The ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.

[John]

We have no way of knowing which of the several street lights were in fact lit on the night Madeleine vanished so I agree that arguing over it is academic.  There appears to be a consensus among members however to the effect that lighting levels were extremely poor in the corner of the car park adjacent to the front door of apartment 5a.  This factor alone would have compromised security and could have allowed an intruder to lurk in the shadows.

No doubt this is the reason Ocean Club Estates decided to remove the trees and fit a powerful floodlight above the front door of 5a.

[pathfinder73]

We have no way of knowing which of the several street lights were in fact lit on the night Madeleine vanished so I agree that arguing over it is academic.  There appears to be a consensus among members however to the effect that lighting levels were extremely poor in the corner of the car park adjacent to the front door of apartment 5a.  This factor alone would have compromised security and could have allowed an intruder to lurk in the shadows.

No doubt this is the reason Ocean Club Estates decided to remove the trees and fit a powerful floodlight above the front door of 5a.

But as you know there's no evidence of torches shining or people lurking in the shadows when they were going though that car park regularly. Matt was outside the shutters at 9. Jane was gone 10 minutes later then Matt, Russ then Jane, russ back at 9:45. If you were watching you would go to a safer spot. No evidence of anybody going through the window which was allegedly left open and raised shutters that nobody saw. In crime scene photos the shutters are nearly shut not raised and Dianne said she couldn't lift them from the outside.

[DCI]

We have no way of knowing which of the several street lights were in fact lit on the night Madeleine vanished so I agree that arguing over it is academic.  There appears to be a consensus among members however to the effect that lighting levels were extremely poor in the corner of the car park adjacent to the front door of apartment 5a.  This factor alone would have compromised security and could have allowed an intruder to lurk in the shadows.

No doubt this is the reason Ocean Club Estates decided to remove the trees and fit a powerful floodlight above the front door of 5a.

Not sure when this photo G U posted was taken, but no light lit by car park entrance, on it! The trees are still there.

[ShiningInLuz]

Not sure when this photo G U posted was taken, but no light lit by car park entrance, on it! The trees are still there.

You have the street light on the West corner of block 6, then on the other side the trees around block 5 car park, then a bright white light coming out of block 5 car park entrance (which I guess came from the floodlight that was installed after the incident), then a tree the other side of the car park entrance, then the streetlight, mainly blocked by the trees.

Go back to the 4 Mai 2007 photo and the streetlight is there.  However, the tree foliage is much less than in the image above.

[DCI]

You have the street light on the West corner of block 6, then on the other side the trees around block 5 car park, then a bright white light coming out of block 5 car park entrance (which I guess came from the floodlight that was installed after the incident), then a tree the other side of the car park entrance, then the streetlight, mainly blocked by the trees.

Go back to the 4 Mai 2007 photo and the streetlight is there.  However, the tree foliage is much less than in the image above.

Sorry Luz, I should have said, no light on outside 5A car park, across the road from the corner light. The night this photo was taken seems there wasn't a street light on. No reflection on the road or path. Perhaps the light was added when new one was put up at the back of the apartment.

[ShiningInLuz]

Sorry Luz, I should have said, no light on outside 5A car park, across the road from the corner light. The night this photo was taken seems there wasn't a street light on. No reflection on the road or path. Perhaps the light was added when new one was put up at the back of the apartment.

Sorry, you've lost me.

Looking as per the photo view, then on the ground all of the lights in that direction are on the left aka the south of the street.  You need to turn round to get a light on the north of the street.

If by new light you mean floodlight, it is on the front of the house, the car park side.

Am I getting confused?

[DCI]

Sorry, you've lost me.

Looking as per the photo view, then on the ground all of the lights in that direction are on the left aka the south of the street.  You need to turn round to get a light on the north of the street.

If by new light you mean floodlight, it is on the front of the house, the car park side.

Am I getting confused?

The street light was upgraded at the back near the steps of the apartment. If you cross the road from the street light in the photo, you reach the wall of 5A, further along you can see the car park entrance. This is where John thought there was a street light, that might not have been there in 2007.
I think Sadie had some info and photos of new lighting at the back. Hope she will confirm, if she comes on later.

[pathfinder73]

The street light was upgraded at the back near the steps of the apartment. If you cross the road from the street light in the photo, you reach the wall of 5A, further along you can see the car park entrance. This is where John thought there was a street light, that might not have been there in 2007.
I think Sadie had some info and photos of new lighting at the back. Hope she will confirm, if she comes on later.

That other light is on behind the tree past the car park entrance. What do you think that orange glow is?

[DCI]

That other light is on behind the tree past the car park entrance. What do you think that orange glow is?

A satsuma  *&*%£

[John]

As far as I am aware only the streetlight lanterns were upgraded some time after Madeleine disappeared and not the poles.

Ergo this lamppost was extant in May 2007 but possibly not lit.  The question which one can rightly ask is, was this lamppost not lit by design or by chance?

[John]

In fact, this picture previously posted by Pathfinder (I missed it earlier) depicted the scene on 4th May 2007 (day after Madeleine's disappearance) and though and behold there is a streetlight pole but with a round globe on it!

The tree branches are not at all dense so if this lamp was lit on the 3rd May there is no doubt that it would have been the primary light source on the shutters of 5a.  But was it lit???

[pathfinder73]

In fact, this picture previously posted by Pathfinder (I missed it earlier) depicted the scene on 4th May 2007 (day after Madeleine's disappearance) and though and behold there is a streetlight pole but with a round globe on it!

The tree branches are not at all dense so if this lamp was lit on the 3rd May there is no doubt that it would have been the primary light source on the shutters of 5a.  But was it lit???

4078 'Do you remember or can you recall what the street lighting was like around there''

Reply 'There's a street light, and this is all, erm, I couldn't sort of guarantee this, but my impression is that there was, the street lights were sort of very orangey, erm, sort of fairly orangey light, I think there was one at the top corner and maybe one about halfway up on the right as you came up from the Tapas Restaurant and possibly one on that, on that back bit behind the car park, someway further along'. (MO)

Yeah, the street lights were definitely on and I think it was, I think it was fairly dark by this time, because I think that’s why I was sort of thinking ‘Oh lets send Russell, send Russell back rather than’, well not, but, you know, I was sort of thinking ‘Oh I can’t be bothered to go up and check, I’m sure I can persuade Russell to go’, but then I decided to go myself, so.  So I think, I think it was, I think it was getting, it was dark”. (JT)

[lordpookles]

Are they shutters in question directly below the red circle? I think you would have to assume the light was lit unless you knew otherwise...

Its hard to judge the distance from that light to the shutters... photo has fisheye distortion...

[John]

Are they shutters in question directly below the red circle? I think you would have to assume the light was lit unless you knew otherwise...

Its hard to judge the distance from that light to the shutters... photo has fisheye distortion...

No, the children's bedroom window for 5a is the furthest left of those ground floor windows shown below.

[Carana]

As far as I am aware only the streetlight lanterns were upgraded some time after Madeleine disappeared and not the poles.

Ergo this lamppost was extant in May 2007 but possibly not lit.  The question which one can rightly ask is, was this lamppost not lit by design or by chance?

Hard to know... PdL had substantial works going on during that period. The street lamps were apparently replaced by more efficient ones at some point during this process. The original poles may have been retained, but were they functional at that time?