The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.

[Brietta]

I am sure that 50 or so posts down I will find out what you are rabbiting about (not you Brietta, just folks in general).
Shutters of the type on 5A can be put in 3 main positions.

First, completely open. Not relevant?

Second, nearly closed.  You can let a little bit of air through.  You can let a little bit of light through.

Third, fully closed.  No light and no breeze.

As to what they were that night, I have no opinion.

Thanks for that information, Shining.

You are too kind about "rabbiting" though ... I've got a Master's in it.

[Brietta]

John has found the correct standing light source but this photo is taken outside the shutters at apartment 5A.



PHOTO BY PAT BROWN - FEBRUARY 2012

All it is PF is a photograph of a light shining on a shutter; as Misty has pointed out, there is illumination from the spotlight upsetting the light balance.

It most certainly does not in any way replicate what the appearance of the exterior of 5A would have looked like in 2007, so although an accurate depiction of the time it was taken, it is also an inaccurate and misleading one when discussing the lighting conditions in 2007.

[G-Unit]

That is possible, Brietta.
But the wind was blowing a good bit and the way the tree fonds are is rather like a weeping willow.  THey are long and suple and move with the wind .. rather distracting, I would have thought

Even more likely, if she is not imagining it, is thta as they drove along, and the eastern corner of identical Block 4 appeared in their lights.  Was the grey car in front of the identical appartment to 5A in block 4 ?[now named Casa Maria by the owners]


I certainly cannot imagine how she could have seen a car in front of 5A as they left block 6 car park.  Wall far too high and that's apart from the dense tree heads.

Dunno

Her name was Maria Manuela Martins da Silva and she said;

 After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;
She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn't yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;
. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;
. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-DE-SILVA.htm

They were parked south of block 6 opposite the Tapas entrance, so they turned right then left. Strange to have looked back.  A grey car was outside the McCann's window the morning after.

[G-Unit]

I had no idea whether that pic would attach. There is a view of the car park entrance on 4th May. The McCann's window is clearly to be seen, but you would have to look back.

[John]

As in every British village the locals take note of anything unusual such as cars parked where they normally wouldn't be.  This applies to holiday villages abroad and especially when there aren't many tourists around. People tend to forget that bustling holiday villages are also someone's home and they have excellent local knowledge of who is coming and going normally.

I am not surprised that this lady noticed the car parked in the gloom of the car park.



The grey car the next morning can be seen parked in the corner nearest apartment 5a.

[pathfinder73]

I am sure that 50 or so posts down I will find out what you are rabbiting about (not you Brietta, just folks in general).
Shutters of the type on 5A can be put in 3 main positions.

First, completely open. Not relevant?

Second, nearly closed.  You can let a little bit of air through.  You can let a little bit of light through.

Third, fully closed.  No light and no breeze.

As to what they were that night, I have no opinion.

"The outside blinds were closed with only two or three slats open." (GM 10 May)

"4078 'You weren't conscious of light coming through that window but the room was light enough for you to see into it''
 
Reply 'Yeah. I mean, the difficult thing about that is, when we talked about it afterwards, I agonised for whether it seemed as though there was light coming through the room. And I have to say my answer then was probably more accurate, in that, the room was lighter than I expected but I definitely didn't see the shutters up, the curtains were definitely not disturbed and the shutters would have had to have been completely up, I presume, not to get that sort of, because they were shutters that went solid but when you lifted them they had gaps of light, and I wasn't aware of that and it may well be that the light was just the source from behind'." (MO)

[misty]

"The outside blinds were closed with only two or three slats open." (GM 10 May)

"4078 'You weren't conscious of light coming through that window but the room was light enough for you to see into it''
 
Reply 'Yeah. I mean, the difficult thing about that is, when we talked about it afterwards, I agonised for whether it seemed as though there was light coming through the room. And I have to say my answer then was probably more accurate, in that, the room was lighter than I expected but I definitely didn't see the shutters up, the curtains were definitely not disturbed and the shutters would have had to have been completely up, I presume, not to get that sort of, because they were shutters that went solid but when you lifted them they had gaps of light, and I wasn't aware of that and it may well be that the light was just the source from behind'." (MO)

See John's reply #83 with photo showing streetlight beside car-park entrance.

[Brietta]

As in every British village the locals take note of anything unusual such as cars parked where they normally wouldn't be.  This applies to holiday villages abroad and especially when there aren't many tourists around. People tend to forget that bustling holiday villages are also someone's home and they have excellent local knowledge of who is coming and going normally.

I am not surprised that this lady noticed the car parked in the gloom of the car park.



The grey car the next morning can be seen parked in the corner nearest apartment 5a.

So what attracted her attention, the grey car or the light?

I take the point about locals taking in unusual events ... but how unusual would it be to take particular note of a vehicle in a car park which was in use by residents and visitors?

[John]

See John's reply #83 with photo showing streetlight beside car-park entrance.

We have to be careful here because although there is a streetlight adjacent to the car park entrance I have never seen a photo with it lit. On the evening of the 3rd May 2007 it could have been lit or then again it might have been faulty and unlit.

[pathfinder73]

See John's reply #83 with photo showing streetlight beside car-park entrance.

I posted the same light in my post #72.

[G-Unit]

So what attracted her attention, the grey car or the light?

I take the point about locals taking in unusual events ... but how unusual would it be to take particular note of a vehicle in a car park which was in use by residents and visitors?

I agree. A car parked there wouldn't been unusual. Neither would a vague glow in a window have been unusual. I can't think of any reason why her attention would have been attracted really. So why did she turn her head back and to the left to look into the car park when passing the entrance to block 5?

[John]

I agree. A car parked there wouldn't been unusual. Neither would a vague glow in a window have been unusual. I can't think of any reason why her attention would have been attracted really. So why did she turn her head back and to the left to look into the car park when passing the entrance to block 5?

To answer that question you have to have lived in such a resort.  Locals are always looking to see who is in residence and if there are any signs of residency.  Looking into the car park would not have been an odd thing to do.

[Carana]

To answer that question you have to have lived in such a resort.  Locals are always looking to see who is in residence and if there are any signs of residency.  Looking into the car park would not have been an odd thing to do.

I can understand that, to a certain extent. I wonder if she noticed those details because they were unusual, or because she didn't recall anything that would have seemed out of the ordinary?

For example, noticing lights where you don't expect any might seem unusual, or seeing no lights when you're used to seeing some might equally seem unusual.

I doubt that the grey car had anything to do with the disappearance, as it was there the next day, but was it ever identified? Was it ever checked on CCTV? Was anyone questioned as to whether it had gone out and come back that evening?

[John]

Thanks to Heriberto for this excellent photo taken in 2012 from just outside Mrs Fenn's apartment.  Snapped from a position immediately above 5a it clearly shows the two lamp standards to the east of the block.  Missing of course are the poor trees which would have created an almost impenetrable barrier to light for anything on the ground floor.

[ShiningInLuz]

Thanks to Heriberto for this excellent photo taken in 2012 from just outside Mrs Fenn's apartment.  Snapped from a position immediately above 5a it clearly shows the two lamp standards to the east of the block.  Missing of course are the poor trees which would have created an almost impenetrable barrier to light for anything on the ground floor.

The following info matters not a jot, given that the 'light reflecting on shutters' photo has been dated to years after the incident.

However, while the streetlight one can see in the photo is the one to the east of block 6, it is not the one casting the light on the shutter.  The streetlight east of block is (guestimate) 40m away.  The one near the block 6 car park entrance is 18m away.  Anyone positing that the reflected light is coming from a streetlight 40m away has to explain why there is nothing coming from the one 18m away.

The reflected light is from the one on the corner near the block 6 car park entrance.

Back on topic.  I can see nothing in the files that makes the front of block 5 a well-lit area, with the possible exception of Matthew's statement.  Others go for dark. There were two streetlights nearby, both around 18m away, both with light cut down by the trees.  See the 4 Mai 2007 photo for the trees.

Note.  While the trees interfere with the light level, they did not suppress the view at pedestrian or car level.  Essentially, you see 'under' the trees, both in and out.  That is also clear in the 4 Mai 2007 photo.

So, someone driving past the front of 5A could see 5A (and vice versa).

Whilst working out what Matthew did or did not see re light levels is something I fear will not be resolved before I'm dead and long past caring.

Please forget grey in grey car.  Sodium lights, well after dark, lights blocked by trees, no moon.  All anyone could see was light or dark.