Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy

[Aiofe]

The one about the horse that could do sums  ? 

Xrist  ...  even the McCanns weren't desperate enough to cite that  as some sort of evidence against the cadaver dog that alerted in an apartment where a missing child was last seen

It would help if you read the thread rather than taking a scatter gun approach to anyone who disagrees with you.

I was referring to:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3078300/

"Our aim was to evaluate how human beliefs affect working dog outcomes in an applied environment. We asked whether beliefs of scent detection dog handlers affect team performance and evaluated relative importance of human versus dog influences on handlers’ beliefs. Eighteen drug and/or explosive detection dog/handler teams each completed two sets of four brief search scenarios (conditions). Handlers were falsely told that two conditions contained a paper marking scent location (human influence). Two conditions contained decoy scents (food/toy) to encourage dog interest in a false location (dog influence). Conditions were (1) control; (2) paper marker; (3) decoy scent; and (4) paper marker at decoy scent. No conditions contained drug or explosive scent; any alerting response was incorrect. A repeated measures analysis of variance was used with search condition as the independent variable and number of alerts as the dependent variable. Additional nonparametric tests compared human and dog influence. There were 225 incorrect responses, with no differences in mean responses across conditions. Response patterns differed by condition. There were more correct (no alert responses) searches in conditions without markers. Within marked conditions, handlers reported that dogs alerted more at marked locations than other locations. Handlers’ beliefs that scent was present potentiated handler identification of detection dog alerts. Human more than dog influences affected alert locations. This confirms that handler beliefs affect outcomes of scent detection dog deployments."

[AnneGuedes]

Prof Harrison MBE and Mr Grime are experts and sufficiently aware of the Rosenthal effect to avoid it.
http://www.freep.com/article/20121004/NEWS01/310040204/

[Redblossom]

If the dogs are as unreliable as you suggest,  why were they paid more than a Chief of police   ? 

Indeed,  why would they be used at  ALL   ? 

The dogs' evidence  (  and it IS evidence, regardless of there being no conclusive forensic material found  )   has always been,  and remains, the biggest thorn in the McCanns' side

Exactly, thats why so many people have been going apesh** trying to discredit them.....not just forum postera but the mccanns, their lawyers, their other cronies in tv and radio, almost as disgusting as discrediting a rape victim....they have miserably failed for the last five years, still, their time lost.....

[Aiofe]

Prof Harrison MBE and Mr Grime are experts and sufficiently aware of the Rosenthal effect to avoid it.
http://www.freep.com/article/20121004/NEWS01/310040204/

Your statement is unsupported and does nothing to counter the scientific findings.

The case you cite does not confirm the detection of a cadaver as no body was ever found and the case is going to appeal.

You really need to address why the dogs in the experiment alerted one time in three to no scent when their handlers believed there to be scent there.

[AnneGuedes]

Your statement is unsupported and does nothing to counter the scientific findings.

I reckon I respect more the British institutions than you do !

[Aiofe]

I reckon I respect more the British institutions than you do !

That has nothing to do with the argument.

How do you account for the dogs in the experiment reacting where their handlers expected them to react?

[Redblossom]

That has nothing to do with the argument.

How do you account for the dogs in the experiment reacting where their handlers expected them to react?

Id give it up if I were you Aiofe, we have had  the dog discussions here for a year plus, covered so many angles, nothing you  posted is relevant.....or changes anything....dont try so hard, it wont work because, simply, it cannot....

[AnneGuedes]

I respect Prof Harrison MBE, who advised to send for these particular dogs and supervised the whole operation.
http://library.npia.police.uk/docs/J_Homicide_MII/J_Homicide_4.2.pdf

[Benice]

Id give it up if I were you Aiofe, we have had  the dog discussions here for a year plus, covered so many angles, nothing you  posted is relevant.....or changes anything....dont try so hard, it wont work because, simply, it cannot....

I disagree Red.  There are still a lot of people out there who think that  'dogs don't lie.  And that's because they are not aware of all the relevant information there is about them.     The more this information is made public the better IMO. 

Dogs do lie and give false alerts when they are influenced by the beliefs of the handlers.  And that is a proven fact.

[Redblossom]

I disagree Red.  There are still a lot of people out there who think that  'dogs don't lie.  And that's because they are not aware of all the relevant information there is about them.     The more this information is made public the better IMO. 

Dogs do lie and give false alerts when they are influenced by the beliefs of the handlers.  And that is a proven fact.

oh dear Benice i have heard and readand anlysed it all,you will just have to go round the mulberry bush  again because I am certainly not going to.....and that is NOT bias...its informed decision ta

[Benice]

oh dear Benice i have heard and readand anlysed it all,you will just have to go round the mulberry bush  again because I am certainly not going to.....and that is NOT bias...its informed decision ta

That's Ok Red  - I'm not asking you to.  I was just explaining why I disagree with your opinion that Aiofe's posts are not relevant. 

[Redblossom]

That's Ok Red  - I'm not asking you to.  I was just explaining why I disagree with your opinion that Aiofe's posts are not relevant.

Aiofe is concentrating on how and when and why dogs might be wrong...unbalanced IMO....and biased so obviously.....its utterly boring now

Its like chinese death by  a thousand cuts...No need for it..police use them all the time and get great results...they dont need some forum poster or some scientist alledgedly or GerryMccann  to tell them they shouldnt bother.........LOL see ya

Oh eta

Lets not forget Gerrys little PORKIE... It was HIM who asked thecadaver dogs to bebrought in
 
If youcant see through that LIE benice well I dont know......

[AnneGuedes]

The purpose here, I'm afraid, is to mix in the same bag amateur handlers and professional ones in order to discredit the seconds thanks to the errors of the first.
Old trick.
Mr Grime would certainly not work for the FBI if his dogs weren't reliable. His reputation depends on the accuracy of his dogs. The money issue follows.

[Benice]

The purpose here, I'm afraid, is to mix in the same bag amateur handlers and professional ones in order to discredit the seconds thanks to the errors of the first.
Old trick.
Mr Grime would certainly not work for the FBI if his dogs weren't reliable. His reputation depends on the accuracy of his dogs. The money issue follows.

There is no doubt that his dogs are brilliant - as are all sniffer dogs IMO -  but M. Grime is human and therefore not 'error-proof'.
 

[Benice]

Aiofe is concentrating on how and when and why dogs might be wrong...unbalanced IMO....and biased so obviously.....its utterly boring now

Its like chinese death by  a thousand cuts...No need for it..police use them all the time and get great results...they dont need some forum poster or some scientist alledgedly or GerryMccann  to tell them they shouldnt bother.........LOL see ya

Oh eta

Lets not forget Gerrys little PORKIE... It was HIM who asked thecadaver dogs to bebrought in
 
If youcant see through that LIE benice well I dont know......

Why would he lie about something that could so easily be disproved?  That makes no sense.  We don't know the circumstances of when he made that request.   For all we know it could have been in a conversation about the dogs with a FLO officer.  Who knows?       I think it's wrong to jump to conclusions when we don't know all the facts.    Has anyone in the PJ or the UK police claimed he lied?