split up the previous weekend. While he didn't give a specific reason, Marsden had the impression that Julie had disliked Brett Collins. In any case, Jeremy added, he now had a new girlfriend, Virginia Greaves, who used to go out with Mike Deckers of the Frog and Beans. Jeremy also told Charles Marsden that he and Brett were going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move to Sheila's flat in Maida Vale. Virginia would move in too, Jeremy added.
Who and what were Roger Wilkes sources for the above?
Didn’t Anji Greaves claim Bamber had proposed to her? Why then is Bamber claiming to Charles Marsden Virginia (Anji’s sister) would be moving in with him and Brett Collins?
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Journalist Roger Wilkes stated in his book ‘Blood Relations’
‘Marsden said that he had visited Jeremy at his cottage the previous Thursday night. Brett Collins had cooked them a chicken dinner and the three had then repaired to the Caribbean Cottage at Burnham for drinks. Jeremy had announced that he and Julie had split up the previous weekend. While he didn't give a specific reason, Marsden had the impression that Julie had disliked Brett Collins. In any case, Jeremy added, he now had a new girlfriend, Virginia Greaves, who used to go out with Mike Deckers of the Frog and Beans. Jeremy also told Charles Marsden that he and Brett were going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move to Sheila's flat in Maida Vale. Virginia would move in too, Jeremy added.
And what weekend was Bamber referring to when he claimed to Charles Marsden ‘Jeremy had announced that he and Julie had split up the previous weekend’
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Ha! Not for a moment am I suggesting there was. I'm looking at it how I think it may have been seen though the eyes of a sexist police force in 1985.
Do you think any of lawyers involved in Bamber’s case - from the beginning until now - had/have ‘sexist’ views April?
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Ha! Not for a moment am I suggesting there was. I'm looking at it how I think it may have been seen though the eyes of a sexist police force in 1985.
The police spoke to Sarah in 1985 - as per evidenced in CAL’s book
As a victim to such a violent act she may not have wanted to relive it and/or it may have been agreed upon by her and the police to let it sit on Bamber’s records (Because it’s clearly there)
But it’s possible Sarah’s evidence may have been relied on by the psychiatrist who assessed Bamber pre trial and diagnosed him as a psychopath
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Who from the police in this case are you suggesting were ‘sexist’?
And what about the misogynistic views of Bamber and his supporters over the years?
No one member of the force in particular. It was the mindset of the whole force, starting at the highest level, probably going back generations. These things are passed down through generations. Nevill himself, regarded as being "a sweetie" and "great fun", was probably guilty of the sort of (harmless) flirtation which was acceptable when he was in his 40s/50s, but frowned upon now.
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Do you think any of lawyers involved in Bamber’s case - from the beginning until now - had/have ‘sexist’ views April?
I think sexist views were endemic amongst those 'clubs' which tended to be of the 'boys' only variety.
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I think sexist views were endemic amongst those 'clubs' which tended to be of the 'boys' only variety.
‘Were’ or are and what about females with these views?
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‘Were’ or are and what about females with these views?
Interesting question. I'm going to put it this way. From what I observe, are less so now, than they previously were, BUT, I don't know what's going on under the surface. It's not impossible that, subconsciously, men crave the ideal mother/lover figure who'll fulfil their every need.
As for females? A modern, independent woman is unlikely to hold such views, BUT, there maybe something about being looked after, taken care of, having no responsibilities, which could seem preferable to living in a world is which she has to fight her way up the same ladder that men climb with unrestricted ease...............especially if she's already experienced being bought up in a family which has taught her that a woman's place is in the home, bringing up children.
These beliefs don't hit us like a sledgehammer when we reach adulthood. We'll have experienced them at work, all our lives. They don't change until they're challenged.
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Interesting question. I'm going to put it this way. From what I observe, are less so now, than they previously were, BUT, I don't know what's going on under the surface. It's not impossible that, subconsciously, men crave the ideal mother/lover figure who'll fulfil their every need.
As for females? A modern, independent woman is unlikely to hold such views, BUT, there maybe something about being looked after, taken care of, having no responsibilities, which could seem preferable to living in a world is which she has to fight her way up the same ladder that men climb with unrestricted ease...............especially if she's already experienced being bought up in a family which has taught her that a woman's place is in the home, bringing up children.
These beliefs don't hit us like a sledgehammer when we reach adulthood. We'll have experienced them at work, all our lives. They don't change until they're challenged.
The above appear to be your generally held views April - what about specifically in relation to the Bamber case
(see previous posts in thread)
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Here
No one member of the force in particular. It was the mindset of the whole force, starting at the highest level, probably going back generations. These things are passed down through generations. Nevill himself, regarded as being "a sweetie" and "great fun", was probably guilty of the sort of (harmless) flirtation which was acceptable when he was in his 40s/50s, but frowned upon now.
you were specific about Nevill
What makes you suggest he was ‘probably guilty of the sort of (harmless) flirtation which was acceptable when he was in his 40’s/50’s’ ?
Maybe he wasn’t
Maybe Nevill never behaved in the way you have suggested he may have done ?
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Here
you were specific about Nevill
What makes you suggest he was ‘probably guilty of the sort of (harmless) flirtation which was acceptable when he was in his 40’s/50’s’ ?
Maybe he wasn’t
Maybe Nevill never behaved in the way you have suggested he may have done ?
I guess it's only a matter of opinion either way, but it's the impression I've been given by four ladies who were part of his social circle and remember him fondly.
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So who from the police in this case are you suggesting were ‘sexist’ April ?
And what about the misogynistic views of Bamber and his supporters over the years?
Also - do you think any of the lawyers involved in Bamber’s case - from the beginning until now - had/have ‘sexist’ views?
What about the journalists who’ve written about the case?
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The police spoke to Sarah in 1985 - as per evidenced in CAL’s book
As a victim to such a violent act she may not have wanted to relive it and/or it may have been agreed upon by her and the police to let it sit on Bamber’s records (Because it’s clearly there)
But it’s possible Sarah’s evidence may have been relied on by the psychiatrist who assessed Bamber pre trial and diagnosed him as a psychopath
The psychiatrist who assessed Bamber pre trial would have had access to police case papers and would have made an assessment on Bamber ‘on the papers’ - as well as via direct interviews with him
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The police spoke to Sarah in 1985 - as per evidenced in CAL’s book
As a victim to such a violent act she may not have wanted to relive it and/or it may have been agreed upon by her and the police to let it sit on Bamber’s records (Because it’s clearly there)
But it’s possible Sarah’s evidence may have been relied on by the psychiatrist who assessed Bamber pre trial and diagnosed him as a psychopath
How and why has Bamber been able to keep the above out of the public domain until CAL”s book?
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How and why has Bamber been able to keep the above out of the public domain until CAL”s book?
Has it ever been Jeremy's prerogative to decide what gets into public domain? I'm hazarding a guess that either
A) Sarah's claims weren't taken seriously
B) Her claim was discussed at local level, the conclusion being there wasn't enough evidence to take it further
C) It was sent to the DPP who decided there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute
That it didn't become public knowledge in other ways, may, as you say, have been because Sarah had been traumatised. I feel certain some of the papers would have loved to have got their hands on such information.
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Has it ever been Jeremy's prerogative to decide what gets into public domain?
Yes
An example https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.msg2289#msg2289
Jeremy Bamber - March 2010
“I want to do a piece with the Sunday Times guy David Smith.
I would love for you to let him have access to certain documents.
Clearly he’ll need guiding and controlling to some extent - so it’s about showing him all the things we’ve/you’ve discovered over the past eight years”
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I'm hazarding a guess that either
A) Sarah's claims weren't taken seriously
B) Her claim was discussed at local level, the conclusion being there wasn't enough evidence to take it further
C) It was sent to the DPP who decided there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute
That it didn't become public knowledge in other ways, may, as you say, have been because Sarah had been traumatised. I feel certain some of the papers would have loved to have got their hands on such information.
I don’t agree
I’m of the view Sarah’s claims were taken seriously just as Julie’s were
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Yes
An example https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=211.msg2289#msg2289
Jeremy Bamber - March 2010
“I want to do a piece with the Sunday Times guy David Smith.
I would love for you to let him have access to certain documents.
Clearly he’ll need guiding and controlling to some extent - so it’s about showing him all the things we’ve/you’ve discovered over the past eight years”
Did this suggestion/request bear fruit, or is this an example of Grandiose Narcissism in action?
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Did this suggestion/request bear fruit, or is this an example of Grandiose Narcissism in action?
April you asked,
‘Has it ever been Jeremy's prerogative to decide what gets into public domain?’
I provided one example
Did this suggestion/request bear fruit, or is this an example of Grandiose Narcissism in action?
It didn’t shut down Bamber’s innocence fraud campaign
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I don’t agree
I’m of the view Sarah’s claims were taken seriously just as Julie’s were
But at some level they were dismissed. Might it have been believed that obtaining a murder conviction was more pressing than trying for a rape conviction to which a third party present may have viewed as consensual sex?
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April you asked,
‘Has it ever been Jeremy's prerogative to decide what gets into public domain?’
I provided one example
It didn’t shut down Bamber’s innocence fraud campaign
There are clearly those who believe he's innocent. I believe there to be some still beating the drum for him despite him having no further use of their friendship.
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Did this suggestion/request bear fruit, or is this an example of Grandiose Narcissism in action?
What were your views on Bamber’s guilt in 2010 April?
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I don’t agree
I’m of the view Sarah’s claims were taken seriously just as Julie’s were
Did the police trace Sarah following Julie’s disclosures and police interviews or did they already have this knowledge?
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What were your views on Bamber’s guilt in 2010 April?
Before joining a forum, dedicated to JB, in 2011, I think I veered between innocent and guilty. Within weeks of joining, thanks to the enthusiasm and determination of someone fighting his corner, I was convinced of his innocence, and was also convinced that, because of a wonderful 'find' which proved it beyond doubt, he'd be freed very soon. Perhaps it was when this information was withheld that doubts started. They grew and nagged, but the overriding thing was the alleged telephone call and his lack of reaction to it.
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How and why has Bamber been able to keep the above out of the public domain until CAL”s book?
Has it ever been Jeremy's prerogative to decide what gets into public domain? I'm hazarding a guess that either
Bamber and his supporters - the ones who’ve had access to his case files - will have known about this reference
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Bamber and his supporters - the ones who’ve had access to his case files - will have known about this reference
Presumably then, there's nothing in them which incriminates other parties?
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But at some level they were dismissed. Might it have been believed that obtaining a murder conviction was more pressing than trying for a rape conviction
Possibly
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But at some level they were dismissed. Might it have been believed that obtaining a murder conviction was more pressing than trying for a rape conviction to which a third party present may have viewed as consensual sex?
Interesting how you appear to think it’s down to a ‘third party’ to decide on whether or not the drug/date rape was consensual
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Before joining a forum, dedicated to JB, in 2011, I think I veered between innocent and guilty. Within weeks of joining, thanks to the enthusiasm and determination of someone fighting his corner, I was convinced of his innocence, and was also convinced that, because of a wonderful 'find' which proved it beyond doubt, he'd be freed very soon.
So then Bamber’s plan re David James Smith could be said to have bore fruit ?
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Bamber and his supporters - the ones who’ve had access to his case files - will have known about this reference
Presumably then, there's nothing in them which incriminates other parties?
How so?
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April - do you not find the alleged drug/date of Sarah incriminating and supportive evidence of Bamber’s violent pattern of behaviour?
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But at some level they were dismissed. Might it have been believed that obtaining a murder conviction was more pressing than trying for a rape conviction
Do you think a psychiatrist assessing Bamber pre trial would dismiss Sarah’s evidence ? I don’t
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Journalist Roger Wilkes stated in his book ‘Blood Relations’
‘Marsden said that he had visited Jeremy at his cottage the previous Thursday night. Brett Collins had cooked them a chicken dinner and the three had then repaired to the Caribbean Cottage at Burnham for drinks. Jeremy had announced that he and Julie had split up the previous weekend. While he didn't give a specific reason, Marsden had the impression that Julie had disliked Brett Collins. In any case, Jeremy added, he now had a new girlfriend, Virginia Greaves, who used to go out with Mike Deckers of the Frog and Beans. Jeremy also told Charles Marsden that he and Brett were going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move to Sheila's flat in Maida Vale. Virginia would move in too, Jeremy added.
What happened to Charles Marsden?
Going on Willes interpretation above it appears Marsden was duped by Bamber’s innocence fraud
What gave Marsden the impression Julie didn’t like Brett Collins and did Marsden’s views change once he’d become aware of the evidence heard throughout Bambers murder trial and following the guilty verdict?
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Journalist Roger Wilkes interpretation from ‘Blood relations’
‘’The detectives seemed anxious to probe Jeremy Bamber’s sexual habits and preferences. They learned from Charles Marsden that Jeremy possessed an animal magnetism for women. Marsden said that while he knew of only two serious girlfriends, Suzette Ford and Julie Mugford, Jeremy had had many one night stands.
‘The idea of three-in-a-bed sex excited the detectives curiosity still further
But Charles Marsden was at pains to insist he hadn’t taken part in the sex session. And when Jeremy returned from walking the girl home, Marsden had got up and driven himself home
*&^^&
How many people have fallen for this misogynistic bs?
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence
Mark Newby a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, said: “Since proceedings were issued it came to our attention that the author of the book the ITV drama was based upon appears to have received material directly from the police.
“It cannot be right that an author has been given material that Mr Bamber’s defence team have not seen, particularly in light of the persistent refusal by the CPS to disclose specific material we have been asking for. It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice.”
*&^^&
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I don’t agree with CAL here https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/ at around 28.00 Julie ‘knew’ that the murders he’d been talking about had happened that night
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I don’t agree with CAL here https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/ (https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/) at around 28.00 Julie ‘knew’ that the murders he’d been talking about had happened that night
There were three calls. The first at around 10pm on Tuesday when soon after returning home from the farm, Bamber forwarned Julie that "Tonight's the night" (or similar wording); the second sometime after 3am when Bamber said that there was trouble at the farm, so Julie told him to go back to bed because everything would be alright in the morning; the third after 6am from a call box in Tolleshunt D'Arcy when Bamber told her not to go to work because a police car would pick her up and bring her to his Goldhanger cottage. This last call is the one I think CAL was referring to, when after spending a sleepless night, the penny finally dropped and Julie realised that he'd carried out his plan.
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There were three calls. The first at around 10pm on Tuesday when soon after returning home from the farm, Bamber forwarned Julie that "Tonight's the night" (or similar wording); the second sometime after 3am when Bamber said that there was trouble at the farm, so Julie told him to go back to bed because everything would be alright in the morning; the third after 6am from a call box in Tolleshunt D'Arcy when Bamber told her not to go to work because a police car would pick her up and bring her to his Goldhanger cottage. This last call is the one I think CAL was referring to, when after spending a sleepless night, the penny finally dropped and Julie realised that he'd carried out his plan.
Thanks Myster - I’m not disputing the phone calls Bamber made to Julie though it’s still my view she wasn’t aware Bamber had ‘carried out his plan’ in the way you appear to be suggesting - or in the way CAL has suggested
You say Bamber ‘forwarned’ Julie - whilst I don’t disagree with hindsight - I don’t think she was aware of his plans to murder on the night
Plus she told police the ‘hitman story’
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I don’t agree with CAL here https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/ at around 28.00 Julie ‘knew’ that the murders he’d been talking about had happened that night
With some hindsight and time away from Bamber Julie ‘knew’ - but not at the time of the phone calls
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There were three calls. The first at around 10pm on Tuesday when soon after returning home from the farm, Bamber forwarned Julie that "Tonight's the night" (or similar wording); the second sometime after 3am when Bamber said that there was trouble at the farm, so Julie told him to go back to bed because everything would be alright in the morning; the third after 6am from a call box in Tolleshunt D'Arcy when Bamber told her not to go to work because a police car would pick her up and bring her to his Goldhanger cottage. This last call is the one I think CAL was referring to, when after spending a sleepless night, the penny finally dropped and Julie realised that he'd carried out his plan.
If Julie ‘realised’ at that moment Bamber had carried out his plan - I think she’d have confided in one of her flat mates and wouldn’t have gone to Goldhanger
Am of the view Julie’s ‘realisation’ is not as clear cut as some observers seem to think
Bamber had already eroded Julie’s reality by the time of ‘the three calls’ https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2017/11/50-shades-of-gaslighting-the-disturbing-signs-an-abuser-is-twisting-your-reality/
If Julie had interpreted Bamber’s ’tonight’s the night’ comment as meaning he planned to kill his family - why would she tell him during the next call to ‘go back to bed’?
By this stage of their relationship - as the linked article ‘50 shades of gaslighting’ suggests - I doubt Julie was able to ‘trust herself or her instincts’
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I don’t agree with CAL here https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/ at around 28.00 Julie ‘knew’ that the murders he’d been talking about had happened that night
CAL also says in this interview it was a ‘couple of days’ later when Bamber had Crispy put down.
It was the following day - the 8th August 1985 when he chose to do this
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Journalist Roger Wilkes interpretation from ‘Blood relations’
‘’The detectives seemed anxious to probe Jeremy Bamber’s sexual habits and preferences. They learned from Charles Marsden that Jeremy possessed an animal magnetism for women. Marsden said that while he knew of only two serious girlfriends, Suzette Ford and Julie Mugford, Jeremy had had many one night stands.
‘The idea of three-in-a-bed sex excited the detectives curiosity still further
But Charles Marsden was at pains to insist he hadn’t taken part in the sex session. And when Jeremy returned from walking the girl home, Marsden had got up and driven himself home
*&^^&
How many people have fallen for this misogynistic bs?
I’ve not read either versions of Roger Wilkes book ‘Blood Relations’ but did read the ‘preamble’ here
For those who haven't read Roger Wilkes' original book... some preamble and parts of the first two chapters of the republished edition here...
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RSbCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT7&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RSbCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT7&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)
I’d like to know how and why Roger Wilkes interpreted Bamber’s alleged violent act of drug/date rape of Sarah - as a ‘sex session’ and whether or not he’s read Carol Ann Lee’s book on the case and reflected on the contents of his own book?
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/30/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-seek-review-of-cps-refusal-to-disclose-evidence
Mark Newby a solicitor advocate at Quality Solicitors Jordans, which represents Bamber, said: “Since proceedings were issued it came to our attention that the author of the book the ITV drama was based upon appears to have received material directly from the police.
“It cannot be right that an author has been given material that Mr Bamber’s defence team have not seen, particularly in light of the persistent refusal by the CPS to disclose specific material we have been asking for. It raises the question of whether a work of fiction is more important than justice.”
Bamber, speaking from Wakefield prison, told the Guardian: “It is disgusting that a third party was provided with documents and sensitive photographs when Essex police and the CPS have been unwilling to hand over material to our own forensic experts to prove that two silencers were recovered from the scene.
“Despite court orders being in place for them to make full disclosure to us, which they deliberately chose to ignore, when Carol Ann Lee requested material she was given it without a second thought. Where is my justice?”
A spokesperson for Essex police said: “We are aware of the claim made by Jeremy Bamber and can confirm that this matter forms part of an ongoing judicial review. As this matter is therefore the subject of a forthcoming legal hearing it would not be appropriate for us to comment further.”
Bamber was clearly angered by the contents of Carol Ann Lee’s book
I suspect it was because more facts about him, his crimes and his ‘pattern of behaviour’ were brought to light by her
‘It is disgusting that a third party was provided with documents and sensitive photographs’ - Yet Bamber had no qualms handing out ‘documents and sensitive photographs’ to convicted fraudster Mike Teskowski
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CAL also says in this interview it was a ‘couple of days’ later when Bamber had Crispy put down.
It was the following day - the 8th August 1985 when he chose to do this
The same day he coerced Julie into identifying the bodies
What do Julie’s witness statements say about Crispy?
And what do they say about Bamber going for a chat and a pint with Charles Marsden ?
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The police spoke to Sarah in 1985 - as per evidenced in CAL’s book
As a victim to such a violent act she may not have wanted to relive it and/or it may have been agreed upon by her and the police to let it sit on Bamber’s records (Because it’s clearly there)
But it’s possible Sarah’s evidence may have been relied on by the psychiatrist who assessed Bamber pre trial and diagnosed him as a psychopath
“If I see her I will go for her!”
When Julie told Jeremy what Sarah had said, he got angry and said “If I see her I will go for her!” That’s scary isn’t it? it definitely shows how he loses his temper and how he’d attack a woman who “got in his way”...
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Has it ever been Jeremy's prerogative to decide what gets into public domain? I'm hazarding a guess that either
A) Sarah's claims weren't taken seriously
B) Her claim was discussed at local level, the conclusion being there wasn't enough evidence to take it further
C) It was sent to the DPP who decided there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute
That it didn't become public knowledge in other ways, may, as you say, have been because Sarah had been traumatised. I feel certain some of the papers would have loved to have got their hands on such information.
This ‘information’ re Sarah was placed in the public domain by Carol Ann Lee in 2020
But Bamber’s false narrative of events has been perpetuated for over 3 decades - so it’s possible there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance to wade through?
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The same day he coerced Julie into identifying the bodies
What do Julie’s witness statements say about Crispy?
And what do they say about Bamber going for a chat and a pint with Charles Marsden ?
Ten days later - by the 18th August 1985 Bamber had started seeing Angela Greave’s
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I don’t agree with CAL here https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/ at around 28.00 Julie ‘knew’ that the murders he’d been talking about had happened that night
‘She said he looked worried and she felt sorry for him’
If Julie ‘knew’ Bamber had murdered his family on the night - I doubt she’d have been feeling sorry for him here..
Sheila's Flat - Maida Vale - Wed 4 Sept 1985
According to Julie Mugford, she telephoned Bamber at Sheila's flat in Maida Vale on Tuesday 3 September 1985. She called round the following day. She said it appeared that he was staying at the flat with a friend, Richard Deckers. She arrived at the flat at 2.50pm and sat waiting in the doorway. He arrived with Brett at about 3.40pm, he got out of the car before Brett and came over and gave her a hug. She asked to see him alone and we walked to a cafe across the road.
In the cafe she asked about their relationship. Bamber said he had been sold out and was it a matter of continuing the relation ship or her going to the police. Bamber said that he didn't want to continue the relationship and wanted his freedom. Brett arrived at the cafe and discussed some business with Jeremy. Julie states that they she then suggested moving some of her belongings to her new address before all three again left for Sheila's flat.
At the flat Brett attended to a man who had just arrived. The phone rang and Jeremy answered it. Julie says that he seemed speak in an overly friendly manner to the caller so she asked him who it was and he replied Virginia. Virginia was previously acquainted with both Jeremy and Richard Decker. Julie states that she terminated the call before the phone rang again, it was Virginia. Julie was angry with Jeremy as he had asked out another woman. She states that she walked out of the room into a bedroom where she picked up a Chinese box and threw it against a mirror, smashing it. With that Jeremy came into the room with the phone before ending the call.
Jeremy asked why she had did it and she told him that it was cruel to ask out another woman while she was there, Bamber became really cross and Julie had slapped his face. Julie recalls that he grabbed her right arm and pushed it up her back and shoved her onto the bed and made to strike her. Julies states that she goaded him daring him to hit her. She said she told him that she would go straight to Essex Police and they would listen to her. Bamber said that the case was so watertight that they would never listen to her.
Bamber let go of her and lay on the bed very quiet. Julie said she asked him to speak to her and why he was so quiet. She said he looked worried and she felt sorry for him. They started talking again normally and she told him that he could trust her and that she wouldn't say anything. Jeremy eventually gave her a lift home to her flat.
Brett Collins was a friend whom Bamber had met while in New Zealand.
Julie Mugford witness statement page 27 (http://i.imgur.com/kznbl.jpg)
Julie Mugford witness statement page 28 (http://i.imgur.com/BobIW.jpg)
Julie Mugford witness statement page 29 (http://i.imgur.com/CyGt3.jpg)
Julie Mugford witness statement page 30 (http://i.imgur.com/BuL28.jpg)
Julie Mugford witness statement page 31 (http://i.imgur.com/Q8iEr.jpg)
Julie Mugford witness statement page 32 (http://i.imgur.com/sVQS2.jpg)
‘Coercive control is a behavioural regime & strategic pattern of behaviour in a relationship & throughout relationships to dominate, exploit & entrap’ (Laura Richards - 2021)
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There were three calls. The first at around 10pm on Tuesday when soon after returning home from the farm, Bamber forwarned Julie that "Tonight's the night" (or similar wording); the second sometime after 3am when Bamber said that there was trouble at the farm, so Julie told him to go back to bed because everything would be alright in the morning; the third after 6am from a call box in Tolleshunt D'Arcy when Bamber told her not to go to work because a police car would pick her up and bring her to his Goldhanger cottage. This last call is the one I think CAL was referring to, when after spending a sleepless night, the penny finally dropped and Julie realised that he'd carried out his plan.
Anything on the "fantastic news by the end of January" yet, Myster? Is he through to the quarter finals of the Wakefield Tiddlywinks Tournament? Is he Sausage in The Masked Singer?
Wagwan???
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If Julie ‘realised’ at that moment Bamber had carried out his plan - I think she’d have confided in one of her flat mates and wouldn’t have gone to Goldhanger
Am of the view Julie’s ‘realisation’ is not as clear cut as some observers seem to think
Bamber had already eroded Julie’s reality by the time of ‘the three calls’ https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2017/11/50-shades-of-gaslighting-the-disturbing-signs-an-abuser-is-twisting-your-reality/
If Julie had interpreted Bamber’s ’tonight’s the night’ comment as meaning he planned to kill his family - why would she tell him during the next call to ‘go back to bed’?
By this stage of their relationship - as the linked article ‘50 shades of gaslighting’ suggests - I doubt Julie was able to ‘trust herself or her instincts’
Julie on Bamber
‘She said that he “sounded disjointed and worried” and he said “There’s something wrong at home.” She had been sleepy and had not asked what it was.
‘On 7 September, Julie contacted the police and told them that she had omitted matters from her earlier statement. She then gave a very different account that she was to repeat to the jury in evidence. She said that after she met Jeremy, it quickly became obvious to her that he disliked his family. He resented his parents whom he claimed, “tried to run his life" and he said he did not get on with Sheila. He was angry that she lived in an expensive flat in Maida Vale, which was maintained by his parents. Between July and October 1984, he said that his parents were getting him down and he said that he wished “he could get rid of them all”. In evidence Julie said this included his sister and children because “if he was going to get rid of them it would have to be all of them”. Bamber explained to her that his “father was getting old, his mother was mad … Sheila was mad as well … and in respect of the way the twins had been brought up, … they were emotionally disturbed and unbalanced”. Bamber also told Julie he had seen copies of his parents’ wills.
http://netk.net.au/UK/Bamber1.asp